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Enihcam Xes
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Posted - 2009.07.29 00:19:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Enihcam Xes on 29/07/2009 00:19:52
It's my understanding that macro miners have difficulty moving the tremendous volumes of minerals they harvest.
I've never run a macro miner (or mined at all, actually), but this makes sense. If you try to dump 5-10bil of a single mineral you have to babysit your orders for quite a while. If you sell to buy orders the price plummets pretty quick.
I always assumed that a lot of the stupid underpriced stuff in Jita is from those miners running off whatever and selling for 5-10% below production cost to disburse the bulk of their minerals a little.
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Josiane Lachance
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Posted - 2009.07.30 04:49:00 -
[32]
Very interesting topic : I gave up the frigates production myself, because of the insane prices. I wonder : how do you know how much minerals you will get from reprocessing a ship that you see on the market ? I can do this easily on an item in my hangar, but before buying it ?
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.07.30 05:54:00 -
[33]
my spreadsheets show what the base mineral cost is on everythig based on my latest price dump
I always base my sale price on 120% the current "base" mineral price And costs.
However I place buy orders for minerals at 80-90% of the current mineral price.
for me if something does not get sold, then I simply dont make another production run of that item untill I need to replace inventory.
I also stay the heck away from Jita.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Dranakolys
Gallente
Theurgy
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:00:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
So I sell it at what is then technically 3% over margin and the next one currently in the cooker gets marked up correctly cause really, we needed the capital to keep the production line moving.
I am assuming you've been doing this for a long time, but do you really not have the liquidity?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.07.30 13:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dranakolys
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
So I sell it at what is then technically 3% over margin and the next one currently in the cooker gets marked up correctly cause really, we needed the capital to keep the production line moving.
I am assuming you've been doing this for a long time, but do you really not have the liquidity?
Suprisingly... no I don't
When 70% of your wallet is tied up in escrow and long term trades, 10% into third party investments, and the remainder involved in manufacturing it really doesn't leave much room to wiggle sometimes.
I've found that often its more important to keep the velocity of your isk as high as possible when you get into amounts over 100b.
Even more so now that I've gotten more heavily into capital production. |
Shrug123
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Posted - 2009.07.30 13:26:00 -
[36]
When I first started (before I got my refining skills on the up) I used to do just that - Mine on days when I was working at home, compare the best price for the ore I was mining vs the best price I could get in region for the minerals if I refined, and then just haul it over and sell for quick pocket money. Then I started to get into manufacture - but I had conflicting advice from corp mates. One told me to buy my BPOs and sling them for ever in Research (logical but boring) and the other had BPOs for everything and blindly made and sold everything, regardless of whether it was a good selling product.
I settled for... quick turnovers of Ammo and a ledger in a spreadsheet and tried to only buy more BPOs for better items when I finally made a bit of a profit. The actual mineral price etc I never really incorporated into the ledger simply because on my working at home days - I mine and sell for capital, and in the evening when I collapse comatose in front of the TV - I stockpile mine for manufacture... and never really got into tracking the price of the mined mins against the ledger... but as the weather is forecast to throw it down and if I get bored of trying to grind out missions, I might start to introduce that and see the effect.
I too have abandoned Jita - I got tired of repetitively jumping back to the Perimeter Gate every time!!!
Now I've gotten into a Research Alliance too - it prolly makes more sense to track total profit against current mineral prices now I have some decent ME levels...
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2009.07.30 13:53:00 -
[37]
While assuming another player in eve is rational might be hard to swallow, maybe they can just compete better than you can. Maybe, they are liquidating V'xtera's failed IPO. Maybe they get thier minerals very cheap and manufacture cheaper than you do. I think it's a little unfair to assume people do not know costs to manufacture, they probably have valid reasons for doing it. Although I did see an light assault missile fit raven the other day... That one is hard to swallow.
Buy out and reprocess. They get their isk and you get your minerals. Lol at the person that suggested components are easier to move than minerals.
-GV
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machkil
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Posted - 2009.07.30 14:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Garreck
Maybe I'm missing the point? I'm simply trying to propose why people would be selling at prices that, on the surface, don't make sense.
Your point assumes that selling the raws takes longer, which in most cases is not true.
Selene is right. An advantage to trading minerals is that turnover will be faster than less often used components like cap. components.
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Dranakolys
Gallente
Theurgy
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Dranakolys
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
So I sell it at what is then technically 3% over margin and the next one currently in the cooker gets marked up correctly cause really, we needed the capital to keep the production line moving.
I am assuming you've been doing this for a long time, but do you really not have the liquidity?
Suprisingly... no I don't
When 70% of your wallet is tied up in escrow and long term trades, 10% into third party investments, and the remainder involved in manufacturing it really doesn't leave much room to wiggle sometimes.
I've found that often its more important to keep the velocity of your isk as high as possible when you get into amounts over 100b.
Even more so now that I've gotten more heavily into capital production.
In that case those third party investment money can be put to better use in your own business, maybe not for outright better returns, but ohgod the risk 
But why I asked is, while I understand this problem (and went through it myself) in the early days of my "business", why is this a continual problem if your business is profitable? Or are you still expanding? (I am making assumptions on how long you've been at this, around 18 months).
I'm currently about a year past the point where I could care to expand further, and have been utilising free ISK either in allowing me to do less work or putting it to work in other less time consuming activities. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:26:00 -
[40]
I've moved my trading into a long term approach. I setup lots of high volume buy orders for various items and likewise for sell orders for inventory. I set prices where I think the items will move and then just wait out those 3 months. The benefit of this is that I only have to check the orders once or twice a week, and I get a nice steady percentage from the movements. Any profit from this goes right back into another order.
And while I could likely pull out third party investments and keep things more liquid. Its more of a hobby than an actual viable market goal. So I do it for the fun.
The capital end is expanding. I started it with the goal of getting what I need for a single freighter and moving on up slowly into more than one a month, then into Orca's and then carriers and now dreads. I'm also dabbling in Titan and Mom parts as well. |
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