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Auctioning 5 Billion in Bonds, T-I-F Bond 4

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Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.07.27 05:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Bankimus Originally by: Sugar Jugs 5 bonds (2.5b) @ 6% Sigh! Here we go... No offense to Sugar Jugs, do what ya gotta do. However, this is the reason I hate this format. It will certainly now get below a respectable investment grade. You're still in there Bankimus and unless there are more lower bids, the rate TIF would have to pay is still 11%. The reason/advantage of making a low bid is to pretty much guarantee that you will get a piece of the issue and the chances are that you will get a much higher rate than the bid you made. It's been known, in the past, for people to make 0% bids to make sure that they get their quota but as interest has to be paid at the highest bid that fulfills the auction, they know that they will be earning more than 0%.
RothimusPrime Honored By Death	Posted - 2009.07.27 05:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Kitchie Originally by: Bankimus Originally by: Sugar Jugs 5 bonds (2.5b) @ 6% Sigh! Here we go... No offense to Sugar Jugs, do what ya gotta do. However, this is the reason I hate this format. It will certainly now get below a respectable investment grade. You're still in there Bankimus and unless there are more lower bids, the rate TIF would have to pay is still 11%. The reason/advantage of making a low bid is to pretty much guarantee that you will get a piece of the issue and the chances are that you will get a much higher rate than the bid you made. It's been known, in the past, for people to make 0% bids to make sure that they get their quota but as interest has to be paid at the highest bid that fulfills the auction, they know that they will be earning more than 0%. While what you say is true, this offer is set to bid through wednesday. In my experience w/ this type of offering, it will easily become a bid war down to the 3-4% range. This definitely becomes the case when a bidder undercuts the high bid by such a significant percentage and on a quarter of the offering. It is what it is, and certainly better for the OP. However, I just oppose this type of offering due to the sheer nature of MD and the investment opportunities available. You have multiple reputable regulars that can basically buy up an entire offering at any rate...this is good for the OP but, I believe, hurts the overall point. I feel that those offering investments should set a return they can handle and profit from, then announce their offering. Just my opinion of the matter
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.27 05:55:00 - [33] Originally by: RothimusPrime While what you say is true, this offer is set to bid through wednesday. In my experience w/ this type of offering, it will easily become a bid war down to the 3-4% range. This definitely becomes the case when a bidder undercuts the high bid by such a significant percentage and on a quarter of the offering. It is what it is, and certainly better for the OP. However, I just oppose this type of offering due to the sheer nature of MD and the investment opportunities available. You have multiple reputable regulars that can basically buy up an entire offering at any rate...this is good for the OP but, I believe, hurts the overall point. I feel that those offering investments should set a return they can handle and profit from, then announce their offering. Just my opinion of the matter I understand your position completely, however I feel as though changing the policy this far in just serves to alienate what is to become the largest investor of the bond. If Sugar Jugs agrees, I would be willing to set the maximum investment to 2 or 3 bonds a person, allowing a minimum of 3-5 investors. For any future offerings of this sort I will try to keep this in mind. Thanks for the input!
RothimusPrime Honored By Death	Posted - 2009.07.27 06:15:00 - [34] Originally by: James Tundra Originally by: RothimusPrime While what you say is true, this offer is set to bid through wednesday. In my experience w/ this type of offering, it will easily become a bid war down to the 3-4% range. This definitely becomes the case when a bidder undercuts the high bid by such a significant percentage and on a quarter of the offering. It is what it is, and certainly better for the OP. However, I just oppose this type of offering due to the sheer nature of MD and the investment opportunities available. You have multiple reputable regulars that can basically buy up an entire offering at any rate...this is good for the OP but, I believe, hurts the overall point. I feel that those offering investments should set a return they can handle and profit from, then announce their offering. Just my opinion of the matter I understand your position completely, however I feel as though changing the policy this far in just serves to alienate what is to become the largest investor of the bond. If Sugar Jugs agrees, I would be willing to set the maximum investment to 2 or 3 bonds a person, allowing a minimum of 3-5 investors. For any future offerings of this sort I will try to keep this in mind. Thanks for the input! I definitely understand that changing your terms after the fact would not help your cause, nor be appropriate. However, I appreciate your understanding of my opinion. I invested in your last offering (Bankimus) and was certainly pleased with the succesful outcome. Obviously would like to continue with this offering, but only at a high enough return
Sugar Jugs Juggalicious	Posted - 2009.07.27 06:51:00 - [35] I am agreeable to reducing the number of bonds allowed per person. Hell, 1 bond per is fine by me, I just think its ludicrous (sp?) for you to be paying more than 7% (as with previous bonds). I would consider this a good investment @ 6%, hence my bid. The chance of James scamming is zero. If he wanted to scam 5b he would have done it last time. Hit by a bus/wife leaves/ISP goes broke is entirely another scenario and this is reflected in the 6% I offered.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.27 06:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/07/2009 07:00:22 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/07/2009 06:59:51 Quote: While what you say is true, this offer is set to bid through wednesday. In my experience w/ this type of offering, it will easily become a bid war down to the 3-4% range. This definitely becomes the case when a bidder undercuts the high bid by such a significant percentage and on a quarter of the offering Please disregard the fact I am the auditor of this bond and posting "personally": isn't the whole point of Dutch Auction that sooner or later the Investee gets exactly "metered" for the perceived risk he poses? I mean, if people will go down to 4% it's exactly because James is believed to be reliable enough to have to pay 4%. Said that, I understand your POV and I know you are one of those few Investors taking his role very seriously and for good profit. Edit: Grr typos - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.27 07:02:00 - [37] Brief discussion in this thread with the primary bond bidder has allowed the rules to change allowing a maximum of 2 Bonds per individual or 1b ISK. Please refer to the bidding reply for the current minimum bid. Thanks for the suggestion Bankimus!
