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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.30 23:58:00 -
[1]
As the subject says, how is the base-price of an item calculated?
as an example, EVEMon says the base price of a Sin is 129,179,556 ISK but they seem to sell for 760 million ISK - where does this discrepancy come from? is the 'base price' just the cost of raw materials or something?
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Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:00:00 -
[2]
it was set by the devs when they made the game
x
Yay! Six months of defending! \o/ <3 to Abrazzar! |
voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:15:00 -
[3]
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Ships that have no mineral costs, have no base price either. This applies for Rookie Ships.
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:19:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
it was set by the devs when they made the game
x
if you don't know anything useful, it's ok not to post.
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Miss Razor
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
it was set by the devs when they made the game
x
if you don't know anything useful, it's ok not to post.
your an idiot this is actualy true
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minings hard work these days
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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: voogru
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Ships that have no mineral costs, have no base price either. This applies for Rookie Ships.
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
thank you - but how is there such a discrepency between the base mineral cost and the actual cost? People obviously can't be making 600 million profit per BlackOps ship, can they?
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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miss Razor
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
it was set by the devs when they made the game
x
if you don't know anything useful, it's ok not to post.
your an idiot this is actualy true
i'm presuming you mean "you're an idiot", idiot?
and I'm aware the devs set it, i was asking how it was calculated.
obviously, complicated concepts for you, you idiot.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
it was set by the devs when they made the game
if you don't know anything useful, it's ok not to post.
If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.
He's quite right, you know… or at least close enough not to make any difference.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
it was set by the devs when they made the game
if you don't know anything useful, it's ok not to post.
If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.
He's quite right, you knową or at least close enough not to make any difference.
so, they just pulled the 'base price' from their butts? no reason for it, no logic behind it, they just rolled some D20's and came up with a random number?
awesome, thanks for the enlightening info!
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: voogru
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Ships that have no mineral costs, have no base price either. This applies for Rookie Ships.
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
thank you - but how is there such a discrepency between the base mineral cost and the actual cost? People obviously can't be making 600 million profit per BlackOps ship, can they?
Because...the...devs...set...the...price.
Why is this such a difficult concept?
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Originally by: voogru
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Ships that have no mineral costs, have no base price either. This applies for Rookie Ships.
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
thank you - but how is there such a discrepency between the base mineral cost and the actual cost? People obviously can't be making 600 million profit per BlackOps ship, can they?
Because...the...devs...set...the...price.
Why is this such a difficult concept?
telling me again that "the wizards, i mean Devs, set it" doesn't actually give any clearer info or answer to the question, it just makes you look like a bleating sheep.
I was asking - pretty clearly i thought - the logic behind their thinking. I GET that they set the price, i was asking HOW or WHY this was the price so I could understand the mechanism a little better.
why is this such a difficult concept?
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:31:00 -
[12]
As a useful aside, if you'd like to know the quick and easy way of finding out the mineral value of any item, check out the Eve Recycler at eveinfo.com/recycler.
You put in the value of minerals, save it, then go through the entire item database (like the market interface) and it tells you the mineral value of anything. :) I keep it bookmarked, its very handy!
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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
As a useful aside, if you'd like to know the quick and easy way of finding out the mineral value of any item, check out the Eve Recycler at eveinfo.com/recycler.
You put in the value of minerals, save it, then go through the entire item database (like the market interface) and it tells you the mineral value of anything. :) I keep it bookmarked, its very handy!
much appreciated - thank you!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
I was asking - pretty clearly i thought - the logic behind their thinking. I GET that they set the price, i was asking HOW or WHY this was the price so I could understand the mechanism a little better.
why is this such a difficult concept?
It isn't, and if you had bothered to respond without the attitude, someone just might have answered you by now…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 31/07/2009 00:35:52
Take minerals needed.
Assign value (not based on market because market changes).
Magic.
It's a simple 1 step process.
Don't worry. We'll bash you for 2-3 pages, then Akita will arrive and give you a essay on the dynamics of the process that basically translates to "the devs set the value". 
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mouth Piece
I was asking - pretty clearly i thought - the logic behind their thinking. I GET that they set the price, i was asking HOW or WHY this was the price so I could understand the mechanism a little better.
why is this such a difficult concept?
