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Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.08.12 04:20:00 - [31] Optimal solution would be that the towers and any modules on them start to drift after a certain period of time left unattended. That way you can scan down more things than sites in wormholes. Did anyone fraps it?
VC General	Posted - 2009.08.12 05:20:00 - [32] I don't see how this is an issue because of the expense of towers. I remember in Ultima Online, houses used to implode if no one interacted with them at least once every couple weeks. Considering how much EVE borrows from that game in terms of game mechanics and style, I think it would be quite appropriate to have a similar method of decay for structures owned by inactive players. I'd like to see the same thing for corporations and player names. If a corp or player is inactive for say 6 months, simply erase their name, and require them to choose a new one if they ever login again.
Spud Mackenzie	Posted - 2009.08.12 12:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Gautan Virdamot towers and any modules on them start to drift I can just imagine that. Either the tower's orbit gets too wide, and it floats off into space and becomes random loot for an Explorer. Or the corp received an evemail saying "We are sorry to inform you your tower fell out of orbit and crashed into the moon it was orbiting." Originally by: Severice any empire or low sec pos that has been offline but anchored for 60 days is in violation of the Empire charter that it required to operate. Concord should remove the tower and deposit it into the corporations HQ with a fee that must be paid to anchor a pos in empire space. Isk sink, + removes towers without killing them. Shezam. How about altering the way Charters work period. Fuels and such has to be stored in the POS, and consumed as it operates. Charters on the other hand, have to be kept on hand in the corp HQ or one of their offices, and are consumed at a constant rate so long as the POS is anchored. Then if a corp goes inactive, they run out of Charters, and the POS is confiscated. It would probably be returned to them as was stated above, or if you want to be malicious about it you could just unanchor it and let someone else deal with it.
Cruel Intent Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.08.12 14:08:00 - [34] Edited by: Cruel Intent on 12/08/2009 14:09:19 Guys, to complicated. The OP said enough and had a good idea. If a tower is unfueled then you should be able to unachor it. I like the idea of using the hacking skill to unanchor an enermy tower. (skills to include, hacking, anchoring and maybe starbase defence managment). Nice idea and I hope that CCP look at at least one of the ideas floating around this forum Support the new system. The new bounty hunter system thread, have your say
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.08.13 11:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Cruel Intent Edited by: Cruel Intent on 12/08/2009 14:09:19 Guys, to complicated. The OP said enough and had a good idea. If a tower is unfueled then you should be able to unachor it. I like the idea of using the hacking skill to unanchor an enermy tower. (skills to include, hacking, anchoring and maybe starbase defence managment). Nice idea and I hope that CCP look at at least one of the ideas floating around this forum What if the tower isn't unfueled but simply offline, as in the tower fuel bays are full and loaded with stront to boot, but the owner decided "I 'll need this someday, but not today, and the best use of my time is to leave everything anchored here and fueled, ready to go when we get back." Would that count as unfueled? If the towers in w-space have mods attatched to them, you can easily kill the tower itself, and then unanchor and take all the mods on it. I do favour some sort of cleaning mechanism for delinquent towers though. For highsec towers, I don't want to increase the cost they pay as they are already limited compared to 0.0. How about this? We take the NPC fuel portion of the stuff a POS needs per hour, cut that by 10% while in empire. Charge the owning corp an amount of ISK equal to that value at NPC base price each month as a bill. First month it isn't paid, tower goes offline and cannot be onlined again till paid. Second month in a row, the tower and everything around and in it gets impounded by CONCORD, and deposited in the nearest station to that moon. In lowsec and 0.0, leave it as it is, as removing derelict towers there is simple enough, and if you get resistance well it wasn't a derelict. Same thing in w-space, as while looting a faction tower would be fun, looting is not the same as clearing derelicts even though they sometimes overlap. Obliterating an abandoned tower in w-space is as easy as it is elsewhere, and easier in that it has its armor to defend it and likely no people. (We can technobabble the direct fuel reduction by saying that empire POSes need a bit less in them due to empire navies or w/e keeping the moons orbits clear and it needing less fuel to avoid debris or something. in lowsec no one cares, and in 0.0 when you have sovereignty that's part of the benefit.) This reduces a bit of the hauling you do to supply empire towers, while not really providing any loss of the ISK sink NPC fuels are anyway. Resellers will get hurt by it somewhat, but it shouldn't make a big difference. It also doesn't make a tower cheaper to run over time. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Sorry, no. You have to go into wormholes and get farmed by the new AI NPCs like everyone else...
