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Confused about ramdisk option and ram in machine

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Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:10:00 - [1] Can anyone clarify for me if having 8GB of ram in my desktop pc negates any possible benefits of using the mysterious ramdisk solution for the cache files in Eve? Does perhaps the option "resource cache enabled" something similar to moving cache onto a ramdisk?
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:17:00 - [2] if you have vista64 then you should be fine... if you have a 32bit O/S then your are only using 3.25Gb of that RAM and you should upgrade YMMV -- RaTTuS @ InEve, Capital Prints for sale
Xianthar STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:21:00 - [3] Originally by: RaTTuS if you have vista64 then you should be fine... if you have a 32bit O/S then your are only using 3.25Gb of that RAM and you should upgrade YMMV not if you have PAE enabled.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:29:00 - [4] PAE?
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Orion GUardian PAE? Physical Address Extension
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.22 13:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: RaTTuS if you have vista64 then you should be fine... if you have a 32bit O/S then your are only using 3.25Gb of that RAM and you should upgrade YMMV not if you have PAE enabled. No. Or, well… depends. On XP, PAE only allows you to make use of >2GB, but you're still limited to 3.5GB max. On Vista, you still need 64bit to make use of more than 4GB. However, this is due to licensing restrictions in the OS rather than actual hardware limitations (go Intel!). So yes, PAE would let a 32-bit OS use a crapton of RAM… except Windows refuses to do so unless you pay extra for it. It's possible to hack out the license restriction and let both XP and Vista32 run wild, but it's not exactly a trivial matter. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.07.22 14:16:00 - [7] PAE does not work with XP 32bit SP2 or Vista 32bit, well it works, but you can't use more than 4GB adressable space, this includes 256MB for various system resources and your Video RAM. So if you have 4GB RAM in XP 32bit SP2 or Vista 32bit and you have 512MB Video RAM, you will only have 3328MB RAM available for your OS and applications. Furthermore, regardless of PAE and adressable space, Vista 32bit and XP 32bit are limited to 4GB RAM. Vista 64bit basic is limited to 8GB RAM and Vista 64bit home premium is limited to 16GB RAM. On top of that, you have alot more adressable space, so you can put 3 x GTX285 2GB ( for a total of 6GB Video Memory ) and still have the full 16GB available for your OS and Apps. This to rectify some mistakes the above posters made. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.07.22 14:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: RaTTuS if you have vista64 then you should be fine... if you have a 32bit O/S then your are only using 3.25Gb of that RAM and you should upgrade YMMV not if you have PAE enabled. No. Or, wellà depends. On XP, PAE only allows you to make use of >2GB, but you're still limited to 3.5GB max. On Vista, you still need 64bit to make use of more than 4GB. However, this is due to licensing restrictions in the OS rather than actual hardware limitations (go Intel!). So yes, PAE would let a 32-bit OS use a crapton of RAMà except Windows refuses to do so unless you pay extra for it. It's possible to hack out the license restriction and let both XP and Vista32 run wild, but it's not exactly a trivial matter. Seems you beat me to the punch :p This is correct. And AFAIK if you want to hack your XP or Vista 32bit to use more than 4GB RAm, you need to 2 hacks, 1 is to put the server files into your OS, second is to circumvent product activation. It is alot easier to just use Vista 64bit, which is free if you have Vista 32bit, it uses the same serial key, only thing you need is a copy of the 64bit DVD, which you could order from Microsoft or copy from a friend. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.22 14:33:00 - [9] Edited by: Tippia on 22/07/2009 14:35:56 Yes, I couldn't find the site where they describe how to (laboriously) remove the license check from XP and 32-bit Vista, but included replacing a couple of files with their winserver equivalents and using some good old hexediting on a couple of others, and even then, as you mentined, some apps would just go nuts when the OS reported an unexpectedly large amount of free memory to them (cue crude "what, 9000?!" jokes) At least I found this that explains the issue in some detail: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory. That article also includes a link to this handy MSDN article on the RAM limits of various Windows versions (note in particular how some 32-bit versions happily allow a lot more than 4GB, and, conversely, how some 64-bit version only support a measly 8 or 16GB). