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Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 52	Posted - 2012.05.26 04:07:00 - [1] - Quote So these ships were drastically reworked but their T2 variants still have: - Speed and inertia based on the older T1 variants. This results in T1 having better stats. - Both Vengeance and Harpy have damage bonus tied to Assault Ships skill which is not always trained to V. Though it may be compensated by 3 turrets instead of 4 it's still weird. - Capacitors. Merlins capacitor is superior to Harpy's. In case of Punisher it is somewhat balanced out by recharge times. Still it looks like some of the developers downgraded the ships... Should CCP buff respective AFs to the level of those frigates?
Ansel Mandisant Exiter Corp JINN. 0	Posted - 2012.05.26 04:35:00 - [2] - Quote It seems really odd to me that CCP took the racial weapon for the Caldari away from their primary T1 knockaround frigate. In essence, it seems as though what they have done is given the Caldari what amounts to a blaster pvp platform. If they were going to change the way that the Merlin fights so dramattically, why not do it in a way that didn't remove the racial weapon component from the ship?
Hail Goddess Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.05.26 07:17:00 - [3] - Quote What really got screwed was combat intereceptors. Many of whom could be smashed by t1 frigates before, but now it's p sad.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 146	Posted - 2012.05.26 13:35:00 - [4] - Quote Ansel Mandisant wrote: It seems really odd to me that CCP took the racial weapon for the Caldari away from their primary T1 knockaround frigate..... It is only that due to being the top tier frig .. once the pass is done and all frigates have been tweaked the "problem" ceases to be as Kestrel probably gets an extra slot and hopefully a twin damage bonus (or damage + exp.radius). If all goes well, tiers as we know them will be history.
Liam Mirren 520	Posted - 2012.05.26 14:52:00 - [5] - Quote CCP doesn't do logic, they don't do proper coding and they can't balance ships. The Merlin is SO overpowered it's ridiculous, to a point one really has to wonder "what were they thinking". Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Hail Goddess Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.05.26 16:27:00 - [6] - Quote I'm going to disagree with the above poster. The Merlin isn't overpowered. @tleast compared to the changes made to the Punisher and Incursus. Each frigate has one or 2 optimum setup that enables them to defeat each other. With exception. The Rifter is able to defeat a Incursus and Punisher (without a neut). Depending on the setup. Anyway. If the Rifter just had a 3 (high slot), 4 (mid slot) and 3 (low slot) layout. Throw in a Increase in power grid and a significant increase in CPU. I believe the Rifter would be alot more competitive with buffed frigates. @ the moment. The Incursus and Merlin have benifited the most out of these changes...
Liam Mirren 520	Posted - 2012.05.26 22:58:00 - [7] - Quote 175 dps, 8k EHP, AB and full tackle or a dual prop with 7+kEHP and 165 dps. That's overpowered as hell, the Punisher can't come close to that, not on dps, nor on full tackle or dual prop. That 170 dps will make mince meat of the new incursus as well, its tank+ehp simply isn't up to the task. Any rifter being foolish enough to attack a pvp fit Merlin is an idiot and will die in flames. Don't get my wrong, I don't mind it (I fly caldari only and mostly hybrid ships) but I would be a hypocrite if I stated it's on par and well balanced. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Hail Goddess Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.05.27 01:52:00 - [8] - Quote 8,000 (rounded) ehp, 170d per second. This is with a Mwd. What ship is able to put up those stats? There's another frigate recently changed that's able to field 10,000ehp. Merlin is also able to field the same ehp. Not to mention. A pilot is able to do silly things with a Incursus and Punisher when you fit a afterburner instead of a Micro-warp drive. Even when I first looked @ the new Harpy. You know, when CCP was doing thier initial changes. I knew it was ridick, but how much so was hard to say. People where so focused on the Hawk and ignored the Harpy. @tm across 2 characters. I use it as a Slicer a Jaguar or active tanked, while doing 300d per second (It excels @ everything). Still, The Ishkur is superior and Enyo is close enough in terms of long range and active tanked setups for it to be inline with the Harpy. Once optimal setups have permeated tranq. Then you might have a clearer picture of what's op or not.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3967	Posted - 2012.05.27 09:38:00 - [9] - Quote Kaikka Carel wrote: So these ships were drastically reworked but their T2 variants still have: - Speed and inertia based on the older T1 variants. This results in T1 having better stats. - Both Vengeance and Harpy have damage bonus tied to Assault Ships skill which is not always trained to V. Though it may be compensated by 3 turrets instead of 4 it's still weird. - Capacitors. Merlins capacitor is superior to Harpy's. In case of Punisher it is somewhat balanced out by recharge times. Still it looks like some of the developers downgraded the ships... Should CCP buff respective AFs to the level of those frigates? I thought that the new harpy was already excellent Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 52	Posted - 2012.05.27 09:44:00 - [10] - Quote ^Merlin would win a race.

