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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:46:43 Introduction:
There has been a lot of talk on the official EVE forums about a special technique allowing skilled probe scanners to probe a ship without the victim ever knowing it. However, nobody would share the actual technique in details, until now. I have found how to do it on my own, and it works! It's not an exploit, it's just very clever use of the available tools. Some of you might have been using this technique in more or less the same way for years, but I'm sure many players don't know this can be done, so I've decided to share it with everyone. If you see anythning that is incorrect or should be clarified, don't be afraid to post a reply.
Minimum requirements:
- 1x Covert Ops ship - 1x Expanded Core Probe Launcher - 4x Combat Scanner Probe - 1x Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
What I use to probe right now: (Copy to clipboard to import in EFT)
[Cheetah, Sentry Scout] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Co-Processor II
1MN Afterburner II Kapteyn Sensor Array Inhibitor I Kapteyn Sensor Array Inhibitor I [empty med slot]
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Salvager I
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
The technique:
The technique basically involves pinpointing the direction and range of a target ship using only the directional scanner. Then with the use of the Minimap Browser (F11) to see which way your scanner is pointing, it is possible to launch 4 probes dead on the area where the target ship should be, and possibly get a 100% hit on the first scan. You can then right-click-bookmark the target, and immediately recall your probes. Doing so means that even if the target ship keeps pressing the Scan button on his directional scanner to detect incoming probes, he won't see them for more than 5 seconds or so, and you still have a warpable bookmark to that target.
Some tips & facts to know before we start:
- 1 AU ~= 150,000,000km
- The directional scanner has a max range of around 14 AU, meaning you can theoretically, at a 360¦ angle, cover a sphere with a diameter of a maximum of 32 AU.
- It is possible to move all probes at once by holding the SHIFT key while you drag them. You can also change the range of all probes the same way. (this is a big time saver).
Step by step procedure:
Preparation (things to do before you can start scanning):
- Considering the maximum scan range of the directional scanner, begin by creating multiple safe spots in the system you want to probe in, so that you're always within range of potential targets. Most targets will be near known celestials, but you may also want to scan for mission runners in deadspace or at complexes for example.
- Create an overview tab (if not done already) showing only ships.
- Open your directional scanner, and check the box "Use overview settings". That will eliminate a lot of the junk you don't want to see.
- In the range box, type in all 9's and tab out, the range will automatically set itself to the maximum. Then set the angle to 360¦
- You are now ready to start scanning in this system.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:38:20 Now the fun starts...
- Step 1: Warp to one of the safe spots you created previously.
- Step 2: Set your speed to max speed and launch 4 probes.
- Step 3: Cloak your ship.
- Step 4: Press F10, then CTRL-F11 to open the solar system map and the scanner window. Select the first tab so you can control your probes.
- Step 5: Shift-drag all the probes away from you, as far as possible outside the solar system you're in, then hit the Analyze button to have the probes warp. This will allow to stay cloaked while your probes are ready to be used, and keep them outside the directional scanner range of any ship in the system. Close the Solar System map (F10).
- Step 6: Click on your directional scanner tab, and do a scan. If there are no suitable targets in range, just warp to another one of your safe spots and scan again. Do so until you find a good target. You could also move 4 probes at the four corners of the solar system, set them to 64 AU and arrange them so their intersection covers most of the area, and get a rough idea of where potential targets could be. That may save you some time. Just remember to move your probes out of the way again afterward so nobody sees them on scanner while you scan with the directional scanner.
- Step 7: That's when the tricky part starts. You now have to keep scanning while reducing the angle and adjusting the camera until you can tell precisely which direction the ship is located at using the minimum scan angle. This may take some time depending how good you are.
- Step 8: Now that you know the direction, you have to find the range. Start with 75,000,000km (0.5 AU), and work your way up, in increments of 75,000,000km until you first see the target again in the scan results. Note the range down, and DO NOT MOVE THE CAMERA!
- Step 9: Now that we have the direction, and the range, it's time to probe. Open the solar system map (F10), and the Minimap Browser (F11). You now have to orient the Solar System map the same way the minimap browser version is. Use the red circle (you) on the minimap browser and the "You are here" label in the Solar System map as a reference. Make sure you're viewing the Solar System map from the top (move the camera until it locks).
