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Dev Blog: FW LP Store heavily exploitable?

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Mystafyre Caldari V I R I I Cult of War	Posted - 2009.07.13 17:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Mystafyre on 13/07/2009 18:01:19 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=671 Quite awesome. I might get a FW alt or two for some ISK farming Example, alt in amarr militia and another in minmatar militia. Minmatar alt is flying insured t1 battleship (if you build them, loss is minimal), without fittings, Amarr alt is flying something ganky. All is done in few seconds, in safespot perhaps and ka-ching! How is CCP going to prevent this from happening?
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity YARRR and CO	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:05:00 - [2] your killmails are stored.. so they can penalize killing the same guy multiple times in a row. Put in space whales!
Mystafyre Caldari V I R I I Cult of War	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Morel Nova your killmails are stored.. so they can penalize killing the same guy multiple times in a row. But what if some guy is wasted and gets killed like dozen times in a row to same fleet? I see lot's of problems with this, and with the fact that how much this is, or is it, taking dev time from fixing the FW lag? I have tried FW few times since it arrived and to be honest even in Great Wildlands lag is minimal compared to FW fighting. Of course it's nice to get new content in game and with a quick look there is few really nice stuff in that store, but still I think many would like to get word on that lag issue from CCP. FW is good for casual players and they deserve to get same quality of play than in 0.0 is getting for small 30 vs 30 fights.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:25:00 - [4] Have you tried the preliminary FW lag fix they released? I'm not sure but it might be helping... --- WOLFY is recruiting!
Gallente SoldierTest	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Mystafyre Edited by: Mystafyre on 13/07/2009 18:01:19 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=671 Quite awesome. I might get a FW alt or two for some ISK farming Example, alt in amarr militia and another in minmatar militia. Minmatar alt is flying insured t1 battleship (if you build them, loss is minimal), without fittings, Amarr alt is flying something ganky. All is done in few seconds, in safespot perhaps and ka-ching! How is CCP going to prevent this from happening? At best you're pulling 1000 LP per kill that way. Tough to make a profit on that.
Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:40:00 - [6] You heard it here first: Killing an enemy TITAN, all by your lonesome, flown by a max-rank enemy commander... ... not enough to earn you a set of high-grade implants. /me coughs. Great rewards - but I don't envy anyone running those miserable Facwar missions to get them. PvP kills for those LP amounts won't get you a wooden nickel, especially in a fleet fight.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:46:00 - [7] No gallente navy damage control Higher sensor strength implants, eat that caldari. (If FW lag indeed stays in reasonable levels so i dont get podded all the time).
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:51:00 - [8] Quote: 4. High-grade navy implant sets (available for all FW militias): Total set effects: +3 to all character attributes, +75% racial sensor strength Total set requirements: 121,000 LP, 121m ISK, 5x +3 implants, 1x hardwiring - zainou 'gypsy' KLB-50 That'll be farmed to hell and back. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:04:00 - [9] Neato - all you have to do is be on grid. Don't have to do any damage or even be visible. In other news, the price of Covert Ops ships spiked, seconded only by the number of pilots following fleets around in noobships....
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon In other news, the price of Covert Ops ships spiked, seconded only by the number of pilots following fleets around in noobships.... Look at it this way, Fried: how many FW n00bs will think they got the FW loot "for free" and will sell it below cost on contracts to us? *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Neato - all you have to do is be on grid. Don't have to do any damage or even be visible. In other news, the price of Covert Ops ships spiked, seconded only by the number of pilots following fleets around in noobships.... You did notice the bit about being fleeted and on grid? --- WOLFY is recruiting!
Menerai Entaro	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Guillame Herschel That'll be farmed to hell and back. Thats a good thing... more FW targets!
Mystafyre Caldari V I R I I Cult of War	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Mystafyre on 13/07/2009 20:19:48 Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Neato - all you have to do is be on grid. Don't have to do any damage or even be visible. In other news, the price of Covert Ops ships spiked, seconded only by the number of pilots following fleets around in noobships.... You did notice the bit about being fleeted and on grid? In fleet, in grid and sitting cloaked
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Raimo Have you tried the preliminary FW lag fix they released? I'm not sure but it might be helping... Woot?!