Liam Mirren 520	Posted - 2012.05.27 10:10:00 - [11] - Quote AF being slower than its T1 counterpart, not really a shocker now is it. The Harpy is a tiny package of Awesome, its only issue is agility which isn't really Caldari's thing anyway and is compounded by being an AF. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 52	Posted - 2012.05.27 10:24:00 - [12] - Quote iirc Caldari have second best inertia after Minmatar. Harpy/Hawk and Vengeance/Retribution are really slower than their new parents. I don't say that they should be instantly buffed but just wonder why an improved(and more costly) version is worse at something so drastically. Also what about damage bonuses? Maybe some of them could be swapped between Assualt Ships and Racial Frigates?
Jerick Ludhowe Wraiths of Abaddon Byzantine Empire 81	Posted - 2012.05.27 12:59:00 - [13] - Quote Kaikka Carel wrote: So these ships were drastically reworked but their T2 variants still have: - Speed and inertia based on the older T1 variants. This results in T1 having better stats. - Both Vengeance and Harpy have damage bonus tied to Assault Ships skill which is not always trained to V. Though it may be compensated by 3 turrets instead of 4 it's still weird. - Capacitors. Merlins capacitor is superior to Harpy's. In case of Punisher it is somewhat balanced out by recharge times. Still it looks like some of the developers downgraded the ships... Should CCP buff respective AFs to the level of those frigates? Command ships never received the hp buff that tech 1 bcs received 6+ years ago resulting in the tech 1s having higher base hp values. Based on that time frame I think that this fail is here to stay just like the command ship fail of the past.
Lili Lu 238	Posted - 2012.05.27 15:28:00 - [14] - Quote Yes, the pace of the rebalancing changes does not seem to have been corrected by CCP. Be prepared for a game with many odd imbalances existing for years to come.
Trading Unknown Republic University Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.05.27 16:31:00 - [15] - Quote Quote: 8,000 (rounded) ehp, 170d per second Do you have that fit handy?
Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 52	Posted - 2012.05.27 16:40:00 - [16] - Quote Trading Unknown wrote: Quote: 8,000 (rounded) ehp, 170d per second Do you have that fit handy? [Merlin, Merlin fit] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Micro Auxiliary Power Core II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Robur Carolinum Drama Llamas Curatores Veritatis Alliance 11	Posted - 2012.05.27 17:29:00 - [17] - Quote Ansel Mandisant wrote: It seems really odd to me that CCP took the racial weapon for the Caldari away from their primary T1 knockaround frigate. In essence, it seems as though what they have done is given the Caldari what amounts to a blaster pvp platform. If they were going to change the way that the Merlin fights so dramattically, why not do it in a way that didn't remove the racial weapon component from the ship? At a guess, this was to allow a greater differentiation between the Merlin and Kestrel, which presumably will be buffed with the other missile frigs at some point in the near(ish) future.