Carebear Claire	Posted - 2009.08.13 12:12:00 - [36] Soon?
Kell Braugh Minute to Midnight	Posted - 2009.08.14 08:36:00 - [37] Stop trying to turn someone else's left items into your free stuff... Its not creating lag and there are mechanics in game already (Shooting it/War dec Corp, then shoot it) - In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP.
Lord Eremet	Posted - 2009.08.14 10:25:00 - [38] Sounds like a awesome idea to stop the spam of inactive towers - let people hack them and steal them if fuel runs out and gets inactive. That should make people more careful with their stuff or they rightfully deserve to lose it.
Xindi Kraid Gene Works	Posted - 2009.08.14 11:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler POSes, structures and fuel are an isk sink among other things. As much as I'd love to, I find it far more satisfying when I find towers that are unanchoring and camp it with a cloaked hauler. The point isn't to be a griefing *** and steal from active corps. The point is to get rig of the abandoned POSes littering space since the owner isn't going to unanchor them and has possibly forgotten about/lost them. Anyways. I think that once the fuel runs out and the POS goes offline, it should become unanchorable by anyone with the required skills (the same as it would take to anchor). This would allow people to unanchor abandoned POSes, and those that are abandoned as placeholders. In the event you don't get a POS you activley use fueld before it runs out and it gets jacked then tough ** next time you will remember to keep enough fuel on hand to run the tower for a couple of weeks, or post guard on the POSes pending refuel. -Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye'
TexasWARlord	Posted - 2009.08.14 12:00:00 - [40] I agree. Offlined / Unfueled / Abandoned POS's should have a timer and the corp sent a evemail warning them that they have X days to refuel it, remove it or lose it. (closed corps with assets in space automaticly become salvagable) I agree a special skill or hightened skill should be required to salvage the tower and mods attatched opening yet another profession to work for (salvager elite for example) Sleepers attacking POS's or camping gates at random.. Why not? As I understood the improved AI it was to make PVE more like PVP... If you have a poorly defended or completely naked POS tough luck for you, you should have planned better. A limit maybe to the Sleepers or Rats bringing you into reinforced mode if the Squad attacking was not killed by defenses would insure naked POS's would no longer stay naked and better planning would be a must for POS owners. As a worm space resident I see this as a reasonable challenge to living there, as a former Low Sec and High sec POS owner I also see it as a reasonable risk to owning a POS. And to remain balanced I can also see this as a opportunity for the dark side corps to finish the job the rats started if the corp in question do not bother to repair and upgrade it. High sec wise it still takes 24 Hrs to war dec a corp so that said if a POS was found to be reinforced by a corp and war decked to finish the corp now has the traditional 24HR timer to get into gear and repair the POS and remove it or upgrade it for the impending war or next rat attack. As far as that rediculas comment about getting something for free: Get a grip dude, nothing in EVE is free or without risk when you speak of Null or LOW SEC space. Ops to salvage a tower would still need protection, coordination and a skilled salvager to do the work while the fleet guards and ships the loot off... This is a good idea and needs a serious look at the trash issue as well as another profession or skill enhancement as well as a challenge to game play and living in any space with a POS.
Venus Fay Rising Star Empire R-I-P	Posted - 2009.08.16 14:17:00 - [41] Originally by: Kell Braugh Stop trying to turn someone else's left items into your free stuff... Its not creating lag and there are mechanics in game already (Shooting it/War dec Corp, then shoot it) Why shouldn't you be able to take a tower that's obviously inactive and abandoned? It's an opportunity that should require certain skills; therefore, a reward if found. I've also found that w-space systems with towers have less/infrequent spawns. Removing the tower would probably restore the resources in the system. Sometimes there are constraints to just going in and shooting it down. Besides, why waste a perfectly good tower by destroying it.
