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mooN4Pie	Posted - 2009.07.27 22:57:00 - [1] What is the best fit for a harbinger with no rigs nor TII for L3 missions ? I don't know what I'm doing wrong but so far it's very hard for me to complete a l3 mission on my harb without returning 10 times to the nearest station for repairs ... also my firing range is just 10km using pulse lasers with multifrequency crystals.... i know that they are for short to medium ranges but come onnnnn 10 km ? Sorry for asking such noobish questions but i just started playing :) hope you'll get over it. Thanks
Toriessian Amarr Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:36:00 - [2] 1 - Post your fit and I can suggest some improvements. 2 - Pulse lasers are short range. In a harbi with a bad tank that will get you killed. Until you skill up and get a cap stable dual repper tank on it, you might want to consider switching to a heavy beam setup with radio + an AB to up your speed and control range. I was able to hit out to almost 50k with this. With warrior II's for the frigs I was able to complete My Sweet Privateer. Oh yeah carry multiple types of crystals. Radio will likely hit to almost 20 km with medium pulses.
Lucius Tark'in Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:40:00 - [3] IMHO you should try with a Prophecy : this one has a better tanking capability (looks like it's the problem you encounter). Put some beam lasers on it. The Harbinger is fine, once you are confortable with lvl3's. Harbinger is worth something once you are able to fit T2 guns on it and kill enough ennemies in a short time to diminish pressure on your tank. I also started lvl3s with an Harbi, but I also had an hard time fitting it and tanking. With the Prophecy, lvl3's were a lot easier... What you need to get your Harbinger ready for lvl3's : - 7 x Heavy Beam Laser II (You'll need Advanced Weapon Upgrades at a high level.) or 7x Heavy Pulse Laser II - 3x Cap Recharger II - Some mid slot module fitting your needs (webifier if going for beams may be a good idea) - 1x Medium Armor Repairer II - 4x Rats specific hardeners Tech II (or you'll pass more time travelling to the station than killing your foes) - Some low slot module fit... you know the drill ^^ - Some Tech II drones (Tech I aren't worth anything on lvl3's) That's just a suggestion... I'm not flying BC anymore in PvE.
Elisabeth Tark'In	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Elisabeth Tark''In on 27/07/2009 23:42:48 Originally by: Toriessian 1 - Post your fit and I can suggest some improvements. 2 - Pulse lasers are short range. In a harbi with a bad tank that will get you killed. Until you skill up and get a cap stable dual repper tank on it, you might want to consider switching to a heavy beam setup with radio + an AB to up your speed and control range. I was able to hit out to almost 50k with this. With warrior II's for the frigs I was able to complete My Sweet Privateer. Oh yeah carry multiple types of crystals. Radio will likely hit to almost 20 km with medium pulses. QFT ! I agree about the AB... Fine med slot module if you're running with pulses. About the ammo : ALWAYS take different ammos... //Posted with my wrong toon :p//
mooN4Pie	Posted - 2009.07.27 23:49:00 - [5] Edited by: mooN4Pie on 27/07/2009 23:49:41 Ok... so here it is my terrible harb what's so wrong about it i don't get it ?
Toriessian Amarr Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation	Posted - 2009.07.28 00:06:00 - [6] Mixed guns is your first problem. I know its likely a "cannot fit" issue but scale down to regular medium beams. Would not recommend regular medium pulses with your tank. Highs 7X medium beams (6X heavy beams if you can fit) tractor Mediums 1x AB 3X cap recharger IIs Lows 2x mission specific hardeners 1x DCU II 1x HS II or tracking enhancer 2x MAR IIs 10 light drones for frigs You won't be cap stable with both medium armor repper II's without better skills and rigs but even being able to pulse that second repper will help a ton. Lvl 3 mission rats don't have that many HP so even another 60 seconds in the fight will likely save you. It worked for me but I am by no means an expert mission runner.