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.07.22 14:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi Can anyone clarify for me if having 8GB of ram in my desktop pc negates any possible benefits of using the mysterious ramdisk solution for the cache files in Eve? Does perhaps the option "resource cache enabled" something similar to moving cache onto a ramdisk? If you want to run any kind of ramdisk solution, you will need to have RAM to spare, so the more the better ... If you have alot of RAM free, you should be able run EVE Online completely from a ramdisk. I haven't used a ramdisk anymore since the DOS days, but a ramdisk is basically a part of your RAM that you use as a harddisk. Except that it is cleared when you reboot. I am gonna look into this further, once I can fix these annoying sound issues :( Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.07.22 15:20:00 - [11] Originally by: CyberGh0st Originally by: Zaiyo Modi Can anyone clarify for me if having 8GB of ram in my desktop pc negates any possible benefits of using the mysterious ramdisk solution for the cache files in Eve? Does perhaps the option "resource cache enabled" something similar to moving cache onto a ramdisk? If you want to run any kind of ramdisk solution, you will need to have RAM to spare, so the more the better ... If you have alot of RAM free, you should be able run EVE Online completely from a ramdisk. I haven't used a ramdisk anymore since the DOS days, but a ramdisk is basically a part of your RAM that you use as a harddisk. Except that it is cleared when you reboot. I am gonna look into this further, once I can fix these annoying sound issues :( RAM disks aren't really supported anymore, but you can get a sample driver to do it in windows 2k: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/257405
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:08:00 - [12] I think I have misunderstood my own question as it was presented here. Let me rephrase the problem. I guess I was really wondering, if by having a usb flash memory stick acting as a harddrive for speeding up anything to do with eve's file management, as in writing or reading from files during gameplay or perhaps just with startup, that it would perhaps make for an improved performance despite having a lot of internal ram on the computer. So I am not really interested in using flash memory as ram. To add to all of this. I use two eve clients at the same time, using the same install directory but with two different cache/settings folders on a separate harddrive. I just thought that using some kind of flash drive might improve performance somehow, though to be honest it is more like wishful thinking than anything rational because I know too little about all of this.
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.07.22 18:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi I think I have misunderstood my own question as it was presented here. Let me rephrase the problem. I guess I was really wondering, if by having a usb flash memory stick acting as a harddrive for speeding up anything to do with eve's file management, as in writing or reading from files during gameplay or perhaps just with startup, that it would perhaps make for an improved performance despite having a lot of internal ram on the computer. So I am not really interested in using flash memory as ram. To add to all of this. I use two eve clients at the same time, using the same install directory but with two different cache/settings folders on a separate harddrive. I just thought that using some kind of flash drive might improve performance somehow, though to be honest it is more like wishful thinking than anything rational because I know too little about all of this. You will be limited to the speed of USB, which is not as fast as running it off a SATA drive. I think you get 40mbit/s with usb, SATA you get around 6gbit/s.
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.22 18:57:00 - [14] Gah I am still confused. I thought that a usb flash drive came into all of this somehow. I was wrong then? Ok, so a ramdisk is just some amount of computer ram acting like a harddrive, which I guess would be read and written to faster than a harddrive, which usually reside at some mydocuments folder containing the cache and settings folders.