It isn't, and if you had bothered to respond without the attitude, someone just might have answered you by nową
people did - just not you nor the other retard who were more intent on being tools.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
people did
Actually, no, they didn't. They gave you pieces of the puzzle, but the question you wanted answered is still left unanswered. 
Oh, and for the record, personal attacks and evading the word filter aren't likely to endear you either.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Mouth Piece
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mouth Piece
people did
Actually, no, they didn't. They gave you pieces of the puzzle, but the question you wanted answered is still left unanswered.
Oh, and for the record, personal attacks and evading the word filter aren't likely to endear you either.
Learn to read.
Originally by: voogru
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Ships that have no mineral costs, have no base price either. This applies for Rookie Ships.
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
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Arvald
Caldari
The Lumberjacks
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:48:00 -
[19]
OP is a moron, everyone else in this thread is awesome and i am naked, nothing more needs to be said everyone move along
ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mouth Piece
Learn to read. Originally by: voogru
Base price is the sum of all of the materials/minerals that go into building the ship.
Not the whole truth, just a piece of the puzzle. It certainly doesn't explain how the base prices are set.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.07.31 00:50:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 31/07/2009 00:50:40
Voogru's response actually doesn't answer the question about how the prices of the components are calculated, just the finished product. But since it doesn't explain why tritanium costs one thing and megacyte costs another, it doesn't matter that when you add them up they equal the base price of the item. I mean it doesn't explain any underlying methodology for why the prices are set where they're set. Anyone who said they're just ballpark numbers chosen by CCP based on the relative rarity of each asteroid type or other material producing object is probably as close to correct as anyone.
But base price is an utterly meaningless concept in Eve today. It's probably been utterly meaningless for years.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltd0wn
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Posted - 2009.07.31 01:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 31/07/2009 01:02:14
Originally by: Mouth Piece
so, they just pulled the 'base price' from their butts? no reason for it, no logic behind it, they just rolled some D20's and came up with a random number?
Not entirely true but not entirely wrong either. They probably made these prices up based on "availability ratios" of the ressources. Or they were simply drunk.
But since everything isn't perfect, the demand of the different ressources doesn't follow their baseprice ratios. Neither does the availability (no player really knows).
Ressource Baseprice - Current New Eden Price
Tritanium 2.00 - 3.42
Pyerite 8.00 - 4.05
Mexallon 32.00 - 32.54
Isogen 128.00 - 56.71
Noxcium 512.00 - 68.45
Zydrine 2,048.00 - 1,655.50
Megacyte 8,192.00 - 4,611.89
Crystalline Carbonide 80.00 - 109.95
Fernite Carbide 80.00 - 39.38
Titanium Carbide 80.00 - 57.84
Tungsten Carbide 80.00 - 38.49
Sylramic Fibers 160.00 - 92.63
Fullerides 320.00 - 223.95
Phenolic Composites 640.00 - 540.44
Nanotransistors 1,280.00 - 628.99
Hypersynaptic Fibers 2,560.00 - 13,697.00
Ferrogel 5,120.00 - 69,264.65
Fermionic Condensates 10,240.00 - 95,997.99
Just compare them. I hope this clears up why a Sin doesn't cost 130m on the market.
Overly correct these Advanced Materials would need to be broken up into the raw moon materials really, but there are too many and I'm too lazy for that.
Let's just say that the Dysprosium Baseprice of 256 ipu differs slightly from the current market prices of 160,000.00 ipu. Yes, I kid you not. In CCP's baseprice calculation, the rarest set of t2 ressource moons (R64) has a daily production worth of 614,400.00 isk per day. A fraction of the control tower's fuel cost.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.07.31 01:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mioelnir
Stuff
Take note though, that the base price on minerals is doubled. This was due to an old game-mechanic that was removed from EVE.
AFAIK, anyway 
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.31 01:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: voogru
Take note though, that the base price on minerals is doubled. This was due to an old game-mechanic that was removed from EVE.
No, there used to be old NPC mineral buy orders (just look at "market activity" of the empire schools to see what I mean - you can even see when they were removed) at precisely 50% of base price, so that no individual mineral would ever fall below 50% of base price (the "mineral basket" could never fall below 70% due to insurance).
As to the OP's initial question... well... for the minerals, they pulled the numbers out of their posteriors, as powers of two (2^1 trit, 2^3 pyerite, 2^5, 2^7, 2^9, 2^11 zydrine, 2^13 megacyte, 2^15 morphite).