- Step 10: Now, it's a bit tricky to do right, but you have to look at the scan vector of your ship in the minimap browser to see which way you were pointing at, and locate that vector on the Solar System map the best you can.
- Step 11: Drag your probes in that direction, and use the range spheres of the probes themselves as a sort of ruler to set the proper distance from your ship. (i.e. if range was 3 AU, use a probe you set to 1 AU and one to 2 AU, and line their spheres up one after the other, then drop a 3rd probe on the edge of the last probe's sphere).
- Step 12: Set the range of your probes to 1 AU and arrange them in a diamond shape so that the intersecting section of all probes overlaps the area the target ship is supposed to be at. You may be able to use a larger range and place the probes further apart if you have good enough skills to get a 100% hit at that range, depending on the sig radius of the target ship (the higher the sig radius, the less precision you need with your probes to lock it).
- Step 13: Hit the Analyze button, and if your lucky, a few seconds later, you'll get a 100% hit!
- Step 14: If you don't, hurry up and move your probes a little and scan again until you do. If you do, bookmark your target and recall your probes right-away!
- Step 15: (...)
- Step 15: PROFIT!
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:40:00 -
[3]
Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
So I got it right or you are doing some of the things I list differently?
And thanks for the link, very useful indeed.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sniper Wolf18 on 15/07/2009 15:45:01
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
So I got it right or you are doing some of the things I list differently?
And thanks for the link, very useful indeed.
I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter.
EDIT: Typo And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:53:13
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker 1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
That's why I thought it would be faster to use rounded up values. Easier to remember too.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
I haven't tried, i will try later on, though i would assume it is for me atleast (i suck horribly at maths and would have a hard time adding 75,000,000km together more than 3 times. And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
It would take the same amount of time, but it has the benefit that if someone warps away during the process you'll notice immediately (since they're not there, then you check the previous range and see that they're not there either) whereas if you're stepping up, you won't notice until you work right up to maximum range and see they're no longer there.
Of course the absolute quickest way to sort this out is binary search, but if you're just trying to get someone's range to 1AU I'm not convinced the added complexity is worth the few seconds it would save you.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:14:00 -
[10]
Nice job Kaylan! Might I suggest you also post this on the EVElopedia? This is a good guide for it.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Nice job Kaylan! Might I suggest you also post this on the EVElopedia? This is a good guide for it.
I will wait to get a bit more feedback before I do so, just so I can make sure everything I covered is perfect and as complete as possible, then I will. Thanks for the support :)
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Valeronx
Celestial Horizon Corp. Slightly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Valeronx on 15/07/2009 16:43:21 It's a very nice guide. Thanks Kaylan !
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:50:00 -
[13]
ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Aesheera
Amarr Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
ITT: elitists can be missed from instructive threads. This helps some people. Post constructive or royally bugger off to your nest of goons.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 17:05:40
Originally by: An Anarchyyt ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
It's exactly because of people like you (who think everybody knows what you know so there's no need to explain anything) that a lot of players do not know this at all. Nobody wanted to share this in a concise guide and kept it a secret, which has caused a lot of unfounded whine threads about how the scanner is overpowered. This guide is obviously not for the ones who already know this, although I would appreciate experienced players using this technique already to share their own methods and possibly correct me in some places.
As far as my low slots, well, I don't see what else I could fit in there that would make my Cheetah a better Scout, so if you have any suggestions, speak, but if all you can do is laugh, then you can go post in another thread.
Please do not pollute this thread with that kind of comment.
Thanks.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:11:00 -
[16]
It's a good guide. But it does kinda suggest that some people are attempting to probe ships out without first finding direction and range using the scanner...
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gypsio III It's a good guide. But it does kinda suggest that some people are attempting to probe ships out without first finding direction and range using the scanner...
Yup, most new players I know never used the directional scanner in that manner (me first). There was no mention of this technique anywhere in the known EVElopedia, EVE Wiki or ingame tutorials, and I haven't seen any other guide explaining it in that much details. Unless someone learned this from another experienced corp member, or found it out on his own, there was no obvious way to learn this.