Lucius Tark'in Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.07.28 00:13:00 - [7] 1 - The guns : If you can't fit Tech II guns, use at least best named (wich cost a lot more) + You have 7 turret slots, use them. Salvaging and looting comes second (well... for now). 2 - Aren't you low on capacitor ? I wasn't able to be cap stable with less than 3 cap recharger... 3 - On the low slots : Tech II or best named. Your fit isn't bad at all... but it just won't stand the beating of most of lvl 3s. If I were you, I'd exchange the Damage Control II (very nice module though) with another hardener. To summarize : you should invest more isks in your modules (I know they can cost a lot), or improve your skills to fit T2s. Those small +5% in efficiency can make a hell of a difference. As a last word before going to sleep : I fleed the same ship with the same fitting (most of it) and wasn't able to avoid getting killed... So, don't fear about your playing skills... You just need better tools to get the work done. Thanks for playing Amarr ;)
mooN4Pie	Posted - 2009.07.28 11:14:00 - [8] Thanks for the replies. One more question though ... if i sell my harb i'll have in total about 100 mil... isn't it easier cheaper and faster just to buy another ship ? like a bs ? And in that case what ship should i buy ? I'm leaning towards an Apocalypse right now :)
Clappy Funt	Posted - 2009.07.28 11:45:00 - [9] Originally by: mooN4Pie Thanks for the replies. One more question though ... if i sell my harb i'll have in total about 100 mil... isn't it easier cheaper and faster just to buy another ship ? like a bs ? And in that case what ship should i buy ? I'm leaning towards an Apocalypse right now :) A brief note of caution. With the one notable exception of the Dominix, getting into a BS for level 3's is normally a downgrade in many ways. A BS can relatively easily be made impervious to the dps in 3's, but can take a VERY long time to kill stuff. 3's are based on cruisers and BS's get bonuses to BS sized weaps. Hard to hit cruisers well with most of them. You end up doing a huge amount of your damage with your drones, and your drone skills might not be godly yet, either. If it won't make you angry to nearly cheat, you can always cross train quick to a drake. 60k + dps range and choice of damage types. Godly tank. Horrifically effective cookie cutter level 3 boat for the masses. It's like playing Eve on tutorial mode. Might ruin the game for you, though, if you are the type to appreciate a challenge.
mooN4Pie	Posted - 2009.07.28 12:12:00 - [10] Edited by: mooN4Pie on 28/07/2009 12:15:39 I have no skills for the Drake... maybe switching to a prophecy like Lucius said would be a good ideea ? I'll have the skills in 2 days to use hammerhead II drones so maybe a switch to an armageddon or apocalypse wouldn't be such a bad ideea!
Yuh Fahn	Posted - 2009.07.28 12:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Yuh Fahn on 28/07/2009 12:55:41 Edited by: Yuh Fahn on 28/07/2009 12:55:17 So far, everyone posting here is telling you that switching to a BS when you can't run a lvl3 in a BC IS a bad idea. Ignore them at your peril, just please please don't post some thread about EVE being broken because you can't do level 3s like some posters have done. A Harbinger is a great ship and if you take the advice given here you will find yourself enjoying it. As numerous people have told you, drop the mix of salvaging and missioning and focus on the mission (more guns). Initially use beams to give you better control of range, as you skill up you can go pulses and get down and dirty. The drone skills will only help you in the Harbinger - it has a 50 m3 drone bay, stick two sets of lights (or 1 set of mediums if you have to). The setups given here will allow the harby to melt cruisers and hammer through BCs in the missions. A set of light drones will dice up the frigates. Make sure your overview is set to show EWAR effects and focus your drones on any frigate webbing or scrambling you first. Don't go for a BS just cause your scared of lvl3s, you will only pick up bad habits (like aggroing everything since you can tank) that will get you killed in level 4s. Good Luck. Edit: my harby fit is pretty much what Toriessian posted. Its a good fit to start.
Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2009.07.28 14:00:00 - [12] Edited by: Julia Venatrix on 28/07/2009 14:01:10 OK, here's a Harby that sort of works OK. 7x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I Note that best named beams are cheaper than best named pulse. Microwave go almost as far as radio but have much better damage, btw. It's worth spending the money for faction MF xtals. I don't think it's worth it for any longer-ranged ones - YMMV. 3x Cap recharger (T2 or Eutectic) Afterburner (T2 or YS-8) You will still be haemorrhaging cap unless you fit some CCC rigs. Luckily, the next patch should make them a bit cheaper. 4x Hardeners (T2 or N-type) Accomodation MAR Power Diagnostic System (the best you can fit) Hardeners are either 2x2 or Exp/Kin/Therm Hardener + EANM. You'll need some support skills to fit this all (Electronics and Engineering particularly) - otherwise you'll need to swap the PDS for an RCU for grid. --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.28 16:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Julia Venatrix 7x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I 3x Cap recharger (T2 or Eutectic) Afterburner (T2 or YS-8) 4x Hardeners (T2 or N-type) Accomodation MAR Power Diagnostic System (the best you can fit) That looks really solid for a low-skilled Harbinger, in my opinion. As you get more confidence in your tank and how to fly it to keep range and minimise incoming damage, it's worth swapping the PDS and/or some hardeners for more heat sinks. Remember, extra tank (above what's needed to survive) doesn't gain you anything, but extra damage means you always finish missions faster. Obviously it's best to sstart cautiously, but once you're comfortable try removing one tanking mod at a time for an extra heat sink (up to 2-3 heatsinks) and see how it flies.