Wired Rising Ashes Inc. SATRAPY	Posted - 2009.07.22 19:57:00 - [15] Bah, a RAMDisk is old hat. You need one (or more of these) Linkage This isn't the best link for information (i left that at work), but you get the idea. For those that didn't follow the link.... PCI-E Solid state storage (very very fast) ============================================= My sig got edited, and all i got was a lousy e-mail
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.07.22 22:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi Gah I am still confused. I thought that a usb flash drive came into all of this somehow. I was wrong then? Ok, so a ramdisk is just some amount of computer ram acting like a harddrive, which I guess would be read and written to faster than a harddrive, which usually reside at some mydocuments folder containing the cache and settings folders. Ah, you mean SSD drives. SSD drives are just fast harddisks that indeed use sortoff the same tech as USB sticks. However, they are not faster than regular harddisks in all cases. I still prefer ( velocy ) raptors in raid 0 myself. Either way, regular RAM is still waaaay faster than SSD's, so one does not exclude the other, meaning if you have 8GB of RAM, you still want a fast harddisk like a raptor, or an SSD if you think it will perform better in your case. Here is a nice article about SSD's : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-performance-power,2279.html Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.07.23 02:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi Gah I am still confused. I thought that a usb flash drive came into all of this somehow. I was wrong then? Ok, so a ramdisk is just some amount of computer ram acting like a harddrive, which I guess would be read and written to faster than a harddrive, which usually reside at some mydocuments folder containing the cache and settings folders. You are a bit confused :>. http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/memory/vista/readyboost.shtml Ready boost is an absoultely failed MS initiative to use removable USB sticks to "speed up" vista by acting as more memory (which doesn't work) with a ramdisk which essentially is assigning your ram as a "normal" harddisk. Which can work nicely although can be quite complicated. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.07.23 03:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Shevar Originally by: Zaiyo Modi Gah I am still confused. I thought that a usb flash drive came into all of this somehow. I was wrong then? Ok, so a ramdisk is just some amount of computer ram acting like a harddrive, which I guess would be read and written to faster than a harddrive, which usually reside at some mydocuments folder containing the cache and settings folders. You are a bit confused :>. http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/memory/vista/readyboost.shtml Ready boost is an absoultely failed MS initiative to use removable USB sticks to "speed up" vista by acting as more memory (which doesn't work) with a ramdisk which essentially is assigning your ram as a "normal" harddisk. Which can work nicely although can be quite complicated. i built a pc and put 16 gig of ram in it (i know, its not practical but it was on sale so i figured, what the hell) you guys have spurred my interest in a ramdisk lets suppose i'd like to take 10gig of my system memory and use it as a virtual drive 1)what tools are best to accomplish this with? (specific software) 2)what limitations are placed on the ramdisk? (ie: it's volitile so i'm assuming you cant install anything to the ramdisk itself correct?) 3)any other useful info.... are there any innovative applications for the ramdisk? (what are the REAL benifits/is it worth it? can it provisioned to boost video performance? blah blah blah) hope i didn't hijack OP, thanks for the answers!!
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.07.23 19:46:00 - [19] Here is a link with some explanation and download link for a free version of ramdisk ( this is an updated version of the original microsoft ramdisk ) http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/05/27/free-ramdisk-for-windows-vista-xp-2000-and-2003-server/ What you can do with it? Dunno, it all depends, if you for example keep your computer running, you could copy your complete eve online folder to the ramdisk, you would need around 5GB of spare RAM available. Then any harddisk loading would be lightning fast, but I don't know if this is a big improvement in practice. I currently only have 4GB RAM, will have 8GB again soon, still that won't be enough for me to run EVE in a ramdisk. Perhaps you can put parts of EVE in there, I don't know.
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.07.23 20:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Barakkus on 23/07/2009 20:40:34 If you are doing a lot of stuff that is very dependant on writing large amounts of information to disk regularly then a ramdisk is a something to consider. For instance, I've used it when doing audio recordings or editing. Image or video editing can benefit from it as well, but really, unless you have a need for extremely fast reading/writing, you really wouldn't need to mess with it. Solid state drives, while nice, won't last you very long if you do a large amount of moving data on and off or around. They're only good for a few million reads and writes, and god forbid you're dumb enough to defragment one of those drives LOL...you basically cut it's life in half by running a defrag on one. I believe the cache files for eve are merely to keep you from having to download the portraits etc over and over again...it's not meant to increase system performace. If you put your eve cache on there you'll end up having to redownload all that crap every time you reboot your computer. I could be wrong about the intended purpose of the eve cache stuff, but I'm pretty sure that's what it's meant for.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.23 20:44:00 - [21] USB Stick RAM Disks are useful if you have say 512meg of RAM and want to run Vista without just the OS gobbling up all your physical ramsicles. After 3gigs of ram you start to hit the wall others have mentioned. You are probably way passed the need for a USB RAM upgrade. Next Main board I buy will have to accept just over 20gigs of RAM.

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