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Vertinox
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Posted - 2009.07.13 14:31:00 -
[1]
I'm a new player to Eve and when I heard this game had corporations that could sell stocks, I thought it would be interesting to try out as well as play the space sim part of it.
To be befuddlement, I could not find a way to buy shares of corps and people would usually reply "Why would what to own shares of a corp you don't belong to?" and "You have to have the CEO send you the shares directly."
Now that is nothing like how the real stock market ever really worked. I don't have to call Microsoft up and ask them to sell me shares. I mean you can, but you go through a broker on the open market to get the best deal.
Now Eve already has a stock market for goods. People can put buy and sell orders (ask and bid) and that usually determines the current price just like the real stock market.
Now why can they take that a bit further and make it so that a corporation can sell its shares on the open market rather than going through the rigmarole of having to troll the forums asking for the CEO how much he is willing to sell you a share for.
That and you have no idea of what other people are willing to pay for it.
So all CCP would have to do is add shares as a market item and that you could see the bid and ask price and maybe a last tranaction price to see what the current share is at.
They should also automate the dividend process a bit more so that a CEO can set his shares to give a % dividend of the corps profit either one a day, once a week, or once a month without having to interact.
He could of course change this rate and frequency at risk of having the share holders dump shares etc etc.
Has this been mentioned before and does CCP plan of fleshing out the whole stock market instead of having direct trades?
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 14:39:00 -
[2]
the only issue with public stock exchanges in game is the fact that the majority of the servers population leans towards scamming each other and dummy corps would flood the exchange if you have a idea to work around that... tell us!
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Vertinox
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Posted - 2009.07.13 14:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vertinox on 13/07/2009 14:53:02
 Originally by: Zarak1 Kenpach1
the only issue with public stock exchanges in game is the fact that the majority of the servers population leans towards scamming each other and dummy corps would flood the exchange if you have a idea to work around that... tell us!
And half the real world Pink Sheet penny stocks aren't scams? ;)
If I were CCP, I'd allow corporations to become a full public traded corporation by letting the game fully disclose their assets and members on their detail page.
You could still scam, but its not like the SEC prevents people like Madoff in the real world, but it would be better than it is now.
I'd still let corporations remain private if they want and hide their assets, but for someone to have their shares traded on the open market, they would have to check the option for full disclosure.
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration
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Posted - 2009.07.13 15:05:00 -
[4]
Just what we needed, another way for the Goons to screw the blinking newbies out of their hard-earned ISK.
The real stock market today is a casino and the banks have been treating it that way for a long time.
A stock market in New Eden would be an exercise in crazy.
The reason banks [up to a point] and the stock exchange [again, up to a point] work is because of the underlying assumption of trust in the system. The very design of EVE is anathema to the notion of trust. The only thing you could guarantee in the New Eden Stock Exchange [NESE] is that people would use it to scam.
Your idea, on the surface, is laudable, but it shows your inexperience with the EVE universe. If trust is what you seek you came to the wrong place.
The Pink Sheets are like the boy scouts when compared to this place. EVE is a zoo and the animals are hungry all the time.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Vertinox
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Posted - 2009.07.13 15:15:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Vertinox on 13/07/2009 15:15:32
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
Just what we needed, another way for the Goons to screw the blinking newbies out of their hard-earned ISK.
No one is forcing anyone to buy stocks in this instance and you should always have a buyer beware, but I think the key problem with the current stock system is that it lacks transparency.
No one knows if a corporation is owned by a fly by night alt with 1 isk to his name (which he stole) or a corporation with 1,000 members who keep to their word.
If CCP could make a NESE that in order to listed you have to meet transparency requirements of income and holdings, you know what you are getting into.
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration
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Posted - 2009.07.13 22:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vertinox
Edited by: Vertinox on 13/07/2009 15:15:32
If CCP could make a NESE that in order to listed you have to meet transparency requirements of income and holdings, you know what you are getting into.
Even in the real world, that frivolous grown-up fiction, they can't get stock exchange oversight that's worth a damn. You're going to want someone to provide oversight over an entire dynamic system where everybody with a cunning plan is going to try to find the hole. I don't believe it for a second. Trillions of ISK would be sunk into it. Money enough that somebody is going to want some heavy duty auditing. Who is going to do that? The players? CCP? Ernst & Young?
If CCP pulled that one off, they'd be bought by some shyster in Wall Street [or the Chinese equivalent] to get hold of the IP, because that's would be something that has real value to the outside world.
I wouldn't hold my breath for an EVE stock exchange. The very idea of openness about ones books would make any serious alliance a big fat target for anyone interested to get hold of that money Mittani-style.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 02:21:00 -
[7]
i agree with you the shares systems in terms of public trading feels incomplete. however, i dont think it was intended to truly be a publicly traded event rather give the ceo the capability to give members of his corp a say in the politics of the corporation in terms of who is the CEO and war decs.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.15 02:56:00 -
[8]
I'd like to see a change in the corporate interface where just 1 share in a corporation just let you see so much of the operations and where you can post offers on the stock exchange to buy back shares lost to the corporations with parting shareholders.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:12:00 -
[9]
Yeah, that is the reason the stock market in eve never came to fruition. There can be no accountability. For it to work, you would only be able to sell shares for a portion of what your companies asset is. Any growth, would mean an automatic growth in the value of your share. Sale of item would be you would get your percentage automatically. For the most part it would prevent scamming, except that then you get to intercorp transfers, meaning that you would always need to keep enough asset on hand to pay back shareholders. Programming would get quite complex to keep value of all items, etc. Money lost for shareholders, ie the risk would come from failed business ventures, such as loss of ships, bills, dividend payouts, etc. I can see it working without scams, just too complex of program.
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:29:00 -
[10]
markus, theres one critical flaw with the system you have conceived right off the bat. IRL stock exhanges very loosely use assets as a way of placing value on a stock. last time i checked (i do a good deal of trading so i know a thing or two about the stock exchange btw), the value of the stock is what a person is willing to pay for it and what a seller is willing to take to part with it.
lets look at shady headliner Enron for example. was it worth the price of the stock 90days prior to the whole fiasco? no! but no one knew that so the publics faith in the corp had not been shattered. price reflects a great deal many things markus. i'd have to say assets is a factor but making system where you govern the price by this and this alone would not work out.
former bob corps for example would have berkshire hathaway level prices for all those t2 bpos they have. but, would you care to invest in a corp that just got beat? so how much is it really worth then? see? oh btw berkshire hathaway is a great IRL example of a corp that would be priced way lower than it really is if its price was govern by the rules you describe Markus. Even tho Warren Buffet has kept the corporations labor pool below 3000 people the stock price is something ridiculous i can't remember i think some of the shares for about 10g's or more.
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