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Should Empire missions be re-forged to prevent the tide of PvP in PvE

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casfaav	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:10:00 - [1] EVE is a liquid place and anything goes, but sometimes an oversite in a design can lead to unxpected things some people say there that life other call it a bug or a missing peice awating modification. Recently running missions in Highsec space on LVL4 there has been an sistemic tide of salvage Ningas removing items from missions. It is plainly obvious that Empire missions where never designed for this and need to be re-worked, so tell me if we can shoot NPC's of another fraction why can we shoot salvage Ninjas? Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed.
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:30:00 - [2] Originally by: casfaav EVE is a liquid place and anything goes, but sometimes an oversite in a design can lead to unxpected things some people say there that life other call it a bug or a missing peice awating modification. Recently running missions in Highsec space on LVL4 there has been an sistemic tide of salvage Ningas removing items from missions. It is plainly obvious that Empire missions where never designed for this and need to be re-worked, so tell me if we can shoot NPC's of another fraction why can we shoot salvage Ninjas? Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. Here we go again! Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:32:00 - [3] Also: I'm going to name one of my salvage ships "sistemic tide" in your honor. El Oh El. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Nostredeus Morphius Minmatar Judgement. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:36:00 - [4] I literately just fell out my chair with laughter... Confirming that the next post will be op's tears, partly Because of Falcon and partly because of the burn that flame just delivered.
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.07.16 00:00:00 - [5] please just shut up and **** off if you dont like it Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Darkdood	Posted - 2009.07.16 00:17:00 - [6] I'm starting to wonder if I should quit this game. Not because you can ninja salvage. Not because there is rampant macro's. Not because there is rampant scamming etc... but because the devs honestly don't seem to care that a large part of there paying customers don't want these things. I'm honestly not sure if its a majority but the devs really should stop beating up the paying customer and listen to them. There is a reason why there is a salvage post 3 times a day. People are **ed off. We don't care if you think its ok.** We are the customer and we pay to play this game. "The customer is always right". I thought this was the whole point of the CSM's or whatever. Yet seems to me the devs aren't listening. Maybe I missed something. All I'm going to say is this... Go ask the Star Wars Galaxy's devs what happens when you ignore your player base. The first game that comes along that is as good or better everyone leaves. For all you lamers out there that think that can't happen to eve wake up. It can. It was STAR WARS. Think about that for a second. You know the uber movie franchise of all time. Yet everyone left. I know I was one of them. WoW came out and I was gone. I fully admit that Eve has allot going for it. That is why I don't want to see the devs screw it up. Stop ignoring your players.
Menzisu Uiru	Posted - 2009.07.16 00:24:00 - [7] Edited by: Menzisu Uiru on 16/07/2009 00:24:12 1. If the devs didn't care about mission runners they would have nerfd high sec lvl 4s a while ago. 2. "Ninja" salvagers are paying customers too!
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.16 01:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Darkdood I'm starting to wonder if I should quit this game. Not because you can ninja salvage. Not because there is rampant macro's. Not because there is rampant scamming etc... but because the devs honestly don't seem to care that a large part of there paying customers don't want these things. I'm honestly not sure if its a majority but the devs really should stop beating up the paying customer and listen to them. There is a reason why there is a salvage post 3 times a day. People are **ed off. We don't care if you think its ok.** We are the customer and we pay to play this game. "The customer is always right". I thought this was the whole point of the CSM's or whatever. Yet seems to me the devs aren't listening. Maybe I missed something. All I'm going to say is this... Go ask the Star Wars Galaxy's devs what happens when you ignore your player base. The first game that comes along that is as good or better everyone leaves. For all you lamers out there that think that can't happen to eve wake up. It can. It was STAR WARS. Think about that for a second. You know the uber movie franchise of all time. Yet everyone left. I know I was one of them. WoW came out and I was gone. I fully admit that Eve has allot going for it. That is why I don't want to see the devs screw it up. Stop ignoring your players. SWG died because the devs took it in stupid directions at the demands of a segment that wanted a homogeneous playstyle with no risk, no complexity, no challenge, and a linear progression. They ended up driving out everyone except one group of players that wanted to have lightsabers and grind mindlessly with no repercussions for failure and no non-consensual PVP. Sound familiar? Once the game was chopped down to one player demographic, it died a speedy death. Signed, - A Salvage Ninja with three paying accounts. