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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: RavenPaine on 04/08/2009 17:16:23 In real life , if someone kills me (or even tries) they don't get off my bucket list in 30 days .Kill rights should be a lifetime standard unless the owner chooses to delete them .
Same with theft .15 minutes count down ? pfft . It lets them off way too easy . Theft should be 24 hours and up to 7 days . "Ninja salvaging" should be considered theft also .
EDIT: A cool mechanic would be to make those rights transferable . It would promote true mercinaries
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Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:28:00 -
[2]
good thing eve isnt like real life then because i want to know where my billions of credits are. Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Grumples McGee
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:09:22 If anything, I would reduce kill list flagging down to something like 4 hours.
I think what you want to avoid is a "mystery death" situation, where someone blows you up out of the blue and you have no idea why they were allowed to do that. I bet this leads to a lot of confused petitions, because they didn't realize the killer had kill rights on them from something they did 28 days ago. Lifetime kill rights would just make it that much worse.
Although I wouldn't mind if can flipping / personal flags got extended to 4 hours as well. The time should be long enough to exact revenge but not so long that you find yourself getting jumped out of the blue over something that happened ages ago.
Why ninja salvaging isn't considered theft, I have no idea. Salvaging wrecks without getting flagged simply makes no sense and I challenge CCP to justify it. It's obviously a bug/oversight.
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ArcticPrism
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: ArcticPrism on 04/08/2009 18:18:20
Originally by: Grumples McGee Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:09:22 If anything, I would reduce kill list flagging down to something like 4 hours.
I think what you want to avoid is a "mystery death" situation, where someone blows you up out of the blue and you have no idea why they were allowed to do that. I bet this leads to a lot of confused petitions, because they didn't realize the killer had kill rights on them from something they did 28 days ago. Lifetime kill rights would just make it that much worse.
Although I wouldn't mind if can flipping / personal flags got extended to 4 hours as well. The time should be long enough to exact revenge but not so long that you find yourself getting jumped out of the blue over something that happened ages ago.
Why ninja salvaging isn't considered theft, I have no idea. Salvaging wrecks without getting flagged simply makes no sense and I challenge CCP to justify it. It's obviously a bug/oversight.
Lifetime is much too long for the reasons you stated. That, and if the poster can't kill someone in 30 days, they probably won't ever.
It's actually been quoted quite often by CCP that ninja salvaging wrecks is normal and that wrecks do not belong to the player, only the loot inside. I'd find and quote it myself, but I'm too lazy to look through the endless threads about ninja salvaging.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:18:00 -
[5]
oh great another salvaging thread?
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Grumples McGee
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:18:44
Originally by: ArcticPrism It's actually been quoted quite often by CCP that ninja salvaging wrecks is normal and that wrecks do not belong to the player, only the loot inside. I'd find and quote it myself, but I'm too lazy to look through the endless threads about ninja salvaging.
I know but that's not a justification, it's just a statement.
In my opinion, the #1 reason wrecks "do not belong to the player" is because it's an oversight and stating that they "do not belong to the player" is easier than going in and fixing it.
Besides, go to someone else's mission, try to tractor beam their wreck and tell me what the message says. Take that, CCP. Pwned by your own dialogue boxes!
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2009.08.04 20:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gin G good thing eve isnt like real life then because i want to know where my billions of credits are.
If you can sell Howitzers or Cruise missiles or Navy Issue Battleships in RL , then you WILL have billions
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Dex Timor
Forza Di Colpo
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Posted - 2009.08.04 23:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grumples McGee Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:18:44
In my opinion, the #1 reason wrecks "do not belong to the player" is because it's an oversight and stating that they "do not belong to the player" is easier than going in and fixing it.
Besides, go to someone else's mission, try to tractor beam their wreck and tell me what the message says. Take that, CCP. Pwned by your own dialogue boxes!
If you destroy a ship you get a claim on the loot inside. Not being able to track a tractor beam on someone else's can/wreck is a pure measure to prevent griefing.
Now salvaging is different, because you have to equip a salvager to be able to salvage. If you don't fit a salvager and someone else salvages the wreck, he didn't steal from you. The guy just beat you to the salvage as much as a miner could in theory mine the asteroids in your mission. Salvaging just happens to be faster and more profitable. It took me some time before I saw it from this perspective, but that is how it works.
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Kempeth
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.05 07:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ArcticPrism That, and if the poster can't kill someone in 30 days, they probably won't ever.
It's actually been quoted quite often by CCP that ninja salvaging wrecks is normal and that wrecks do not belong to the player, only the loot inside. I'd find and quote it myself, but I'm too lazy to look through the endless threads about ninja salvaging.