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:44:00 - [15] Edited by: chatgris on 13/07/2009 20:44:14 Originally by: Mystafyre Edited by: Mystafyre on 13/07/2009 18:01:19 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=671 Quite awesome. I might get a FW alt or two for some ISK farming Example, alt in amarr militia and another in minmatar militia. Minmatar alt is flying insured t1 battleship (if you build them, loss is minimal), without fittings, Amarr alt is flying something ganky. All is done in few seconds, in safespot perhaps and ka-ching! How is CCP going to prevent this from happening? By making the reward worth less than the cost to produce it in that manner! Ta da.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:50:00 - [16] It will take forever and a day to get enough LP for anything worthwhile. Only option is to run the pointless missions if LP is your goal, and that case you will make a lot more money running regular missions since fatality rate in FW missions is rather high to start with. I actually think that the ISK made with your idea wouldn't even cover the rental costs for the manufacturing lines you will need to build the BS in the first place
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida It will take forever and a day to get enough LP for anything worthwhile. Only option is to run the pointless missions if LP is your goal, and that case you will make a lot more money running regular missions since fatality rate in FW missions is rather high to start with. I actually think that the ISK made with your idea wouldn't even cover the rental costs for the manufacturing lines you will need to build the BS in the first place Yes, it appears this will be a bit under par IMHO unless they do something to also make missions "worthwhile" no one will ever get enough LP's to actually get anything worthwhile. Unless they do something to boost the FW missions then it appears regular high sec missions will still pay out better in the long run. I'm not a big mission fan, but it really does suck that FW is such a dam ISK sink with no real way to recover that ISk but going to high sec and doing the grind. IMO the whole risk vs reward is just not there on the FW mission side. You are taking much more risk than high sec missioners and get less reward.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:30:00 - [18] Sure, if you have that little of a social life.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.13 23:20:00 - [19] You can calculate any scenario with any ship, the lp payments are simply too low to be exploitable (unless you call things like popping your ibis again and again in order to get the free piece of 1 titanium each time, an exploit). CCP should have brought different kind of rewards for kills. A medal or some other non-monetary things, that caters the roleplaying character of FW.
Ronin Reborn Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.07.14 00:07:00 - [20] Except the majority of people (I know) aren't into FW for roleplay, but for a good time. Doesn't mean you can't do both blahblahblah but I don't see anyone regularly roleplaying in my chat channels either. Anyways Caldari get PDUs (those WILL sell, think of the Raven pilots ffs) and shield extenders (honestly, I think the Matari win here) Gallente get armor plates (not bad, amarr maybe better) and omnidrone links (hells yeah!) Matari get Target Painters (lol really, I'll get 2 for my golem tho ) and shield extenders (better imo) Amarr get Energy Xfers (maybe guardian pilots will eat these up, not a bad mod imo) and armor plates (really a toss up with the gal ones) The drones all seem meh, the MAPCs nice but they would go on pimp frigs (limited usage), and the implant sets are unfarmable not because of LP being hard to farm or missions sucking or w/e but because... Everyone is going to want FW cap charges. 25% longer tankability, 25% more charges in your hold. 5 800s in an electrochem, 6 in a T2. 2000 lp isn't much, 2m isk as a baseprice isn't bad. And people pay a much higher % premium when the total cost is low. FW cap charges will be the new faction ammo imo. Like 200k isk a charge? People will pay that imo. Regardless of how crap the system might be I do think there are exactly 2 things that will have demand worth farming for. Caldari PDUs and fw cap charges.
BacardiDesire Caldari The 8th Order	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:41:00 - [21] the gallente get in general all the good stuff im gonna love the Gallente navy plates with 30% less mass addition all i want is some cake.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:04:00 - [22] We get some nice stuff, but others also definately get nice stuff. For example the amarr navy plates may be worse than ours because ours cost less mass, but it is also possible the less cpu cost means you can switch anp for eanm and your setup suddenly becomes much better. And cap boosters will probably set the baseline isk/LP thingie for FW rewards, just like faction ammo for the normal corporations.