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.07.16 01:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Darkdood ... but because the devs honestly don't seem to care that a large part of there paying customers don't want these things. Carebears are similar to mindless zombies. They only want easier and easier, and don't see the bigger picture, that EVE is a unique and challenging game because it often times forces player interaction with consequences of those interactions. Easier doesn't necessarily make EVE a better game. More carebear friendly doesn't necessarily make EVE a better game. Making EVE appeal to a larger playerbase (super-carebears?) doesn't necessarily make EVE a better game. Originally by: Darkdood "The customer is always right". No, you're not right. You're wrong and foolish. Originally by: Darkdood All I'm going to say is this... Go ask the Star Wars Galaxy's devs what happens when you ignore your player base. The first game that comes along that is as good or better everyone leaves. For all you lamers out there that think that can't happen to eve wake up. It can. It was STAR WARS. Think about that for a second. You know the uber movie franchise of all time. Yet everyone left. I know I was one of them. WoW came out and I was gone. That's not what happened. They actually DID listen to their playerbase, but they listened to the wrong ones. They pandered to their playerbase, trying to appeal to a larger and larger demographic, until what they were left with was a bastardized travesty of what it once was, which wasn't that great of a game in the first place. CCP has a history of making changes that may be unpopular at the time, but it usually yields a better and stronger game in the long run. Examples: Missile nerf, Falcon nerf, numerous Gallente nerfs, Amarr nerfs/buffs, agility nerf-buff-nerf-buff-nerfs etc. etc. Your $15/mo doesn't guarantee that you're going to be the uberking of EVE, because this is a real MMO, where other people compete for the same goals. Please quit asking for everything to just be handed to you, and go out there and actually PLAY the game.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.07.16 02:06:00 - [10] Please allow shooting salvage thieves. I want to see the epic carebear tears when they realize that shooting the thief tends to result in the thief coming back in a bigger ship and killing them. After all, this is exactly what happened when CCP gave in to carebear demands for kill rights on jetcan theft, and missioners tend to have MUCH more expensive ships than miners. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2009.07.16 02:08:00 - [11] Originally by: casfaav EVE is a liquid place and anything goes, but sometimes an oversite in a design can lead to unxpected things some people say there that life other call it a bug or a missing peice awating modification. It is not a bug. CCP are the ones that decide what is and is not allowed within their game. Until they decide otherwise, other players can come into your mission and salvage or do whatever they bloody well want, note if you are in high sec they are not allowed too attack you. Remember, the salvage does not belong to you. Originally by: casfaav Recently running missions in Highsec space on LVL4 there has been an sistemic tide of salvage Ningas removing items from missions. It is plainly obvious that Empire missions where never designed for this and need to be re-worked, so tell me if we can shoot NPC's of another fraction why can we shoot salvage Ninjas? Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. That nice. Unless your corp mates own CCP your opinion stand for nothing. If you consider that CCP is so uncaring to your needs why do continue playing this game? Ninja salvaging may be impolite, it may be rude and it is probably not "fair play". But the fact is it is a legitimate tactic. Therefore until it changes adapt or go play another game. Also I post with my main, can you say the same?
Nemiron Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.16 02:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Paul Clavet dev stuff Add this as well: Originally by: CCP Prism X I have a habit of posting in these threads. See no reason to go against tradition. Wink Sadly, I've already explained the whole shebang a couple of times already and have heard no discussions as to changing the ownership of salvage. Things are working as they were designed and I do believe we're quite happy about what the introduction of salvaging has done for us. So, there's nothing more to add. Linkage Someone please sticky Pauls Clavets answer. We get those threads EVERY day. And people post reasons why salvage rights are as they are and what CCPs stance is over an over again. Or ban people not reading the common ideas thread....It will just get worse day by day with increasing subscribers.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.07.16 02:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Darkdood We don't care if you think its ok. We are the customer and we pay to play this game. "The customer is always right". The one single reason not to work in the US ever. Dumb people get good people fired. Read here how dumb people stating "the customer is always right" really are. In most other countries, you would get thrown out of the store immediately for beeing a ****ing moron. So just shut up and leave if you're too much of a sissy and not satisfied with the service provided. CCP cares more about the community than every other mmo publisher out there. They just don't sell out to people like you.
casfaav	Posted - 2009.07.16 11:53:00 - [14] ninjas = missery for mission runners ninjas take part of our gameing away from mission runners
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.07.16 11:55:00 - [15] Originally by: casfaav ninjas = missery for mission runners ninjas take part of our gameing away from mission runners Mission running in highsec is still one of the activities that require the least social interaction. If you refuse social interaction, then reap the rewards of people not linking you. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (also with a review of the Muninn!)