Then, they fiddled with the ore make-up to make it so that more valuable ores (by the BASE PRICE make-up) would be present in lower-security regions.
That worked out pretty well as long as the most in-demand (percentually, compared to base price) mineral, Tritanium, could be easily obtainable at a slightly higher price than base price via NPC sell orders and mining was a fairly decent source of minerals (again, percentually, out of the entire total).
But then, they made the mistake of introducing the drone regions, with MASSIVE highend mineral lootdrops, and they compounded that monumental mistake with removing the nigh-infinite source of relatively cheap Tritanium... and all started going to hell in a handbasket.
On the other hand, we have "moon minerals".
Here, we have five rarity tiers, and the base prices of each four materials in each of those tiers are equal to eachother, and also powers of two (not very even ones, ^1, ^3, ^4, ^6, ^8 - you'd wonder what the heck is with the 2^3 ones, why 8 instead of 4... meh):
2 - atmospheric gasses, evaporite deposits, hydrocarbons, silicates
8 - cobalt, scandium, titanium, tungsten
16 - cadmium, chromium, platinum, vanadium
64 - caesium, hafnium, mercury, technetium
256 - dysprosium, promethium, neodymium, thulium
Now... contrast THOSE base prices with the ACTUAL prices you can see on the in-game market... and considering that some of the "lower" ones are actually selling AT A LOSS compared to extraction cost... well... no comment.
Take an especially good look at the bolded ones, those are the most egregious offenders in "base price".
Before invention, the cost of those materials was pretty modest, with the T2 BPO holders hiking the price of T2 ships and modules sky-high while the manufacture cost was minimal.
Once invention kicked in, the VOLUME of materials required suddendly surged up to insane levels... and so did the prices for components, which meant the price of the most "rare" materials (demand vs availability) were growing rapidly, while most others barely grew at all.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.31 02:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 31/07/2009 02:34:10
Originally by: Akita T
As to the OP's initial question... well... for the minerals, they pulled the numbers out of their posteriors, as powers of two (2^1 trit, 2^3 pyerite, 2^5, 2^7, 2^9, 2^11 zydrine, 2^13 megacyte, 2^15 morphite).
Oh sure, throw off my predictions by a whole page. 
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar
junQtion
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Posted - 2009.07.31 02:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: voogru
And Opux Luxury Yachts.
:(
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.31 02:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Don't worry. We'll bash you for 2-3 pages, then Akita will arrive and give you a essay on the dynamics of the process that basically translates to "the devs set the value".
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Oh sure, throw off my predictions by a whole page.
By one to two pages, actually 
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
randomname4me
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Posted - 2009.07.31 03:19:00 -
[28]
trool post is trool
EVE Online: Rated RRR- For Explicit Breakfast Piercing Bullets. |
Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.31 03:23:00 -
[29]
ah this is one of those rare internet forum gems where the OP asks a question and then somehow ends up arguing with everybody who posts in it.
------
back from 90day forum ban. |
Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.31 03:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nicholas Barker
ah this is one of those rare internet forum gems where the OP asks a question and then somehow ends up arguing with everybody who posts in it.
Rare? Have you missed the threads about people getting hacked with the keyloggers? This is becoming standard form for GD.
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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JamesTalon
Caldari
The Knights Templar
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Posted - 2009.07.31 03:47:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Originally by: Nicholas Barker
ah this is one of those rare internet forum gems where the OP asks a question and then somehow ends up arguing with everybody who posts in it.
Rare? Have you missed the threads about people getting hacked with the keyloggers? This is becoming standard form for GD.
Yea, but they tend to be rather humerous 
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day." - Robert Jordan |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.31 04:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: JamesTalon
Yea, but they tend to be rather humerous
Is that "containing large amounts of water" or "related to the arm bone" ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
JamesTalon
Caldari
The Knights Templar
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Posted - 2009.07.31 04:21:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: JamesTalon
Yea, but they tend to be rather humerous
Is that "containing large amounts of water" or "related to the arm bone" ?
I'll say related to the arm bone, then I can break it
"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day." - Robert Jordan |
Criss AngeI
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Posted - 2009.07.31 05:29:00 -
[34]
obvious troll is obvious
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