EVE Online has a very high learning curve, but sometimes all it takes is a little nudge from more experienced players to make it lower. Unfortunately, a lot of veteran players seem to think that this nudge should be "earned" somehow, and keep advanced techniques inside their "elite" circle as if newer players were too stupid or unworthy to know them.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Faife
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:24:57 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
percentages wise: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647 (you get that by holding down 9), second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 probes, 1 exactly at spot at 1au range, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
this algorithm is called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
- -
having said that, if you're not worried about them spamming 'scan' to find the probes, it's usually faster to just scan the system using probes the all probe way. this applies to things like fleets that already know you're scanning, or logged out ships. -- Check out my EVE cartoons |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/07/2009 17:26:24
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Yup, most new players I know never used the directional scanner in that manner (me first). There was no mention of this technique anywhere in the known EVElopedia, EVE Wiki or ingame tutorials, and I haven't seen any other guide explaining it in that much details. Unless someone learned this from another experienced corp member, or found it out on his own, there was no obvious way to learn this.
I understand what you're trying to say. But people learn how to use the directional scanner before they learn how to probe - knowledge of the directional scanner is one of the absolutely fundamental, essential skills in the game. So by the time a player gets to probing, he knows how to use the directional scanner, and the insight required to figure out how to use the scanner to assist probing is almost nonexistent.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:21:29 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
example: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647, second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 drones, 1 exactly at spot at 1au, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
it's called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
Nice! Very nice! I'll work on the phrasing and include this in my guide.
I also thought about using 5 probes, where the center one has a higher range than the other 4 (sphere overlaps all other probes) in case you were just a little off. I will include this in my guide as well.
Thanks for contributing!
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:53:13
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker 1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
That's why I thought it would be faster to use rounded up values. Easier to remember too.
The mathematically faster way would be to do a newtonian bipartition search. You found at max range.. then try at HALF that. If you found.. Try at half of this last range.. if not.. try at current range plus half etc...
This changes the number of iteration from a complexity o(n) into a o(log(n)).
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 18:17:00 -
[22]
Get good with teh scanner first.
Its the biggest PVP tool available because more likely than not, your target is already at a warpable place (belt, moon, station) and you just need to find where. With the scanner, you can find out in little to no time.
So, before you even launch probes, see if you can find the sucker with yoru scanner. If he's at a safe, THEN launch probes. ----------------- Friends Forever |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:24:57 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
percentages wise: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647 (you get that by holding down 9), second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 probes, 1 exactly at spot at 1au range, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
this algorithm is called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
- -
having said that, if you're not worried about them spamming 'scan' to find the probes, it's usually faster to just scan the system using probes the all probe way. this applies to things like fleets that already know you're scanning, or logged out ships.
This is what I've always done. I didn't know it was called a binary search, just seemed the most logical way to sort the range lol. But yeah, cut the range in half each time, going up or down depending on if you lose the target if you go too low (short) with your adjustment.
Good job explaining Faife.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: murder one This is what I've always done. I didn't know it was called a binary search, just seemed the most logical way to sort the range lol. But yeah, cut the range in half each time, going up or down depending on if you lose the target if you go too low (short) with your adjustment.
Sweet, feedback from [apparently] the best probe scanner in the game! Thanks for confirming this, I will definitely modify that part of my guide later then.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Forum Trashtalker
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
The directional scanner has a max range of around 14 AU, meaning you can theoretically, at a 360¦ angle, cover a sphere with a diameter of a maximum of 32 AU.
o_O
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 19:35:23
Originally by: Forum Trashtalker o_O
Woops... I think my mental calculator was broken lol I didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:42:00 -
[27]
Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Skunk (o)
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Le Skunk Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Uh? What? No! I can't, it takes a while to do all this. The part that takes 5 seconds or less is the moment from when you do the final probe scan to the moment you recall your probes. The target will only see your probes on his directional scanner for a few seconds only since you recall them immediately.
Probes only warp to where you want to scan when you click Analyze, so you can play around with them as much as you want while they are physically at the other end of the system.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 19:47:01
Originally by: Le Skunk Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Uh? What? No! I can't, it takes a while to do all this.