Tranka Verrane Public Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:34:00 - [16] Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 16/07/2009 12:36:45 Something that either some players are ignoring or are just unaware of is that salvaging is relatively new. Saying that empire missions weren't designed for this is ridiculous. Salvaging was added on top of normal missioning, which continued for years and the current mechanic took nothing away from the status quo, just adding another level which is available to mission runners. Go back a year or two and we were happily flying around making isk from missioning without complaint that there was no salvage for us to loot. You also seem to have little even basic understanding of economics. Kid's today, no appreciation. Player Since 2005 Over 4000 hours logged
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 16/07/2009 12:54:33 Originally by: Darkdood I'm starting to wonder if I should quit this game. Not because you can ninja salvage. Not because there is rampant macro's. Not because there is rampant scamming etc... but because the devs honestly don't seem to care that a large part of there paying customers don't want these things. I'm honestly not sure if its a majority but the devs really should stop beating up the paying customer and listen to them. There is a reason why there is a salvage post 3 times a day. People are **ed off. We don't care if you think its ok. We are the customer and we pay to play this game. "The customer is always right". I thought this was the whole point of the CSM's or whatever. Yet seems to me the devs aren't listening. Maybe I missed something. All I'm going to say is this... Go ask the Star Wars Galaxy's devs what happens when you ignore your player base. The first game that comes along that is as good or better everyone leaves. For all you lamers out there that think that can't happen to eve wake up. It can. It was STAR WARS. Think about that for a second. You know the uber movie franchise of all time. Yet everyone left. I know I was one of them. WoW came out and I was gone. I fully admit that Eve has allot going for it. That is why I don't want to see the devs screw it up. Stop ignoring your players. All the whiners are just that whiners. Ninja salvagin has never been a problem. Just don't do your mission in a 300 populated system . I have used level 4's to support my PvP for a year now. I have never had a ninja salvager in my mission sites. What about the ninja salvager? Surly he does not want this to cahnge? And he is a paying customer as well, and for every whiner there is a nija salvager. So your "the customer is always right" b.s. don't cut it at all. If you want to quit, quit. There is nothing more to it. But becuase some levle 4mission runners are whining does not mean it should change. I like EVE bacuse of that, because its not WOW where you can go your merry own way inthout being perturbed by any PvP element. And EVE have the tools for removing them as well. If the ninja salvager is not a npc corp guys, war dec his corp (or hire mercs). Get some gang mates to salvage for you. Blow up your own wrecks in his face to make him wast his time (my corpie do this when he is missioning in a mission hub ^^). Salvage on site with a Marauder. Come up with another plan to fool him using ingame tools. But the most importent part is to use corpies to stop the ninja salvagers. The possibilities are many. So the whiners are just that; whiners. They are very vocal, and many persist to post with diffrent accounts as well. So you get to hear them, but not the other part. So the general populace do not really want this to change, only a miniory of lazy bum mission runners that thinks this is a PVE game. And EVE is not for everybody. Because a few customars do not like the game as it, do not mean they are right, it just measn this is not a product for them. Thats why such b.s. as you spout kind of **es me off. EDIT: Spelling... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
casfaav	Posted - 2009.07.16 18:51:00 - [18] Edited by: casfaav on 16/07/2009 18:52:15 Are you the same person using different alts on this forum ? 1) Privacy 2) its the ability not to beable to anything about it (leagly) 3) The more ships in your fleet the eaiser it is to track you down 4) Most ninjas use alt in newbe corps so you can't declare war on then 5) Consumer demad with the number of topics rased about this its obvious people are getting irate about Ninjas
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:26:00 - [19] Originally by: casfaav Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. I accept this on the condition that no CONCORD protection whatsoever applies to missions. In other words, make mission spaces little pockets of 0.0 where anything goes. -/ the fighting republicans /-
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: casfaav Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. I accept this on the condition that no CONCORD protection whatsoever applies to missions. In other words, make mission spaces little pockets of 0.0 where anything goes. If this is ever implemented, Suddenly Ninjas will get enough tears to fuel their POS and ships forever. -SIG- The true meaning of CCP; Completely Crap Patches. Truth.
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: casfaav Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. I accept this on the condition that no CONCORD protection whatsoever applies to missions. In other words, make mission spaces little pockets of 0.0 where anything goes. I endorse this product and/or service. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (also with a review of the Muninn!)
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.07.16 21:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: casfaav Mysels and corp mates agree anyone not in the mission holders fleet and in the mission area should have their concord protection rights removed. I accept this on the condition that no CONCORD protection whatsoever applies to missions. In other words, make mission spaces little pockets of 0.0 where anything goes. for once a good idea Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist

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