Liam Mirren 520	Posted - 2012.05.27 17:48:00 - [18] - Quote Trading Unknown wrote: Quote: 8,000 (rounded) ehp, 170d per second Do you have that fit handy? [Merlin, PVP] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype Engine Enervator Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I [Merlin, Dual prop] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner II Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Hail Goddess Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.05.27 18:11:00 - [19] - Quote Trading Unknown wrote: Quote: 8,000 (rounded) ehp, 170d per second Do you have that fit handy? The setup I was refering to was the Incursus. It's able to put up those stats. I also, referenced the Punisher with regard to 10,000 Ehit points. The Merlin is able to gain similar stats. While the punisher cannot perma neut like a Vengeance and Retribution can. It's still able to run a neutraliser for a very long time with a warp scrambler and gatling pulse lasers active. While doing significant damage. It's able to incapacitate alot of frigates. Including many combat intereceptors (Taranis, Crusader) and assault frigates. Which translates into a GTFO module and ruines the dual armor repair Incursus. Although, the incursus is able to tank a Punishers damage on 1 armor repair (heated, with or without synth exile and capacitor booster) LOL. I'm not home and I'm about to head to a pub. I'll paste the setup later on when I get a chance. Either way. These 3 frigates (Punisher, Melrin, Incursus) are inline with each other. The Rifter is the odd man out. I've yet to figure out a way around these changes for the Rifter and many others are in the same boat. More so when dealing with the Incursus and Merlin. I see no way around it unless the Rifter leaves warp scrambler range altogether. Another issue is. These changes have made the Merlin and Incursus as good or better than thier navy faction counter-parts. WTF is up with that?
Pink Marshmellow Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 27	Posted - 2012.05.28 04:52:00 - [20] - Quote Oh boy with the Tiericide and Tech 1 ship balancing. I think EVERY ADVANCED TECH SHIP will need a makeover. Coming soon in 2020.......

Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.28 11:49:00 - [21] - Quote Pink Marshmellow wrote: Oh boy with the Tiericide and Tech 1 ship balancing. I think EVERY ADVANCED TECH SHIP will need a makeover. Coming soon in 2020....... For the meanwhile keep training destroyers 5 BC's 5 and at least enough to lvl1 all BS, lvl5 all frigs and lvl5 all cruisers, it's worthy.
Jerick Ludhowe Wraiths of Abaddon Byzantine Empire 82	Posted - 2012.05.28 21:04:00 - [22] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Yes, the pace of the rebalancing changes does not seem to have been corrected by CCP. Be prepared for a game with many odd imbalances existing for years to come. This is what happens when you have lots of different people "balancing" small sections of the game at different times. You have an inevitable **** storm of shoddy game play for literally forever. Only way we are EVER going to get a well balanced sandbox is if every ship in the game is balanced against eachother at the same god damn time. This is not rocket science (i'm sure for some of the ccp staff it may seem to be), it's common sense...
Liam Mirren 521	Posted - 2012.05.28 22:44:00 - [23] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Yes, the pace of the rebalancing changes does not seem to have been corrected by CCP. Be prepared for a game with many odd imbalances existing for years to come. This is what happens when you have lots of different people "balancing" small sections of the game at different times. You have an inevitable **** storm of shoddy game play for literally forever. Only way we are EVER going to get a well balanced sandbox is if every ship in the game is balanced against eachother at the same god damn time. This is not rocket science (i'm sure for some of the ccp staff it may seem to be), it's common sense... While I fully agree there's more to it than that, because any DEV who thinks that the current Merlin Iteration makes sense doesn't understand what he's doing. And that really is the underlying problem, DEVs who simply lack the knowledge on the subjects they''re working on. Recent example are the wardec and aggression changes which were done by folks who obviously lacked proper knowledge on the subject. The same thing happened a few years ago with projectiles, it got AND more falloff due to TC/TE affecting falloff AND they made the ammo changes, at the exact same time. Each change on their own was already good but two of them together made it silly. It's the same thing here, you give the merlin AND a third turret slot AND a damage bonus. GUESS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN! The game is being made by clueless people who simply lack the insight to predict results of the stuff they do, it's a scary thought. And now they're working on some clown thing called the micro jump drive in a "oooh, sounds cool" kind of way, they just don't see it's going to mess things up and they're trying to push it through for reasons that just shouldn't be. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Archimedes Eratosthenes Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2012.05.29 00:56:00 - [24] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Yes, the pace of the rebalancing changes does not seem to have been corrected by CCP. Be prepared for a game with many odd imbalances existing for years to come. This is what happens when you have lots of different people "balancing" small sections of the game at different times. You have an inevitable **** storm of shoddy game play for literally forever. Only way we are EVER going to get a well balanced sandbox is if every ship in the game is balanced against eachother at the same god damn time. This is not rocket science (i'm sure for some of the ccp staff it may seem to be), it's common sense... You must support this thread then. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107690
