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Ubijalec
Citizens of Atlantis
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Posted - 2009.08.10 11:49:00 -
[961]
I up date my post above. :)
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:02:00 -
[962]
 Originally by: T'Amber
Hi everyone, sorry the final draw has been delayed.
More info when i wake up, I am wasted :| Too MUCH SPAHM!
/me out
Here is the drahma!
[ 2009.08.09 19:45:27 ] T'Amber > Because there has been a number of attempts over the last two weeks (especially the last couple of days when I released the formulae on the forums)
[ 2009.08.09 19:46:17 ] T'Amber > to roll numbers using our forumlae using the TEST login and names similar to us I have asked F9 to REDRAW the lotto numbers LIVE so it is completely transparent
[ 2009.08.09 19:46:32 ] T'Amber > i am going to post the login he is going to use now
[ 2009.08.09 19:46:55 ] T'Amber > If you are watching the website and figure out who has WON DONOT post it in here
[ 2009.08.09 19:47:12 ] T'Amber > I need to verify against the master log and SHIPSOFEVE's wallet
[ 2009.08.09 19:47:20 ] T'Amber > DO NOT: roll using our formulae
[ 2009.08.09 19:47:31 ] T'Amber > and DONOT please! register with names that look like us
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:04 ] T'Amber > everyone understand in the spam channel
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:09 ] T'Amber > DONOT ruin it for everyone else
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:19 ] T'Amber > I will mute you all :)
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:20 ] T'Amber > lols
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:25 ] T'Amber > [19:48:19] Scrapyard Attendant > WHERE DO WE REGISTER
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:27 ] T'Amber > dont cheat
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:30 ] T'Amber > ok heres the login:
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:33 ] Scrapyard Attendant > :O
[ 2009.08.09 19:48:59 ] T'Amber > SOE2F9AMBER
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:05 ] T'Amber > s o e 2 f 9 a m b e r
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:14 ] T'Amber > kk go have a looksee if you want
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:20 ] T'Amber > we're going to roll in 5 minutes
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:27 ] T'Amber > http://invisiblecastle.com/search/?search=SOE2F9XAMBER
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:40 ] T'Amber > DONT ROLL
[ 2009.08.09 19:49:46 ] T'Amber > im not staying awake another bloody hour!
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:04 ] T'Amber > Wollens sie bitter, miene arcshe richte harte slargen?
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:19 ] T'Amber > okSTOP
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:20 ] T'Amber > LOLS
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:25 ] T'Amber > THE SITE is going to die! :)
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:25 ] T'Amber > hahaha
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:38 ] T'Amber > ok. time to roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:54 ] F90OEX > rolling
[ 2009.08.09 19:50:59 ] T'Amber > [19:50:54] EVE System > Channel default access set to Moderated by T'Amber. This channel is now effectively running in moderated mode.
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:02 ] T'Amber > heheheh!
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:21 ] Scrapyard Attendant > am i muted still?
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:24 ] Scrapyard Attendant > WOOT
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:44 ] T'Amber > stop logging into the site lols
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:45 ] T'Amber > :|
[ 2009.08.09 19:51:59 ] T'Amber > ill go to bed and we roll tomorrow
[ 2009.08.09 19:52:02 ] T'Amber > MUAHAHAHAHAA
[ 2009.08.09 19:52:07 ] Guardian Sword > Haha
[ 2009.08.09 19:52:32 ] T'Amber > haha spam!
[ 2009.08.09 19:52:33 ] T'Amber > :)
I recieved a few evemails asking why the roll wasn't live and a number of people asking which roll was ours. Tanith Yarndemon alerted me to the fact that there was over 1000 rolls with names similar to ours, soe, using the test function and using our formulae. To make the lottery transparent I asked F9 to re draw and to do it live and I posted the Login he used before hand so everyone could check that the accounts history was blank and then he rolled afterwards. The reason why it took so long was that F9 was away from Eve working and he didn't know of this issue yet.
Please post your suggestions and any ideas you have.
T'amber
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:07:00 -
[963]
Originally by: Ubijalec
Edited by: Ubijalec on 10/08/2009 11:46:34
F9 -
The way the lotto was drawn no one had the oppertunity to win with the same ticket this lowered the odds of winning by all, especially the people with 1 or few tickets. Given the advertisment how is this fair to anyone.
T / F9 - I do feel you guys did a great exausting job with the lotto but I do not think you followed your on rules to a "T" like you expected and warned us about many times.
I'm sure this part of your advertisment was an oversite by both you guys but the results would without a doubt been diffrent. Don't think anyone will dispute that. :)
F9 alerted me to this last night and has suggested using a different site so that tickets are only eligable to win once. We are looking into an alternative 3rd party site to do this.