This is why KillRights should be transferable. As for the mystery death - If you're in the business of killing people you have to expect someone getting back at you.
There are countless threads condemning ninja salvaging every year. I personally have given up hope that it'll ever change. I'd like it but I don't think CCP's ever going to budge on this one... ---------------------------------------------- The glass is neither half full nor half empty. It's just twice as big as it need to be... |
Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.05 08:02:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ydyp Ieva on 05/08/2009 08:03:44 I think CCP is looking into making kill-rights transferable. Not sure if they already came up to a conclusion on it though. It would be a nice addition to the industrials that don't pvp much but get ganked by someone who just thought it would be fun to blow up that mining barge for a laugh (not a real challenge). Transfer the killright to a contracted or a group of contracted mercenaries and repay the fun factor of getting blown up to the guy that killed your barge.
And the reason if your not able to kill him in the 30 days then you never will is moot. It takes at least 3-4 months for a industry heavy character to train up to a combatship that has a chance to blow up a battleship. Or else you got to be lucky that guy you got killrights on is in a shuttle, but that isn't fun either to make them pay for the loss of a barge. In that aspect those 30 days are much to short.
Also let the people with killrights on you flash on your overview, so at least you know that guy can blow you up without concord helping out. Now I just use my personal standing for it, but that means there a few people red to me that shouldn't be anymore as their killrights on me has been expired. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
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Nova Sato
Caldari In Theory.
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Posted - 2009.08.05 08:23:00 -
[11]
Transferable kill rights would make bounty hunting a real possibility and add another potential job for players. It could also be useful if you get ninja looted and you cant be bothered chasing the culprit down to administer some justice. Just hire a bounty hunter or place them on a bounty board and pay someone to them down for you.
Or you could always transfer your kill rights to a larger and much better equipped friend who will be able to take out some revenge on your behalf. (with or without a fee at the total discretion of the players involved)
It could lead to EVE evolving into a richer and more accurate microcosm of society and introduce even more "sandbox" elements to the game. The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible. |
Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.05 08:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nova Sato Transferable kill rights would make bounty hunting a real possibility and add another potential job for players. It could also be useful if you get ninja looted and you cant be bothered chasing the culprit down to administer some justice. Just hire a bounty hunter or place them on a bounty board and pay someone to them down for you.
Or you could always transfer your kill rights to a larger and much better equipped friend who will be able to take out some revenge on your behalf. (with or without a fee at the total discretion of the players involved)
It could lead to EVE evolving into a richer and more accurate microcosm of society and introduce even more "sandbox" elements to the game.
Ninja looting only flags, doesn't hand out kill-rights. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.08.05 09:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Grumples McGee Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:09:22
Why ninja salvaging isn't considered theft, I have no idea. Salvaging wrecks without getting flagged simply makes no sense and I challenge CCP to justify it. It's obviously a bug/oversight.
take a loot at salvage rights
the ship is abandond the crew of the ship have either escaped or are dead so there is no one on the ship to clame it so the first person to come along can clame it if your not fast enough thats tough on you isnt it
as you can see the salvage dosnt DOSNT belong to you so thats why it isnt theaft Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Galvatine
Caldari Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.05 10:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Grumples McGee ..... Why ninja salvaging isn't considered theft, I have no idea. Salvaging wrecks without getting flagged simply makes no sense and I challenge CCP to justify it. It's obviously a bug/oversight.
It isnt considered theft because it is salvaging. This has been discussed SO many times with SO MANY CCP answers that it's no longer funny.
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Galvatine
Caldari Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.05 10:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: RavenPaine Edited by: RavenPaine on 04/08/2009 17:16:23 In real life , if someone kills me (or even tries) they don't get off my bucket list in 30 days .Kill rights should be a lifetime standard unless the owner chooses to delete them .
Same with theft .15 minutes count down ? pfft . It lets them off way too easy . Theft should be 24 hours and up to 7 days . "Ninja salvaging" should be considered theft also .
EDIT: A cool mechanic would be to make those rights transferable . It would promote true mercinaries
I would happily support the lifetime flag so long as a few overview changes were implemented. 1) The actual opening of the killrights tab, after a month of ganking it was taking ages. Lord knows how long it would take with my chars lifetimes worth 2) That the overview displayed people with KR on me with a customisable border flashy, so I could have some idea of what the local threat was (going through your KR list all the time is just a daft idea)
Stealing flags...yeah whatever makes you happy, I would suggest about an hour should be sufficent.
Salvage flags....er no cos it is NOT theft
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