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance 345	Posted - 2012.05.29 03:27:00 - [25] - Quote Well, my opinion is that the new Merlin looks OP compared to the Bantam because we haven't seen what they are intending for the Bantam yet. Take the Tormentor. Previously it was so atrociously useless it would never get used even if you got one in the training missions. It got a buff, it is now a Death Prawn. Another opinion of mine is that if this is the way things are going, every rebalanced ship getting more power and DPS, then CCP better hurry up and buff the low-tier cruisers ASAP. You'd be mad to roll around in a Ruppy with Merlins like that shunting about the place - you will get pwned time and time again. It seems that CCP's idea of balance is just add DPS to everything and increase the power creep of the game much faster. This may be a way of drawing ISK out of the game in some fashion via ship insurance, as in a few years you'll need to insure your ship in case you want to undock in highsec - you will last about ten seconds before a noobship alphas your vindicator. Well, maybe not that bad, but you get the idea. It seems frigates are heading for near 200DPS / 8K tank envelope, cruisers must be heading for an average 400DPS / 30K tank envelope, leaving BC's in the 600 / 60K range and BS's in the 800 / 90K. I actually like some of these changes, assuming that the CCP balance cycle stays fast , and they don't focus on unbalancing the T1 frigs and leave the cruisers untouched for too long. With the rest of the low-tier T1 frigs to come, I'd hope that the low-tier Cruisers get a look at fairly quickly because the cycle has to be iterative - and in my opinion CCP's devs need to take their egoes out of it and be prepared to take a step back with things if they go to far in the next iteration. I am keen to see the Navitas, Burst and Bantam buffed, and the Scythe, Bellicose, Augoror and Moa given some TLC, and quick. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 52	Posted - 2012.05.29 03:37:00 - [26] - Quote ^ Nice points but I believe they'll divide cruisers into gank and tank categories where only tank can reach 35-40k ehp and gank >400dps. As for Tormentor I still don't get what they did. How should it fight with only 2 turrets and tank lesser than a Punisher? What is the niche of that ship?
Liam Mirren 521	Posted - 2012.05.29 06:46:00 - [27] - Quote Kaikka Carel wrote: ^ Nice points but I believe they'll divide cruisers into gank and tank categories where only tank can reach 35-40k ehp and gank >400dps. As for Tormentor I still don't get what they did. How should it fight with only 2 turrets and tank lesser than a Punisher? What is the niche of that ship? Stop asking valid and logical questions. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Kaikka Carel White syndicate Wormholes Holders 53	Posted - 2012.05.29 06:50:00 - [28] - Quote By the Federate Constitution it is my right, poor Caldari!
Liam Mirren 521	Posted - 2012.05.29 08:05:00 - [29] - Quote it confuses the DEVS. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team 134	Posted - 2012.05.29 08:26:00 - [30] - Quote Come on and relax - first of all the Merlin has always been intended primarily as a hybrid ship and with the missile kestrel coming up for review soon and likely the condor getting missiles too the missile loving ignorants will get something to play with too... In regards to balance it's clear CCP have chosen the current top frigate for each race, balanced them against eachother within a specific role and is now available to use them as a measure for rebalancing every other frigate... When doing balancing it's very important to set a standard to avoid stuff like power creeps and upcoming ships becoming off balance. Expect the next frigates to fill the bombardment role (long range and dps): Kestrel, Tristan, Breacher and Inquisitor (just guessing btw). What I will be specifically interested in is wether CCP will have the ideas to make all the frigates INTERESTING while keeping them all viable for combat. This will be a good indicator of how cruisers and battlecruisers will be handled with all the various roles like RR, Ewar, Links, Mining etc etc (However I guess using role bonus will play a major part of balancing these and still make them viable in combat)

Lunkwill Khashour Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 92	Posted - 2012.05.29 10:31:00 - [31] - Quote Kaikka Carel wrote: ^ Nice points but I believe they'll divide cruisers into gank and tank categories where only tank can reach 35-40k ehp and gank >400dps. As for Tormentor I still don't get what they did. How should it fight with only 2 turrets and tank lesser than a Punisher? What is the niche of that ship? Fly it like a slicer or kite at edge of web range.