HrunTheBarbarian	Posted - 2009.07.29 02:08:00 - [14] Yeah, you'd be better with focused medium beams (or heavy beams if you can spare the grid for them) an afterburner, 1 medium rep and plenty of resistance. Once you've got your skills up and can fit T2 guns, look at fitting pulse lasers. A full rack of heavy pulse lasers will kick out to 20k+ with scorch, and will track small stuff more easily in web range with Multifrequency or Gamma. Once you have the skills to fit T2 lasers and you know how to manage groups more easily with them you can start replacing some of your tank with more damage. For a well skilled unrigged Harbinger something like this destroys all lvl 3's fairly easily: [Harbinger, Turbo lvl 3 boat] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hammerhead II x5 You might well need to swap the web or the TC for named to get the CPU to fit, I use an implant for that.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels	Posted - 2009.07.29 13:27:00 - [15] Originally by: mooN4Pie What is the best fit for a harbinger with no rigs nor TII for L3 missions ? I don't know what I'm doing wrong but so far it's very hard for me to complete a l3 mission on my harb without returning 10 times to the nearest station for repairs ... also my firing range is just 10km using pulse lasers with multifrequency crystals.... i know that they are for short to medium ranges but come onnnnn 10 km ? Sorry for asking such noobish questions but i just started playing :) hope you'll get over it. Thanks [Harbinger, DPS] N-Type Kinetic Hardener I N-Type Thermic Hardener I Damage Control II N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I Heat Sink II Medium Armor Repairer II 10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin I x5 Hobgoblin I x5 There is absolutely no excuse for not using T2 Cap Rechargers or T2 Damage control. Click for gallery!
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels	Posted - 2009.07.29 13:36:00 - [16] Originally by: HrunTheBarbarian Yeah, you'd be better with focused medium beams (or heavy beams if you can spare the grid for them) an afterburner, 1 medium rep and plenty of resistance. Once you've got your skills up and can fit T2 guns, look at fitting pulse lasers. A full rack of heavy pulse lasers will kick out to 20k+ with scorch, and will track small stuff more easily in web range with Multifrequency or Gamma. Once you have the skills to fit T2 lasers and you know how to manage groups more easily with them you can start replacing some of your tank with more damage. For a well skilled unrigged Harbinger something like this destroys all lvl 3's fairly easily: [Harbinger, Turbo lvl 3 boat] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hammerhead II x5 You might well need to swap the web or the TC for named to get the CPU to fit, I use an implant for that. tracking computer? Why? Anyway, when I last ran level 3's this is how I had my harbinger fit. Feel free to laugh =) but it got things done quick. [Harbinger, Level 3 Blitzer] Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 10MN Afterburner II (Microwarpdrive in missions without deadspace) Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Click for gallery!
HrunTheBarbarian	Posted - 2009.07.29 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Sader Rykane tracking computer? Why? Well, the ship doesn't really need any more cap recharge with good skills and it's already got a web. Tracking computer lets you engage stuff a little bit further away and will help nail frigs that get on top of you.
Kazinator	Posted - 2009.07.31 03:50:00 - [18] So i have a question about how you fly your ship. I found that sometimes to kill certain spawns fast enough (i.e. jammer spawns) i figured my best bet was to maximize my own damage by using keep distance to reduce transversial velocity. I am also using a stasis webber so i end up moving very slowly while trying to kill. But if i use say orbit then i get some misses which make me take longer to kill my target. So is it worth taking extra damage or should i be orbitting? TL:DR What option do you use when killing say jammer spawns?
aDore Velr	Posted - 2009.07.31 07:56:00 - [19] I just wait until they stop jamming or grab agro and let my drones lose while waiting until the jam stops?... I mostly kill Frigs from 50km's on with (Microwave) and when the frigs are gone i charge the cruisers/bc with Multifreq.
Xandr0ss	Posted - 2009.09.08 12:53:00 - [20] Interesting, I was wondering if someone could post a Harby fit that doesn't require named or tier 2 modules (i'm on a budget).
small chimp	Posted - 2009.09.08 16:38:00 - [21] [Harbinger, New Setup 2 copy 1] Amarr Navy Medium Armor Repairer Amarr Navy Armor EM Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Cap Recharger II 10MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot] Ancillary Current Router I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 30km optimal for sniping the rats! Needs some faction modules due to cpu limitations!