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.08.16 15:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Karanth What if the tower isn't unfueled but simply offline, as in the tower fuel bays are full and loaded with stront to boot, but the owner decided "I 'll need this someday, but not today, and the best use of my time is to leave everything anchored here and fueled, ready to go when we get back." Still want an answer to this part here. And anyway, there is nothing else in game that can be unanchored for any reason if there is anything at all within it, and I am doubting that people put an exact hour amount of fuel in every single time they refuel. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Sorry, no. You have to go into wormholes and get farmed by the new AI NPCs like everyone else...
Anton Gustave	Posted - 2009.08.21 18:57:00 - [43] Has there ever been an official CCP answer to this?
Lifelongnoob Caldari Final Conflict UK	Posted - 2009.08.21 19:05:00 - [44] Edited by: Lifelongnoob on 21/08/2009 19:06:36 i tried to propose this idea before My Thread and so did another guy Thorson Wiles His Thread sadly ccp didnt listen
Lucias Trask The White Aces	Posted - 2009.08.21 20:15:00 - [45] I have seen a few abandoned towers in w-space and around k-s[ace. I think you should have two options. When taking another corps tower require Hacking V, Anchoring V and you can unanchor it and take it with you after say an hour. Requiring Hacking V, Anchoring V and Starbase Management IV, you should be able to hack the tower, and keep it where it is for yourself, say it takes 2 hours. You can either do this with the normal hacking mod and have a choice once the tower is hacked, or you can introduce two new mods that look and act just like hacking mods but one is for "Control Tower Removal" another for "Control Tower Takeover" Or even easier just add a script that requires skills to the hacking mod. Either way it would be much better for w-space and k-space residents. Think about 0.0, you drive someone out (Or in TCF's case they left the area and a substantial amount of POSs in unimportant areas stayed) you could go in, take the region, and instead of spending your own cash you can use what they left behind that they werent able to ninja out. [PANIC]
TexasWARlord North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2009.09.06 11:24:00 - [46] I for one hope that keeping this topic alive will promote a change. The argument what if I need it someday doesnt hold water... Like GSC's unfueled abandoned Towers are a problem and if the owner is to lazy to fuel it or fire it up from time to time to avoid a HACKED/HOSTILE takeover then tough luck for them. 98% of the corps we have contacted to ask if they got trapped and lost the tower didnt even know some corp mate anchored it, most never even look at assets in space. A few asked for BM's to the location most said it was more trouble than its worth. So again I say CCP HEAR THEY PEOPLE, make it a skill to be trained but by all means please make this a reality... Its a waste of resources and like drops from a Plex its random and should be rewarded, to date we have salvaged 20+ ships abandoned in space, why souldnt the same apply to POS's. It should not be easy money, it should take time and some effort but it should be part of the mechanics of the game... We leave a scanning alt in system for the off chance someone gets stuck out of system when using a portable harvesting POS and take extra ordinary measure to be sure we leave no man and no equipment left behind... Being lazy should not be rewarded, it should in fact have a consequence Let the part time care bears cry if they lose it, those of us that are dedicated to exploration, colinization and working the system should have a option available that will take some work but not camping the hole for 1 day 17 hrs to pop a offlined piece of space debris...
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.09.06 15:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Spud Mackenzie 2) I firmly agree that Sleepers should eventually mount an attack on POS, regardless of whether they're abandoned or fully operational. You are attempting to colonize THEIR backyard after all. Sorry to be off topic but... I like it!