Bent Barrel 52	Posted - 2012.05.29 10:51:00 - [32] - Quote all I want now is a gallente t1 drone frigate ... all the other t1 frig variants are great after these changes (sure there are imbalances and differences, but that adds to the game for me).
Cardano Firesnake ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 29	Posted - 2012.05.29 11:53:00 - [33] - Quote I Agree with the fact T2 Fregates should have a better agility and a better speed than T1. a 10% should be enough. No more. These T2 fregs are awesome.
Hail Goddess Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2012.05.29 14:38:00 - [34] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Well, my opinion is that the new Merlin looks OP compared to the Bantam because we haven't seen what they are intending for the Bantam yet. Take the Tormentor. Previously it was so atrociously useless it would never get used even if you got one in the training missions. It got a buff, it is now a Death Prawn. Another opinion of mine is that if this is the way things are going, every rebalanced ship getting more power and DPS, then CCP better hurry up and buff the low-tier cruisers ASAP. You'd be mad to roll around in a Ruppy with Merlins like that shunting about the place - you will get pwned time and time again. It seems that CCP's idea of balance is just add DPS to everything and increase the power creep of the game much faster. This may be a way of drawing ISK out of the game in some fashion via ship insurance, as in a few years you'll need to insure your ship in case you want to undock in highsec - you will last about ten seconds before a noobship alphas your vindicator. Well, maybe not that bad, but you get the idea. It seems frigates are heading for near 200DPS / 8K tank envelope, cruisers must be heading for an average 400DPS / 30K tank envelope, leaving BC's in the 600 / 60K range and BS's in the 800 / 90K. I actually like some of these changes, assuming that the CCP balance cycle stays fast , and they don't focus on unbalancing the T1 frigs and leave the cruisers untouched for too long. With the rest of the low-tier T1 frigs to come, I'd hope that the low-tier Cruisers get a look at fairly quickly because the cycle has to be iterative - and in my opinion CCP's devs need to take their egoes out of it and be prepared to take a step back with things if they go to far in the next iteration. I am keen to see the Navitas, Burst and Bantam buffed, and the Scythe, Bellicose, Augoror and Moa given some TLC, and quick. I like this. @tleast the increase in damage part. Increasing damage helps smaller scale pvp and larger scale. However, increasing ehp kinda makes the changes mute. @tleast relative to the way they were. Also, T1 cruisers are already @ the 400dps mark. You must mean 500dps, which is closer the damage teir 1 bc's put out. Like I've said with the changes to assault frigates. Increase damage, but not tank. Allow t1 cruisers to do near bc damage but with 1 third the ehp. Increase hacs damage to that of tier 2 battlecruisers. Keep ehp @ half that of teir 2 bc's. See. if that was done. The Taranis and Crusader would still b inline with assault frigates in a way. Slight increase in damage might be needed. Increasing tank is a nerf to small scale pvp. Increasing damage and reducing is a boost to small scale pvp. Why? Things end alot quicker. Making hit and runs alot more effective and engagements would end before help arrives. In a game were the player base is increasing and suppose to increase. The more players = more pilots, which is a nerf to small scale pvp. More "blobs" basically and less opportunity for hit and run engagements. Tier 3 bc's are the epidemy of that thinking. Lower hit points, but alot of damage. If a tier 2 bc is able to get right on a tier 3. They will toast it. Otherwise @ range = Tier 3 win.
Xuixien Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 96	Posted - 2012.08.08 07:16:00 - [35] - Quote FYI, Insurance is considered an ISK faucet except in the very special (and rare) circumstances that a) it expires or b) some stupid ganker is still insuring his Gankalysts. NINJANECROFTW. Rabble Rabble!!