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Ronin Reborn Everyone is going to want FW cap charges. 25% longer tankability, 25% more charges in your hold. 5 800s in an electrochem, 6 in a T2. I know, it's amazing
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:17:00 - [24] Edited by: X Gallentius on 14/07/2009 16:17:27 Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Unless they do something to boost the FW missions then it appears regular high sec missions will still pay out better in the long run. I'm not a big mission fan, but it really does suck that FW is such a dam ISK sink with no real way to recover that ISk but going to high sec and doing the grind. Here's the small bone everybody has been asked for. Open FW mission, get into a fight in plex, collect lp rewards. Fights + Income. Nirvana! Plus hundreds of noobs will be loading up on FW missions in August; so lots of easy kills (even more isk).
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:39:00 - [25] Originally by: X Gallentius Here's the small bone everybody has been asked for. Open FW mission, get into a fight in plex, collect lp rewards. Fights + Income. Nirvana! Tried that back when things still had the new car smell about it and I still got combat shakes. Problem is that missions are usually deep behind frontlines which also just happen to be the rallying points for the enemy gangs/fleets/blobs. Anything but Lvl 1 FW missions are near suicide due to this fact, but if the LP rewards were bumped appropriately the losses might be worth it in the long run. By the way, a remark on topic. In the official feedback thread I posted a tally of all my FW kills to date (1900+ assorted kills). I would have received just shy of 250k LP before Rank modifier assuming every kill was a solo kill .. there is no potential exploit here, nor any real reward -> which leads back to the missions :)
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Originally by: X Gallentius Problem is that missions are usually deep behind frontlines which also just happen to be the rallying points for the enemy gangs/fleets/blobs. Anything but Lvl 1 FW missions are near suicide due to this fact, but if the LP rewards were bumped appropriately the losses might be worth it in the long run. The only real issue I had with FW missions was that my standings got hammered for not completing one - which due to reasons you list above were more often than other missions. The massive number of jumps sucked too, but that's there to encourage pvp interaction between militias, so... If isk is the only thing you're looking then other methods are easier.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Ronin Reborn Everyone is going to want FW cap charges. 25% longer tankability, 25% more charges in your hold. 5 800s in an electrochem, 6 in a T2. 2000 lp isn't much, 2m isk as a baseprice isn't bad. And people pay a much higher % premium when the total cost is low. FW cap charges will be the new faction ammo imo. Like 200k isk a charge? People will pay that imo. Hmm, considering faction ammo being more or less standard, prices of the usable t2 ammo, boosters and nanite paste, I'd say 200k is definitely gonna get paid, its not like 4mill for a BS cargo hold full of charges is all that much in comparison.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.15 03:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon You heard it here first: Killing an enemy TITAN, all by your lonesome, flown by a max-rank enemy commander... ... not enough to earn you a set of high-grade implants. /me coughs. Great rewards - but I don't envy anyone running those miserable Facwar missions to get them. PvP kills for those LP amounts won't get you a wooden nickel, especially in a fleet fight. I agree, killing a Titan should give you 1.400.000 instead of 14.000 Killing a Titan is ridiculous hard, as it should be. Anywya, it is good seeing some love for FW.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: Morel Nova your killmails are stored.. so they can penalize killing the same guy multiple times in a row. But what if some guy is wasted and gets killed like dozen times in a row to same fleet? I see lot's of problems with this, and with the fact that how much this is, or is it, taking dev time from fixing the FW lag? I have tried FW few times since it arrived and to be honest even in Great Wildlands lag is minimal compared to FW fighting. Of course it's nice to get new content in game and with a quick look there is few really nice stuff in that store, but still I think many would like to get word on that lag issue from CCP. FW is good for casual players and they deserve to get same quality of play than in 0.0 is getting for small 30 vs 30 fights. I think it will be pretty obvious if they look on their database and see that both characters have the same account name or credit card number. Still, I expect this practice to be rampant to begin with, until people start submitting petitions calling shenanigans, and then people will start having their LPs taken away, or getting temporary bans, and then the practice will die off.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Neato - all you have to do is be on grid. Don't have to do any damage or even be visible. In other news, the price of Covert Ops ships spiked, seconded only by the number of pilots following fleets around in noobships.... You did notice the bit about being fleeted and on grid? I also think you will have to do something offensive too, like jam the target. You don't get on killmails by sitting cloaked on grid and in fleet, and I'll expect this will be registered in the same way. Besides, anyone who sits cloaked in fleets while other people are taking all the risks is quickly going to get a reputation, and that will only prove damaging to the militia as a whole.

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