Sorry I was mearly pointing out the probing of a target takes time, practice, preperation, skills , and method (very good OP by the way)
I intended only to gently mock the carebear emo ragers in another post who maintain a potential prober mearly has to jump a cov ops into system and all mission runners exact positions flash on the screen like a FW mission beacon.
It should also be noted that the finding of the mission runner is only half of the battle. You still have to get in and get the target tackled - which any runner who wishes to protect themselves from can easily do in a variety of ways pointed out in other posts.
Great guide, and ignore the troll (hes recently come off another forum ban) as tbh your low slots are resonable. Perhaps overdrives would be better to move though the various acceleration gates and 30km slowboats in your enemys mission (more chances for him to spot ya on scan if he isnt semi-afking) , but the istabs can help you get out of the toxic cloud missions you often find yourself in with your hull popping.
SKUNK
(o)
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gypsio III
I understand what you're trying to say. But people learn how to use the directional scanner before they learn how to probe - knowledge of the directional scanner is one of the absolutely fundamental, essential skills in the game. So by the time a player gets to probing, he knows how to use the directional scanner, and the insight required to figure out how to use the scanner to assist probing is almost nonexistent.
This false. Most players especially mission runners never use it. Its a great tool for PVP but most people dont know anything about it unless a another player explains it to them.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Linda Duane
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:45:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Linda Duane on 15/07/2009 20:53:40 nvm . Your signature
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
- Step 11: Drag your probes in that direction, and use the range spheres of the probes themselves as a sort of ruler to set the proper distance from your ship. (i.e. if range was 3 AU, use a probe you set to 1 AU and one to 2 AU, and line their spheres up one after the other, then drop a 3rd probe on the edge of the last probe's sphere).
You can do this easier with the tactical overview.. which also works in solar map view.. has even AU as units.
Nice guide though and CCP should do something about this intel-mess, which is called scanner/overview/local..
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
- Step 11: Drag your probes in that direction, and use the range spheres of the probes themselves as a sort of ruler to set the proper distance from your ship. (i.e. if range was 3 AU, use a probe you set to 1 AU and one to 2 AU, and line their spheres up one after the other, then drop a 3rd probe on the edge of the last probe's sphere).
You can do this easier with the tactical overview.. which also works in solar map view.. has even AU as units.
Nice guide though and CCP should do something about this intel-mess, which is called scanner/overview/local..
Good call about using the tactical overview while in the system map. I use this all the time to get very accurate probe placement. Works very well.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Constable Chang
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.15 22:49:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Constable Chang on 15/07/2009 22:52:10
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
It's not an exploit, it's just very clever use of the available tools. ready to start scanning in this system.[/*]
Saying that something is not an exploit in an MMO is actually fairly hard.
Often an MMO company will declare something which most people would consider "working smarter, not harder" to be an exploit.
Blizzard do it, CCP do it.
Just because you are not taking advantage of a bug does not mean that the company won't consider it an 'exploit'.
They will often consider "using existing methods in ways which we didn't anticipate" to be an exploit.
For example, deleting a character that has a low security rating. Thats been officially declared an exploit by CCP.
In other words; "Its not not an exploit till the fat lady sings"
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.15 23:01:00 -
[35]
Quote: Just because you are not taking advantage of a bug does not mean that the company won't consider it an 'exploit'.
The company is not always right. They may declare something an exploit, but it doesn't mean it's an actual exploit. There has to be solid reasoning to back up a statement, not simple authoritarianism.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.07.15 23:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Step 10: Now, it's a bit tricky to do right, but you have to look at the scan vector of your ship in the minimap browser to see which way you were pointing at, and locate that vector on the Solar System map the best you can.
When you open the solar system map, you are always looking in the same direction as you were when your camera is in space. The same is true when closing the map. Your in-space camera will be facing the exact direction the solar system map's camera was facing.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Constable Chang
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.15 23:27:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: Just because you are not taking advantage of a bug does not mean that the company won't consider it an 'exploit'.
The company is not always right. They may declare something an exploit, but it doesn't mean it's an actual exploit. There has to be solid reasoning to back up a statement, not simple authoritarianism.
Sadly you are wrong. I wish you were right.
CCP is, in effect, the sovereign power in this game world and effectively have sovereign immunity etc.