My apologies if you didn't know this and for me not seeing your query.
Bah I am SOOOOO exhausted, but I can't wait for Fleets of Eve!
-T'amber
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Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:09:00 -
[964]
Not entirely correct there was 49 draws of each of 22 numbers and using the correct formula. Generating 1078 tickets total. Since the draw just gives 22 numbers in an unordered list, either the top or bottom ticket could be the first prize, and any of them taking atleast one prize and hence granting them a pretty decent refund, even if still not nearly enough to cover a large portion of the costs obviously.
Anyway, I posted a pretty long list of what the story was here
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:11:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
Not entirely correct there was 49 draws of each of 22 numbers and using the correct formula. Generating 1078 tickets total. Since the draw just gives 22 numbers in an unordered list, either the top or bottom ticket could be the first prize, and any of them taking atleast one prize and hence granting them a pretty decent refund, even if still not nearly enough to cover a large portion of the costs obviously.
Anyway, I posted a pretty long list of what the story was here
Regarding who won, its the first number going down as explained in the rules on the first page.
Also thanks for bringing this to my attention on the draw day.
T
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Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:26:00 -
[966]
Originally by: T'Amber
Regarding who won, its the first number going down as explained in the rules on the first page.
Also thanks for bringing this to my attention on the draw day.
T
True, and also confirmed by examples. Only concern would be there is no way of proving which draw is done first. The list isn't ordered and hence both the bottom or top number can theoretically be tbe first one drawn. It doesn't matter in practice since all rolls are equal and there is just one roll. From our point of view and the presentation available all the rolls are done instantly and at the exact same point of time.
The only scenario where it could make a difference is IF you had actually tried to rig the lottery. You could then argue the bottom figure was the first one and then each new roll pushes the older one down a step, the most recent roll always being the top one. With a fixed draw and the id known in advance it doesn't matter as you have identical chances of ending up in top or bottom draw. If you could select which of the two wins the major prize the odds of winning it doubles since it's then top OR bottom and not top AND bottom.
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BloodMia
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:38:00 -
[967]
After reading all that I understand better the reason of the final choice and the delay BUT:
When people have chosen to participate to this event, they do entire confidance to T'Amber and especially to the tird partie used, F900EX.
Without that, people simply not buy any ticket...
So if you start from this consideration, I realy don't understand why this redraw was required! Ye, I'm little confused about this choice, sure that's much more "secure" and "transparent", but no, think that's not fair, espacialy for people that have won in the first draw...
This type of lottery is confidance's based so let it done is job 
Sincerly yours
BloodMia
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Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.08.10 12:45:00 -
[968]
Originally by: BloodMia
After reading all that I understand better the reason of the final choice and the delay BUT:
When people have chosen to participate to this event, they do entire confidance to T'Amber and especially to the tird partie used, F900EX.
Without that, people simply not buy any ticket...
So if you start from this consideration, I realy don't understand why this redraw was required! Ye, I'm little confused about this choice, sure that's much more "secure" and "transparent", but no, think that's not fair, espacialy for people that have won in the first draw...
This type of lottery is confidance's based so let it done is job
Sincerly yours
BloodMia
While true, it's as easy as this. In the public eye - no one won in the first draw. The idea of having a public and logged draw is entirely useless if you don't know which of the draws was the actual one or theirs. Many other lotteries have closed draws, such as Chribbas, BIG and the ESC lotteries, I personally consider this lotterys transparent and open draw a feature. Had there been no redraw it would've looked suspicious and I would probably have cried wolf myself.
As for trust, it's all good and great, but the instant any trusted party is proven guilty of some scam or similiar, their entire trust fund is gone. Not having a redraw could've costed them both their entire trustfund wether or not there actually was a scam involved. Now, that option just isn't there and the only thing anyone knows they've lost is 24 hours, which even it had a fair few spot prizes and sidecompetitions. Public stoning anyone?
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BloodMia
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:02:00 -
[969]
Ok, I understand and agree, thx for explanation
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
... which even it had a fair few spot prizes and sidecompetitions. Public stoning anyone?
Surely not! And thx again for T'Amber implication for keeping us the smile
See you at your next f**** great lottery 
BloodMia
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Ubijalec
Citizens of Atlantis
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:18:00 -
[970]
Edited by: Ubijalec on 10/08/2009 13:21:43
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
I'm personally responsible for the 24 hour delay. Here's why...
