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Tell me about: stacking penalties

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Dzil Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes	Posted - 2009.07.15 18:43:00 - [1] Alrighty, I understand how if you use more than one of many types of module, a stacking penalty takes place. In laymans terms, we can look at this as a drop off in effectiveness looking something like 80-60-40-20-worthless when we use 2+ of the same module (those aren't exact, but that piece isn't wholly relevant to the topic). Question is, if I have different modules, does it matter what order I fit them in terms of the stacking nerf? IE if I have 1 officer gyrostab, and two Tech IIs, does it make any difference what order they are fitted to the ship? ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.15 18:46:00 - [2] The order they are fitted doesn't matter. It always sorts the modules by effectiveness before stacking. So if you have 2 officer mods and a t1, the t1 will take the biggest hit from stacking. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.15 18:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega The order they are fitted doesn't matter. It always sorts the modules by effectiveness before stacking. So if you have 2 officer mods and a t1, the t1 will take the biggest hit from stacking. I thought it was all done with a simple multiplier formula? (thus making things like 'order' obsolete) IE: bonus1 x bonus2 x bonus3 x (1 - N_numberofmods x somerandomnumber) In fact I'm quite sure it works like that and the penalty is applied on the sum of all the mod's bonusses, not per mod. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.15 19:00:00 - [4] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega The order they are fitted doesn't matter. It always sorts the modules by effectiveness before stacking. So if you have 2 officer mods and a t1, the t1 will take the biggest hit from stacking. I thought it was all done with a simple multiplier formula? (thus making things like 'order' obsolete) IE: bonus1 x bonus2 x bonus3 x (1 - N_numberofmods x somerandomnumber) In fact I'm quite sure it works like that and the penalty is applied on the sum of all the mod's bonusses, not per mod. Afaik it used to be until they changed it. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.07.15 19:07:00 - [5] Stacking equation is here, at least one that matches my test results. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (also with a review of the Muninn!)
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.15 20:59:00 - [6] bah... whatever the exact formula might be, I know enough from experience to know that: 1 module gives nice bonus 2 modules gives a nice bonus (and in case of dmg mods even NICER bonus as the 2nd bonus - stacking penalty is still more than the original bonus from the 1st mod) 3 modules gives a nice bonus if you are going for a pure gank DPS setup 4 or more modules is totally unacceptable in ANY situation. This atleast holds true for damage mods but I'd assume it also counts for most other modules. Although I would never fit more than 2 EANM or invuln fields on a ship. Really as long as you know that there really isnt a need to know the 'exact' formula if you ask me. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Xious Caldari Silent Wolves 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:10:00 - [7] Actually the 4th damage mod gives about 6.8% IIRC so I suppose, for pure DPS fits, you could justify the 4th damage mod, but for most scenarios yeah, the 4th doesn't do enough to justify the slot it uses.
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega The order they are fitted doesn't matter. It always sorts the modules by effectiveness before stacking. So if you have 2 officer mods and a t1, the t1 will take the biggest hit from stacking. This is correct, and it's why if you have already 3 invuls activate, your resist will still increase a lot if you activate a single 55% EM hardener (and also the reason why it's worth fitting T2 damage/ROF rigs on top of 3 damage mods). --
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:17:00 - [9] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner 4 or more modules is totally unacceptable in ANY situation. As the poster above said, 7% is a healthy bit. There are some situations where a 4th damage mod is a good choice - a torp raven comes to mind. There are also some mission setups where a 4th damage mod would do okay, but usually a TE is a better choice.
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.16 06:00:00 - [10] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: SFX Bladerunner 4 or more modules is totally unacceptable in ANY situation. As the poster above said, 7% is a healthy bit. There are some situations where a 4th damage mod is a good choice - a torp raven comes to mind. There are also some mission setups where a 4th damage mod would do okay, but usually a TE is a better choice. Well I guess I can agree to some point that putting 4 BCS on a torp golem for missions is worth it. Generally however in PVP it 'should' (atleast in my book) be about balancing gank and tank. Some people tend to lean more towards gank and some people tend to lean more towards tank. I personally have shipsetups that use 3 damage mods and shipsetups that only use 1 or even none, but fitting 4 damage mods in my book just doesn't justify the loss in possible tank/buffer/gank that you lose from it. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Bellac	Posted - 2009.07.16 07:44:00 - [11] I seem to be against general thought here but stacking penalties are not difficult. I beleive that the stacking penalty simply applied to the ship stats regardless of how many modules are fitted (even if it is just 1). For example if you have a ship with no EM resistance and add a module with a 50% bonus - your ships resistance becomes 50%. If your ship already has an in built bonus of 50% and you add the same module - the resistance is increased by half of 50% so the resistance become 75%.
Kenji Hideyoshi	Posted - 2009.07.16 08:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Bellac I seem to be against general thought here but stacking penalties are not difficult. I beleive that the stacking penalty simply applied to the ship stats regardless of how many modules are fitted (even if it is just 1). I think you have confused the terms. When talking about the stacking penalty, we are talking about the penalty added to having more than one module fitted that boosts the same attribute. What you describe is not a penalty - it's just how adding percentages work. It makes it simpler if you think of a resistance module removing a percentage of the damage you take. You may be hit for 100 EM damage. If you have a natural 50% EM resistance, you will take 50 EM damage. Adding a module which gives you 50% EM resistance will protect you from 50% of that 50 EM damage - which is 25. In the game your fitting screen will show EM res. 75%, which fits perfectly with the 25 EM damage you're going to sustain. When we talk about the penalty, that is what happens if you put on more than one module affecting the same stat. If you had 0% natural EM resistance and got hit for 100 EM damage, you would (of course) take 100 EM damage. Adding a module that gives 50% EM res would bring that damage down to 50. Adding a second module should, if there was no penalty, bring that 50 EM damage down to 25 (adding 50% resistance to the 50 EM damage you currently take) but this is not the case. This is where the stacking penalty kicks in. The first one would give you 50% EM resistance, but adding the second one only increases your total resistance to 71.7% EM resistance and not 75% as you would suspect. Keep in mind that any stacking attribute will be penalized. Having a 50% EM hardener on as well as an EANM will penalize the added bonus from the EANM, but for EM only. The EANM bonus to Kinetic, Explosive and Thermal resistances is unaffected by the penalty, as they did not already have a module affect them.

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