Ran Khanon	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:41:00 - [22] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 08/09/2009 18:45:34 Edited by: Ran Khanon on 08/09/2009 18:44:01 I did every lvl 3 with a harb including angel extravaganza bonus level (leave drones behind you, warp out, warp in again, drop new drones and have them attack first to get rid of the BS agro) and all under 1,5 mil SP. The only t2 mods I used are a med repper and cap rechargers. + I used a few armor rigs. Gunwise I used 6 t1 heavy beams M and had two slots to spare for salv and tractor. Great to do lvl3's with this, in my opinion. Make sure to pop frigs first and keep your distance at all times and you won't get so much damage as with dogfighting with pulses. With radio's you can start pewpewing at your max locking range. I'm still doing lvl 3's but since recently with an Abaddon. Missions do go a little faster now but sadly I am much more of a ninja salvager magnet since they think I am doing lvl 4's I guess. Keep your harb! Try different guns and tactics and save up for a BS in addition to that. edits: typo's
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2009.09.08 19:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Yuh Fahn So far, everyone posting here is telling you that switching to a BS when you can't run a lvl3 in a BC IS a bad idea. Lets look at tracking. Heavy guns on a harbi start with base tracking of 0.033. Large pulse on an Abaddon start with 0.03375. ie the tracking similar. The range for an Abaddon with 8x pulses is bit better than harbi with heavy beams, ie you can hit further. You have much more cap/armor/gank/tank/module space on the abaddon and somehow this adds up to less? You have 75 mtrs of drone space so can fit 5 small and 5 med drones - ie more flexible. I fit a webber so can slow clsoer stuff so my pulses can pound away. Add angular velocity to your overview and know your guns tracking. You do need a little 'fudge factor' in that large guns hitting smaller targets need an margin, but it works well so you know if worth even shooting at a target. To sum up, a Battleship on lvl 3's is over kill, but it helps a lot if you need more tank, more gank. Take some level 3's that a harbi will struggle with. - New Frontiers 2/7, 5/7. These have heavy neuts that will suck a harbi dry and require a warp out to survive. Shoot the neuts and you need to close as the neuts were too far away (56-63 km when I did) plus spawn more ships. But do in a battleship, shug off the neuts and damage. - Kidnappers 10/10 last pocket. I know you dont need to kill these ships to complete, can kill the tower and warp out. I have done in a harby with low skills but its a pain (and time consuming to warp out) as 4x battleships + change too much while a battleship shrugs off this kind of damage. My navy apoc I can agro/tank the whole pocket (8 battleships + change) but thats another story. - AE3 bonus pocket. Again this is like a level 4 mission, and the harbi is struggling to cope in the tank/gank with low skills. Apart from that, harbi works well in lvl 3's.
Solaris233	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:47:00 - [24] i had to help out a harbinger in my drake doing a l3 mission the guy had trouble taking out frigs and battlecruisers. I have low skills points but the fact that he couldn't complete that mission was astounding it was very easy.
Bo'Tox Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.10 22:30:00 - [25] Torressian is right. I did L3's in a harby but with T2 beam guns and crystals. Hit them at range b4 they can get close (especially by hitting any NOS at range b4 the agro starts...)
jst tstng	Posted - 2009.09.11 12:09:00 - [26] Edited by: jst tstng on 11/09/2009 12:09:27 Get T2 repairer asap, put on beams, loose a salvager, replace the web with another caprecharger and medium drones. Oh wait let me post that. [Harbinger, PvE Harbinger] Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II N-Type Kinetic Hardener I Damage Control II N-Type Thermic Hardener I Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I 10MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Focused Afocal Medium Maser I, Multifrequency M Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Hammerhead I x5 I did a whole lot of L3 missions on a two week old character to get to 8 standings recently. The only missions i remember being hard was the gallente one with the 4 miners because of the two frigates that web you. If the npcs get too close to you for your guns to hit start motoring away so they start approaching you again.
Leather Jack	Posted - 2009.09.12 06:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Originally by: Yuh Fahn So far, everyone posting here is telling you that switching to a BS when you can't run a lvl3 in a BC IS a bad idea. Lets look at tracking.... It's not just about tracking Irdia. You forgot to add Signature Resolution in your calculations. The difference between a 125m sig res and 400m sig res is quite a lot tbh when is comes to gettting good hits. Telling ppl that a BS is overkill due to more gank than a BC, when talking about L3 missions is therefore missleading in my opinion. Especially when is comes to new players with low SP (I.E. low gunnery support skills). It takes much more SP to efficiently make use of Battleship sized guns than Cruiser sized ones. Now, to the point of surviving L3 missions, a battleship can sport a better tank. But surviving L3's and making good use of your gunnery is to me two different topics. To OP: You have been given a lot of good advice in this thread, I suggest you follow them. Stick to your harbinger, it's one of the best Battlecruisers out there. Just my 2 ISK.

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