The draws can be monitored by any third party. There is however one issue, and that is identifying WHO actually made the draw. While this lottery has been running hundreds of people have looked into the random generator and tried the formula(Which IS entirely random for those of you still in doubt). Out of interest I've been monitoring all random draws done on the site, and a few hours before the draw was announced F9OOEX explained he wouldn't be able to be around for the drawing(due to being at work) and the draw had already been done and T'amber was notified.
When looking through the logs there we're 49 drawings with names that could be lead back to the lottery, T'Amber of F9OOEX. When I noticed this I started talking in the "Ships of EVE Spam" channel about it, it did however not reach many(Spam, in a spam channel, strange huh?). After a while I gave up and figured I'd convo and ask about it - how we would know which one was theirs and most importantly how we would know they hadn't made multiple draws and just picked the one best for them. She answered, we spoke about it and realized that the only one who would know about it would be F9OOEX, who was at work.
The only viable solution would be a redraw and for that we needed him to be online. This means there was no real way of telling what had happened, no real way of fixing it and no way of doing anything about it. After adding a few hours of spot prizes he was forced to call it a night, explained as much as was reasonable at the time and went to bed.
OKAY this is my final post on the subject. :)
Just so I understand correctly:
F9 did have a draw per the origional schedule but would not be around for the draw due to work. He past this on to T. After noticing that other people had used the same name or similar name for test draws you could not tell which was the legit draw by F9 or decided that due to the similar names people would call foul. ? Is that about right?
My question to this would be that F9 is the third party that everyone trust and when he completed the draw there would be a time stamp for when he did so. Why the re-draw??????
TKS :)
F9 - I know your answer will be no but will you post the results of the first draw based on the time you made it?
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Adrien Laurent
Emerald Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:29:00 -
[971]
To be honest Ubi I'd be ****ed if I spent as much as you and there was a redraw, but look at it this way - if you didn't win in the redraw, there is still a chance you probably didn't win in the original draw either, regardless of how many tickets you have.
I entered the lottery for fun - the 'extras' which my ticket provided access to provided enough entertainment to warrant a ticket.
Sure I would have liked to have won, who wouldn't, but I entered expecting to lose. The only gripe I have with the redraw, is the fact it was delayed a whole 24 hours. I wanted to know I had lost at the original advertised time, the delay only inconvenienced me.
Saying all this Ubi, I do see your point and if F9 was the trusted source then his first choice should have been trusted, however this isn't a lottery run for what you or I may like, it's got to be open and as fair to as many people as possible, which in such circumstances will change the outcome of events in order to do so.
I for one will most definitely be entering pretty much every lottery T'Amber will do in the future, despite the fact it will probably be an ISK sink - I never saw you in any of the noobship battles or the spot prize events, perhaps you are entering for reasons more of economics than entertainment. If you enter SOE3 Ubi, I'd personally like to have the chance to entertain you with my Velator 
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Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:35:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Ubijalec
OKAY this is my final post on the subject. :)
Just so I understand correctly:
F9 did have a draw per the origional schedule but would not be around for the draw due to work. He past this on to T. After noticing that other people had used the same name or similar name for test draws you could not tell which was the legit draw by F9 or decided that due to the similar names people would call foul. ? Is that about right?
My question to this would be that F9 is the third party that everyone trust and when he completed the draw there would be a time stamp for when he did so. Why the re-draw??????
TKS :)
F9 - I know your answer will be no but will you post the results of the first draw based on the time you made it?
That is correct. The issue is the F900EX name was alredy used, hence a new name had to be used. If you have complete faith and trust in F9OOEX, no, it wasn't compromised at all. Problem is there were 49 draws with different names all similiar to F9OOEX, such as NavyRaven9999(last draw was made by NavyRaven9000), F9XLIME and similiar names.
The redraw is to guarantee and make it impossible for f900ex to rig the lottery even if he wanted, by peer review. If everyone trusted him blindly there would be no need for transparency and open draws, he could just dictate the numbers and say he got them off say random.org.
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:40:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Ubijalec
Edited by: Ubijalec on 10/08/2009 13:21:43
OKAY this is my final post on the subject. :)
Actually I asked him to redraw, it was my choice not his. I take full responsibility for it.
T
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Alienta Dia
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.08.10 14:04:00 -
[974]
Originally by: T'Amber
Actually I asked him to redraw, it was my choice not his. I take full responsibility for it.
T
Speaking for myself (and I've been in-and-out of the game since the 5th day of it's release... check my character's birthdate sometime) I'm impressed with the restraint and the level-headedness that was exercised by T'Amber throughout a rather difficult 24 hour period (and with exceptionally little sleep). I've seen too many of these things devolve into a nasty and pointless set of bickerings which spoil the event for all involved.