They can, and do, make the laws up as they go.
We the players have only one recourse in event that something which we had thought innocuous is declared an 'exploit' and thats to cancel ones subscription.
Only very rarely do MMO companies engage in dialog with users who are declared to be 'exploiting'.
MMO companies are essentially authoritarian, totalitarian regimes.
This is a massive turnaround of the use of the word 'exploit' as it no longer applies to 'taking advantage of bugs', it is now used to refer to pretty much anything that the MMO company did not foresee.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.16 00:56:00 -
[38]
You can skip the minimap step by simply noting celestials (if any) visible in the camera view prior to F10 toggle to probe map once the target is isolated to 5/15 degrees and approx range noted.
The minimap thing will also not display variance due to being well off (above/below) the system plane (as many missions are) but does show up fine in the probe display map allowing for easy probe placement.
Just FYI...good covops/probe users have always used this to isolate a target prior to pooping out probes.
Further FYI...I like to shift my probes out of target scan range where possible so they are ready for the inevitable logoffski (fix the friggin recalled probe unstack thing already CCP whydontcha) and I don't have to decloak again.
Nicely written guide.
p.s. Stick a 24k on your Cheetah...go on..man up! If you train to Covops V you can ditch the co-pro too. And OD injectors/nanofibers will improve your cloaked speed to significantly better levels not to mention when you need to use the AB. And I-stabs=ballon sig radius...not nice should you decide to tackle with the thing!
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.16 01:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Step 10: Now, it's a bit tricky to do right, but you have to look at the scan vector of your ship in the minimap browser to see which way you were pointing at, and locate that vector on the Solar System map the best you can.
When you open the solar system map, you are always looking in the same direction as you were when your camera is in space. The same is true when closing the map. Your in-space camera will be facing the exact direction the solar system map's camera was facing.
I'll have to test this again then, cause I was under the impression that my solar system map always re-opened the way I last closed it.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Vistilantus
Caldari You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2009.07.16 08:11:00 -
[40]
No, that's how the solarsystem map now "works" it used to open up in the exact same direction you were facing but got nerfed/fixed/broke somewhere between apoc 1 and now.
P.s - thanks for the guide, i used most of the techniques before but has opened my eyes to some things i had overlooked. ___________________________________________________ ~Vistilantus |
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Shinnen
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.16 12:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Get good with teh scanner first.
Its the biggest PVP tool available because more likely than not, your target is already at a warpable place (belt, moon, station) and you just need to find where. With the scanner, you can find out in little to no time.
So, before you even launch probes, see if you can find the sucker with yoru scanner. If he's at a safe, THEN launch probes.
This. But a lot of people forget that...
So in fact one of the BEST ways to avoid being probed is just to warp between celestials. Occams razor in action.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.07.16 13:02:00 -
[42]
As a covop pilot training himself I find this extremely usefull and confusing at the same time . Many thanks . --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie |
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.07.16 13:26:00 -
[43]
Oi, nice guide indeed and you should place it on evelopedia asap
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 13:27:00 -
[44]
could we get rid of the implication, that this meager 40-50% bonus of a covert ops is actually necessary, pl0x?
'cause currently there's a few one-liners that **** me off royally:
1a) "nah i can't probe, i don't have a cov ops (alt)" 1b) "who here can probe?! someone get a cov ops! there's an apoc logged with aggro... ... ... we can't kill it we don't have a prober" - dude... all the launcher needs is astrometrics II and 220 cpu
2) "wtf roemy, don't waste high slots on the scimitar! stop probing and get more shield transporters" (sure... me and what powergrid...? :o)"
[Vagabond, New Setup 4] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Combat Scanner Probe I Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I
Hornet EC-300 x5 - putting the gist back into logistics |
iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.16 14:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Nice job Kaylan! Might I suggest you also post this on the EVElopedia? This is a good guide for it.
It's interesting to see how you Devs change the probing in a way so that mission-runners can be found faster and safer than before and appreciate, if players find a way to do it even faster and without giving any warning to the mission-runners. And then you wonder why everyone is doing missions in highsec and hardly anyone comes out to lowsec or 0.0 for doing missions there.