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.07.27 13:22:00 - [38] Edited by: Saehta on 27/07/2009 13:23:59 Originally by: Sugar Jugs 5 bonds (2.5b) @ 6% really? from 10 to 6 huh? ok... Also your post says that 11% is the (EDIT: Lowest) you can bid so anything under that is not valid
Ze4K DK Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.27 13:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Saehta Also your post says that 11% is the (EDIT: Lowest) you can bid so anything under that is not valid Err... Yeah... It's the other way around mate, i'm pretty sure... 11% is the highest he'll be willing to pay...
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.07.27 13:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Ze4K DK Originally by: Saehta Also your post says that 11% is the (EDIT: Lowest) you can bid so anything under that is not valid Err... Yeah... It's the other way around mate, i'm pretty sure... 11% is the highest he'll be willing to pay... /me facepalms her head slowly.
Traderguy Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.27 14:03:00 - [41] 10% --2 -- Traderguy
Ras Blumin Mutated Miners Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.27 14:28:00 - [42] 1 @ 10%.
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.27 16:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Saehta Originally by: Ze4K DK Originally by: Saehta Also your post says that 11% is the (EDIT: Lowest) you can bid so anything under that is not valid Err... Yeah... It's the other way around mate, i'm pretty sure... 11% is the highest he'll be willing to pay... /me facepalms her head slowly. I can confirm this is correct, 11 is the highest you may bid. Keep in mind this is a dutch auction, so even if you bid at 9.5% or 1.5%, and the highest rate that fills the auction is 11%, the rate paid is the 11%
Contralto GCHQ	Posted - 2009.07.27 17:28:00 - [44] Edited by: Contralto on 27/07/2009 17:28:52 10% -- 2 -- Contralto Edit changed to 2
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.28 02:23:00 - [45] Keep the bids coming! Please refer to the bids posting for the current maximum bid. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1129305&page=1#5 Largest bid that can be placed is 2 bids. The bidding will stop on Friday, so get your bids in before then!
Ras Blumin Mutated Miners Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.28 10:59:00 - [46] Edited by: Ras Blumin on 28/07/2009 11:00:05 update: 1 @ 8%
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.28 21:04:00 - [47] All bids have been updated. Keep the bids coming!
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.07.29 00:11:00 - [48] 9.5% -- 2 -- Kapila Parthalan
Hashimoto Hoshiko Caldari Hashimoto Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.29 00:18:00 - [49] 10% -- 2 -- Hashimoto Hoshiko
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.07.29 00:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Hashimoto Hoshiko 10% -- 2 -- Hashimoto Hoshiko Your bid is too high. Unless someone cancels, this is already filled at or below 10%.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.07.29 02:53:00 - [51] I'd like to bid one bond at 9.5%
Hashimoto Hoshiko Caldari Hashimoto Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.29 03:24:00 - [52] 8% - 2 bonds.
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2009.07.29 06:13:00 - [53] 6% - 2 - Marbo Slyder
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.29 06:38:00 - [54] Keep the bids coming guys! Bid list has been updated. Refer to bid list for maximum bid.
Marnurn	Posted - 2009.07.29 08:16:00 - [55] 2 bonds at 6 percent.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.07.29 10:06:00 - [56] 1 bond at 8%
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.07.29 10:49:00 - [57] 2 at 7.5%
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.07.29 12:07:00 - [58] 1 bond at 6%
Ashleelolz	Posted - 2009.07.29 16:44:00 - [59] 2 @ 7%
James Tundra Gallente Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.07.29 17:54:00 - [60] Bidding list has been updated.

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