The re-roll 'live' was by far the best call in an admittedly impossible situation. Eventhough I was not a winner in the re-roll , I thouroughly enjoyed the whacky entertainment put on by T to keep the masses happy... It was a great time had by most during a challenging event.
My iskies will be in for Fleets of EVE and any other future lotto run by T'Amber. I want an opportunity to get on another killmail as an involved party inflicting "0 hitpoints"... and maybe an EVE Fleet, washed and waxed by T'Amber.
My $.02
Your mileage may vary
Not valid in all countries
Plus tax, tags, title, insurance *and* management fees
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Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Ma'adim Logistics
Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.08.10 14:35:00 -
[975]
Awesome, I won something.
Now the hard part deciding which I want as I can fly like 6 or 8 of the faction/nay BS available :)
-------
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Random27
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Posted - 2009.08.10 14:38:00 -
[976]
Given all the confusion regarding the draw, might I suggest the follwing for future draws (if at all possible):
1) The draw is done on a third party site, with a known logon.
2) Observers can watch the draw, but cannot draw numbers with the same logon.
3) Each winning ticket is drawn individually, rather than 22 at once.
4) Each winning ticket is announced in the chat channel in game as soon as it is drawn.
5) In the case of a ticket being drawn more than once (e.g., for 3rd and 5th prizes), the second (and subsequent) draws of this number are disregarded, and a new number is drawn. Statistically, this gives the exact same odds for other tickets as if the ticket had been removed from the draw the first time it is drawn.
Points 1 and 2 are, of course, subject to the existence of a trusted third party random-number generation site. Points 3 and 4 are to reduce the potential confusion from similiar logons drawing to the same formula simultaneously. Point 5 is to cover teh concerns raised by other posters above.
BTW, T'Amber - thanks for the T2 frigs for the can art - you forgot to mention it on the front page!
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:04:00 -
[977]
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Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Ma'adim Logistics
Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:08:00 -
[978]
Originally by: Mangala Solaris
Awesome, I won something.
Now the hard part deciding which I want as I can fly like 6 or 8 of the faction/nay BS available :)
To confirm I have chosen an Apocalypse Navy Issue.
-------
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Alienta Dia
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:19:00 -
[979]
Originally by: T'Amber
The SPAM channel personified in a kitten... perfect!
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Radyck Starkiller
Black Ops Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:34:00 -
[980]
I am here to confirm contract was sent and accepted of the Faction ship set. Thanks again 
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Alvar
legio credere
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Posted - 2009.08.10 17:15:00 -
[981]
I confirm the contract of my Legion + subs
THX :)
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Tchernoborg
Eve University
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Posted - 2009.08.10 17:36:00 -
[982]
I confirm the contract of nothing, since #3 winner still hasn't chosen/reported what he's getting yet! *shakesfist*
Can i have his dread too if he doesn't show up after a while? ;P (kidding! partially >_>)
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Random27
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Posted - 2009.08.10 19:52:00 -
[983]
Edited by: Random27 on 10/08/2009 19:54:37
I've got to go and run a whole load of missions for the bloody Ammatar now, just so I can improve my standings enought to enter Caldari space and go and pick up my ships from Jita. My current Caldari standing is -6.7 with diplomacy 3! lol 
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T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.10 20:27:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Random27
Edited by: Random27 on 10/08/2009 19:59:40
Edited by: Random27 on 10/08/2009 19:54:37
I've got to go and run a whole load of missions for the bloody Ammatar now, just so I can improve my standings enough to enter Caldari space and go and pick up my ships from Jita. My current Caldari standing is -6.7 with diplomacy 3! lol
You can always contract to me and i can bring them to you. :)
Although i am going to bed hopefully, lotteries aren't good for your sleeping pattern :) 9am ftw
T
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Coil Sharpe
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Posted - 2009.08.10 21:02:00 -
[985]
Confirming that I have began my negotiations about the ships. I don't even need to sell all those rusty scrapheaps those mataris call ships myself, F90OEX and T'Amber are willing to buy them from me, oh happy day!
Nothing but good things to say for now, I have allready gotten all the ships I really want and now I am just waiting for an estimate on the value of the others.