While this might be nice for some pirates in the short term, they'll soon run out of that specific mission-runner targets (which is already the case mostly, after you removed the deadspace effect on probing), since every mission-runner moved back to highsec. At the end you have frustrated the lowsec/0.0 mission-runners and the lowsec/0.0 anti-mission-runners without any advantage. Please think one step ahead and take the long-term effect of certain features into account.
@OP: thanks for sharing your knowledge. At least i now know how i lost my ship in a 0.0 mission-spot, without having that typical combat probes approaching on my directional scanner, which usually can be observed and which serves as a warning.
My skills Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.11 / Gallente Federation -9.99 |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.16 17:37:00 -
[46]
Well.. at least this is a post where they get warned.. and scanning with directional scanner for probes is dumb now..
If you can't stay aligned out, where you are, so that you can warp out in case a ship shows up on scan (if it shows up at all - talk about w-space and force recons as tacklers.. no deadspace behavior of those sites there either, you can warp direct on top of the target).
Sad sad sad for Soloplayers and small gangs..
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.16 17:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Sad sad sad for Soloplayers and small gangs..
As a long time solo / small gang player, I can say these scanning features don't effect gameplay negatively.
It works both ways. And as solo player, you pretty much have to fit a cloak anyways if you want to survive gank squads, especially since speed tactics were greatly nerfed.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.07.16 17:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Tres Farmer Sad sad sad for Soloplayers and small gangs..
As a long time solo / small gang player, I can say these scanning features don't effect gameplay negatively.
It works both ways. And as solo player, you pretty much have to fit a cloak anyways if you want to survive gank squads, especially since speed tactics were greatly nerfed.
As a member of a small corp (lots of solo and small gang time) I agree with Ephermeron that this is no big balance problem. Tactics alaways work both ways. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Hobgoblin ll
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.07.16 19:17:00 -
[49]
confirmed, i'm a solo player too (i play the market in jita solo) and i'm not affected
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/07/2009 17:26:24
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Yup, most new players I know never used the directional scanner in that manner (me first). There was no mention of this technique anywhere in the known EVElopedia, EVE Wiki or ingame tutorials, and I haven't seen any other guide explaining it in that much details. Unless someone learned this from another experienced corp member, or found it out on his own, there was no obvious way to learn this.
I understand what you're trying to say. But people learn how to use the directional scanner before they learn how to probe - knowledge of the directional scanner is one of the absolutely fundamental, essential skills in the game. So by the time a player gets to probing, he knows how to use the directional scanner, and the insight required to figure out how to use the scanner to assist probing is almost nonexistent.
Um, I must have been playing the game wrong for the past 6 years then...I only barely know the DS exists, and I doubt new players can find it except by accident :/
Ive been into probing recently. I like the guide.
My sig was fail, but now it isn't.
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
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Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Constable Chang
Just because you are not taking advantage of a bug does not mean that the company won't consider it an 'exploit'.
Well, if we've got CCP folk posting, I think you're safe for now.
Evading pursuit could be quite an exciting thing to do, it's a bit sad to see it get more one-dimensional as the countermeasures come down to "stay aligned, fight long-range" or "safespot and cloak till Local empties".
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:22:00 -
[52]
MUCH easier ways of doing this.
Knowing where the target is certainly helps, but using a pattern with the probes (which i'll keep to myself thank you.) works much more efficiently then just blobbing them at the correct range.
I frequently use pattern techniques to find people in less then a min if I can't see them, and in 10 seconds if I know where they are at. (Well duh on that last one.)
But using the scanner is def numero uno.
Stop, hammer time. |
Aesheera
Amarr Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.07.16 23:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Megan Maynard MUCH easier ways of doing this.
Knowing where the target is certainly helps, but using a pattern with the probes (which i'll keep to myself thank you.) works much more efficiently then just blobbing them at the correct range.
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar EVE Online has a very high learning curve, but sometimes all it takes is a little nudge from more experienced players to make it lower. Unfortunately, a lot of veteran players seem to think that this nudge should be "earned" somehow, and keep advanced techniques inside their "elite" circle as if newer players were too stupid or unworthy to know them.
Shame. A potentially valued contribution to a solid post could have been made but i guess youre one of the people who like to keep their techniques inside "their circle".