Aalu Aullard	Posted - 2009.09.09 19:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Venus Fay Edited by: Venus Fay on 03/08/2009 19:30:24 Our corp lives in w-space and periodically we come across a system with an abandoned tower this is anchored, but that's it. No other structures and no evidence of life even after returning days or weeks later. It would be nice if we could acquire the abandoned tower for our own use. Give us the ability to un-anchor and take it or control it by means of a skill or possibly a device that is required. Yes. I explore the wspace too and way too often i come across with abandoned towers. Usually theres some incapped guns, nothing else. Even offlined towers have WAAAAYY too much hp to make it worth to shoot it. Id like an idea of bringing back online the abandoned, drifting pos. Pos-flipping... 1. The fuel and stront bays would be accessible for anyone if the tower is offline, so first you would have to put in some fuel. 2. Use "the hacking device" first to bring the pos online. (Doing this would take same time as normally anchor a pos) 3. Use "the hacking device" again to access the pos management. (Doing this would take same time as onlining the pos) Then you could either use it as your own or just steal the pos Doing this would take same time as normally bringing pos online. Except you would need to sit next to the pos, uncloacked for "the hacking device" work. Faction towers are around 1bil toys after all.
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.09.10 21:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler As much as I'd love to, I find it far more satisfying when I find towers that are unanchoring and camp it with a cloaked hauler. i love to do this too hehe
TexasWARlord North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:03:00 - [50] I take it the griefers agree too. Salvaging the towers would also give these ummmm pilots a chance to steal.. If we dont have the skill to unanchor abandoned unfueled towers than another (albiet icky) part of the game loses the chance to do their thing. SALVAGING FOR TOWERS FORGOTTEN.. A much needed sanitation skill
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.15 11:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Agreed. Hacking module, Hacking 4 and anchoring 5 skills required to steal an offline tower please. /signed. I've always thought anything player placed that is anchored should be hackable. ANYTHING. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
HeliosGal	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:24:00 - [52] few soltuions ( current outcome) u have to get dreads or a couple of nightmares ( and bhaalgorn in coming patches) or golems to take the larger ones out ( or a dread if u can get in from low sec) But really thats at ime sink ( unless theres mods attached in that case u can scoop them up) the abaddoned towers with no guns mods have either been left or someone has beaten u to it and blown up the good stuff for isk and just left the to hard thing the tower perhaps after 2 months the HP on the tower can drop to 10% ( down to half a mil or so making it war decs in high sec and 00 low sec and wh attacks eaiser) enough time for it to be recovered. But CCP want their silly isk sink as if there arent enough so we get this lazy way of leaving em in place
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.09.15 12:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Venus Fay I've also found that w-space systems with towers have less/infrequent spawns. Removing the tower would probably restore the resources in the system. Sure you have. To everyone else supporting this: stop trying to pretend you want to "clean up space." This is pure greed. You want a free tower, simple as that. The moons have no resources so theres no reason to fight over them. There are plenty of moons for the taking so theres no shortage. This is all about you people wanting a chance at some free isk in the form of at least a 100 million isk asset. I expect CCP will make this possible one day, but you people really need to stop pretending/being delusional. This is pure greed at work, not some righteous "cleaning space initiative" As for the crap about sleepers shooting at POSs....lol. Guarantee half of you will be back here crying if CCP ever even thought about implementing that. W-space is perfect the way it is. You can make plenty of isk without snagging a free tower here and there. Stop crying and go farm some sleepers. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Tau Dades Caldari Even End of the Universe	Posted - 2009.09.15 16:30:00 - [54] Originally by: XXSketchxx This is pure greed. ya, so? this is EVE.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.09.15 16:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Tau Dades Originally by: XXSketchxx This is pure greed. ya, so? this is EVE. read the rest of the post before you respond I have no problem with greed. I have a problem with idiot carebears masking greed with stupid ideas of "cleaning up space" and demanding yet another way to become rich and special _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Zendoren	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:23:00 - [56] I have to say that the total abandonment of POS' as Solv placeholders(Which from the looks of the dev blogs is the case) would cause the ISO market's bottom to fall out and thus causing the rise of Macro-ers to mine ore again and not ice. Unless CCP can come up with a sub-statue mechanism that will use products from the market as a way to "pay" for space, we will start getting numerous complaints from carebares on the forums with the title "sparse resources in high-sec" again! In Short, If this is done ICE will be drastically de-valued which IMO does not need to happen! (I'm bias I suppose) -++
Tau Dades Caldari Even End of the Universe	Posted - 2009.09.16 04:03:00 - [57] Originally by: XXSketchxx read the rest of the post before you respond I just took your advice and I remembered why I didn't bother the first time. it has no bearing on how I originally responded.