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Prayer Knight
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Posted - 2009.08.10 21:21:00 -
[986]
Edited by: Prayer Knight on 10/08/2009 21:21:27
Grats to those who won
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Valhala King
Caldari
Valhala Metals Stones and Trade
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Posted - 2009.08.10 23:07:00 -
[987]
Edited by: Valhala King on 10/08/2009 23:09:42
before i go any further or anything is said i want to take a few sec to thank everyone who was involved in this Lotto, Tamber and his or her or it's crew and kittens for bring some good fun and joy to many people, if you want to agree or not we all had a blast wining or not. the activities we took part in were fantastic and help to bring people from all over the real world Global community and EVE Universe together for some great spam and fun, and for this T Amber, ( Mr puddles and Socgraties) Ships of Eve, F900ex, and your crew's I thank you.
so get on with it already, (  dam wall of text )
As the second place winner of SHIPS OF EVE LOTTO  i want to confirm that I have recieved My prize "The Guradian-Vexor" and after hours of debate, felt it was not good for me the person to have such a valued prize (already had folks make threats DO NOT LET ME SEE YOU FLYING AROUND...matter of fact DO NOT UNDOCK IT...) with some of the type of folks who are out there  and have no respect for such a valued prize,  I have opted to sell it for a undisclosed amount back to F9000ex, SO that they could either put it back into the next LOTTO or do as they want with it. END OF STORY...
p.s. i already have given the iskies away as well
and end of wall of text
again thank to you all and T amber, ships of eve, F9000ex, and kittens for a great time good luck to all in the future fly safe
Semper FI
VK out
Yesterday is history,
Tomorrow a Mystery,
Today a Gift that is why we call it the Present.
SEMPER FI
Sentinal Lives |
Bluelynx
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Posted - 2009.08.10 23:56:00 -
[988]
I am now the proud owner of a Chimera. Thank you so much, in spite of the "DRAHMA!" this lottery was awesome fun, F9 & T'Amber thankyou for all your hard work on it, we appreciate your lack of sleep :)
Please also thank Mr Puddles for all the lols.
(Apologies if this ends up a double post, the forum keeps timing out on me)
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e30089
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.11 00:55:00 -
[989]
Edited by: e30089 on 11/08/2009 00:55:50
I have sat and watched both lotteries as I have had an interest in them being in T'Ambers corp, and having a reasonably large financial "investment"? in it. to anyone that read has all of the posts as well you will know that it is impossible to keep everyone happy and although my opinions will come across as one sided I feel that I must state them.
T'Amber has done what he can - above and beyond what most would do to make this as fair and clear to all parties involved as possible, he is in BIG TROUBLE with his GF and it has been pointless going to see him face to face since these lotteries started because as he has said "I have been eating and breathing lottery for the last two months".
And to those that have posted regarding the isk that T'amber is making from it please think for a second . . . Where do you think the original ships came from? most of the Caldari ships were mine for the first SOE (two years worth of collecting) with the idea that the ships that I wanted would be replaced with the profit (yes of course profit you silly people, think that all this work that T'Amber has done should be for nothing?) after the lottery had ended. However, the profit and then some was spent on the spot prizes just to keep people happy. Consequently this has basically left me out of game as I am a mission runner - no ships = no missions
My mission running ship was replaced for a total of two days before it had to be reclaimed for SOE2 due to lack of isk (Golem with T2 rigs). After SOE2 began I have actually resorted to running missions on the test server just so that I can have a bit of eve related fun.
This has come across as a bit of a gripe, and I guess it is, it is just so offensive to all those involved for unintelligent, unthought out, rediculous accusations, and unjustified pokes at what T'Amber, F9 and so many others have tried so damn hard to make fair to all. Especially with the minimal profit margins that might be possible if these said posts didn't force T'amber into believing that giving away the potential profit as spot prizes is the right thing to do - never mind that the isk for the next lottery has been greatly reduced resulting in a lottery that will not be as rad as it could have been.
There was a post earlier which went along the lines of;
Real life is more important than VR or Eve
As I understand it F9 got called out to work, so he drew the numbers before the official draw time. Therefore the numbers drawn at that time could not possibly be the official numbers. Really and truly there was no option but to do a delayed draw. Those that actually thought about it for a second would have realised that too.
Thats enough of a gripe from me, I hope that the majority of you have enjoyed the lottery's and associated events so far and hope that you keep on "playing" - after all it is still a game isnt it??
Congratulations to those that won something, and better luck next time to those that didn't.
ps. Looking foward to the "Banned List" from T'amber, there are quite a few that have posted here that I would like to see on it.
pps. Yes, Yes, "Holy wall of text Batman", or "I have not seen a wall like that since I was in China". I know, I feel better now though 
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e30089
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.08.11 01:07:00 -
[990]
Also, with ahhhllllll of the negative posts, thank you to those that have posted positively, it makes it makes my loss (although temporary - I hope) somewhat more bearable , and thank you to those that have posted with advise and ideas, I know that T'Amber appreciates it.
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