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Killiashandra Ree
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Posted - 2009.07.16 23:29:00 -
[54]
Very nice guide, and explains an unexpected gank..uhh well I guess most ganks are unexpected.
To the vet elitist who don't like their techniques publicized, eve doesn't have a hard learning curve at all, or even that much depth, but it does have a complete lack of meaningful documentation. and I'm not talking about the players having to write the stuff up in wikis the devs are too slack to.
Got all my probe skills to level 4 and some to 5 before I even discovered the DS existed (aside of slapping the system scan button a couple of times waiting 30 secs for the display to remain completely unchanged).
top work op, ignore the H8ers. (and free bumpage, everyone needs to know the DS is effectively broken as a tool to look out for incoming probers)
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:43:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 17/07/2009 17:43:37
Originally by: Megan Maynard MUCH easier ways of doing this.
Knowing where the target is certainly helps, but using a pattern with the probes (which i'll keep to myself thank you.) works much more efficiently then just blobbing them at the correct range.
I frequently use pattern techniques to find people in less then a min if I can't see them, and in 10 seconds if I know where they are at. (Well duh on that last one.)
But using the scanner is def numero uno.
This is exactly what I was talking about. It's sad that some people wishes to keep techniques a secret just so they can be the only ones who uses them. Grow some balls and share it already!
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Dillon Arklight
Re-Genesis Holdings Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2009.07.18 11:20:00 -
[56]
Very nice guide Kaylan. Co-host of PODDED Podcast http://podded.libsyn.com/
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.07.31 14:13:00 -
[57]
Nice Guide.
I have never used the mini-map or tactical overlay in map mode. Will be checking this out asap.
Would like to add the following. Once you have the target to 15 or 5% untick the "use overview options on the dscanner" , doing this will enable you to see any wrecks.
Helps to work out if the target is in a mission and activelly ratting and what hardeners he is likely to be using.
Not strictley probing , but more info is usually good.
Also if target is within 5au I like to use the built in scanner just in case there in a anomoly rather than a mission. no probes to spot at any point if thats the case.
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Taram Caldar
GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.31 14:57:00 -
[58]
Very nice guide. As someone who's not novice to probing but certainly hasn't mastered the current probing system (what can I say, I don't probe much for anything but cosmic stuff) I found it pretty well written. I've already sort of played with the techniques but picked up a few nice tips from within the thread. Never thought to use the tactical overlay in map mode b4!
TBH though I still miss the old system :)
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.31 15:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 17/07/2009 17:43:37
Originally by: Megan Maynard MUCH easier ways of doing this.
Knowing where the target is certainly helps, but using a pattern with the probes (which i'll keep to myself thank you.) works much more efficiently then just blobbing them at the correct range.
I frequently use pattern techniques to find people in less then a min if I can't see them, and in 10 seconds if I know where they are at. (Well duh on that last one.)
But using the scanner is def numero uno.
This is exactly what I was talking about. It's sad that some people wishes to keep techniques a secret just so they can be the only ones who uses them. Grow some balls and share it already!
Well as a wormhole living pilot who are among the faster ones when it comes to fully scanning down systems. Why should I share my techniques and make my competition more effective?
Its based on simple triangulation principles and min/maxing number of scans, anyone who has worked with maps would know how to do this anyway. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.08.01 01:28:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 17/07/2009 17:43:37
Originally by: Megan Maynard MUCH easier ways of doing this.
Knowing where the target is certainly helps, but using a pattern with the probes (which i'll keep to myself thank you.) works much more efficiently then just blobbing them at the correct range.
I frequently use pattern techniques to find people in less then a min if I can't see them, and in 10 seconds if I know where they are at. (Well duh on that last one.)
But using the scanner is def numero uno.
This is exactly what I was talking about. It's sad that some people wishes to keep techniques a secret just so they can be the only ones who uses them. Grow some balls and share it already!
Well as a wormhole living pilot who are among the faster ones when it comes to fully scanning down systems. Why should I share my techniques and make my competition more effective?
Its based on simple triangulation principles and min/maxing number of scans, anyone who has worked with maps would know how to do this anyway.
Are you? How do we know this? Money where mouth is.
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