Caitlyn Tufy Refuge of Hope Lemniskate 33	Posted - 2012.08.08 09:05:00 - [36] - Quote Ansel Mandisant wrote: It seems really odd to me that CCP took the racial weapon for the Caldari away from their primary T1 knockaround frigate. In essence, it seems as though what they have done is given the Caldari what amounts to a blaster pvp platform. If they were going to change the way that the Merlin fights so dramattically, why not do it in a way that didn't remove the racial weapon component from the ship? Technically, the Caldari racial weapon system isn't just the missiles, it's hybrid weapons as well - after all, they have just as many hybrid platforms as they do missile ones, it's just that missiles dominated for a long time. What we are seeing is a major shift of Caldari hybrid focus after Blaster buff and essentially a "rediscovery" of hybrid platforms. Rokh, previously an excellent sniping platform, is increasingly being used as a shield brawler, Ferox shifted from almost completely useless to actually viable and Merlin has recevied damage bonuses as well, turning it into one of the best frigates currently in game. In the forseeable future, CCP will have to take another look at Railguns, lest they fall out of favor completely (well, except for Naga and Rokh, which remain awesome sniping platforms). Quote: Increase hacs damage to that of tier 2 battlecruisers. Keep ehp @ half that of teir 2 bc's. Frankly, I'd prefer if the fully trained HACs performed about as well as T3 cruisers (specifically, the Tengu) do today, i.e. a heavy dps speed/sig tanking platform as alternative to T1 battleships (where battleships remain superior vs. battleships, while HACs would be superior vs. smaller craft). I mean, they take about the same time to train, where the Battleships can be developed further towards T2, while HACs stay at that level.
The VC's Spack Force 5 16	Posted - 2012.08.08 14:29:00 - [37] - Quote Liam Mirren wrote: Kaikka Carel wrote: ^ Nice points but I believe they'll divide cruisers into gank and tank categories where only tank can reach 35-40k ehp and gank >400dps. As for Tormentor I still don't get what they did. How should it fight with only 2 turrets and tank lesser than a Punisher? What is the niche of that ship? Stop asking valid and logical questions. FYI, the Tormentor's got three turrets now. Punisher dps. Couple that with a web in it's third mid and what you have is the perfect Merlin counter. Web 'em, keep them at 8km and Scorch 'em. That's it's niche. It did this perfectly well before with two turrets. It's just took a bit longer.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 462	Posted - 2012.08.08 15:06:00 - [38] - Quote Quote: Technically, the Caldari racial weapon system isn't just the missiles, it's hybrid weapons as well - after all, they have just as many hybrid platforms as they do missile ones, it's just that missiles dominated for a long time. He's referring to the fact that the Merlin is the only hybrid gunship in the entire Caldari lineup that has a damage bonus rather than an optimal bonus (e.g. seems to be built as a blasterboat instead of a railboat). The Rifter would be fine if it maintained its speed advantage over the other frigates. I have no idea why CCP decided that every t1 frigate needs to be exactly as fast as it.
Jerick Ludhowe Toxic Waste Industries 124	Posted - 2012.08.08 15:22:00 - [39] - Quote Kaikka Carel wrote: So these ships were drastically reworked but their T2 variants still have: - Speed and inertia based on the older T1 variants. This results in T1 having better stats. - Both Vengeance and Harpy have damage bonus tied to Assault Ships skill which is not always trained to V. Though it may be compensated by 3 turrets instead of 4 it's still weird. - Capacitors. Merlins capacitor is superior to Harpy's. In case of Punisher it is somewhat balanced out by recharge times. Still it looks like some of the developers downgraded the ships... Should CCP buff respective AFs to the level of those frigates? Sadly this whole t1 buff is going to leave the gap between t1 and t2 disproportionate for years. Just wait till they get to cruisers and bcs... tech 1 hulls will probably end up with more slots and raw hp than their t2 counterparts... It's blatantly obvious that ccp is going about this whole thing the wrong way.
Vixisti The Scope Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.08.08 15:39:00 - [40] - Quote AF's are already semi overpowered and you want more buff lol I agree with an earlier poster in that with all these AF and T1 frigate boosts, Inties got nerfed to high hell and back again as a combat proposition. The only really viable targets for brawler inties are noob ships and other inties.



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