TexasWARlord North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:28:00 - [58] Quote: To everyone else supporting this: stop trying to pretend you want to "clean up space." This is pure greed. Get a grip man... Thats probably the most ill thought idiotic statement made I have read so far. A: Most WH Dwellers are not care bears, worm space is challenging on every front. PVP, PVE and Logistics... PVP defending you harvesters, PVE harvesting ALL materials (sleepers class 1-6) no matter if you are in your home system or in a neighbor. And logistics (moving your mats out of limited time/mass holes) not to mention for those of us utilizing Harvest POS's to retreive our equipment and fuel, 90% of the time through a alternative hole, beit HS or a LOW Tunnel run. Maybe you should get your facts strait before you shoot you mouth off and expose how ill advised, uneducated you are about worm space. Sure there are a few care bears corps here and there but thats everywhere in eve where a quiet pocket exists. Come visit my hole sometime and we will introduce you to care bear tactics worm style, it is o.o and anything goes. If you exist in worm space for a extended time it because you defend, build and ship your product and work as CCP intended as a team. Now to adress your origional idiotic statement... B: This is not a free handout, even with a (CCP LOVES THIS) long skill train to do it salvaging a POS would HAVE to be a corp (FLEET) effort. As a previous pilot stated there is always a chance a cloaking hauler can sneak up and snatch the tower as its finaly unanchored, a cov op could have you probed with a fleet on standby to enter and ruin your salvage task and get the pos and mods with no skills other than PVP, timing and attack. This isnt a greed its a just reward for the time, logistics and defense involved in removing a POS, Mods and any contents... NO ONE in this topic suggested it be EASY Money, just that it be possible and implemented with balance so that as I outlined above it would not only be a risky venture but would take a specialized team (Fleet) to get it done safely and retrieve all of the parts and materials. And in summation. C: POS's left abandoned regardless of WS or HS are lazy CEO's, pilots acting without the corps knowlege or just place holders. ALL of these things should have a direct and effective consequence. WS and HS both need to be cleaned up of these assets taking up space no matter if its for a moon in a decent system where people live, weather its related to spawn rates or a low sec POS parked on a moon to save for moon materials. I ran a low sec system for a longtime and although we did not endorse it the Alliance renting the moons used smalls to hold the moon to until someone rented it. Its a issue that makes problems everywhere much as GSC's did and that issue was resolved.. Unlike GSC's these are LARGE pieces of valuable equipment and a new profession might emerge if this type of skill was implemented, it would be hard to pull off by every aspect (defense, logistics and timing) And next time your in a WS, why dont you try to kill a POS with a BC or TIII fleet? You will find its very difficult (Not impossible) and unless your motive is political there is very little to be gained and much to be lost (Time, ammo and man hours) to accomplish this. So get a new topic to pollute this is a issue that needs addressing
Raa Chura Northstar Syndicate Northstar Coalition	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:36:00 - [59] Originally by: TexasWARlord And next time your in a WS, why dont you try to kill a POS with a BC or TIII fleet? You will find its very difficult (Not impossible) and unless your motive is political there is very little to be gained and much to be lost (Time, ammo and man hours) to accomplish this. So get a new topic to pollute this is a issue that needs addressing This is the only reason we haven't popped a WH POS yet. God forbid it be in a pulsar. Raa Chura "You can't read loss, you can only feel it.."
TexasWARlord North Domain Defense Forces	Posted - 2009.09.24 10:52:00 - [60] Good Topics Need a BUMP

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