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A few notes about character sales

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Benny Broadband Fulcrum Mercenary Services A5TRO	Posted - 2009.08.10 00:32:00 - [1] I have been watching this forum for along time and never have I seen so many characters for sale and so many players trying to get sellers to accept lowball offers. If you have built a character over a 6 month time span, and spent an average of 350 million ISK per month on Plex cards you have invested 2.1 billion ISK into your toon plus the cost of the skill books. If you have made the right choices, after 2 months you will have completed the first level learnings to 5, and the second level learnings to 4 and also made some headway on your career path, but you have still invested about 700 mil. By the time you are into your toon for 12 months, thats 12 months of focused training, probably 1 race of stuff for pvp or industry stuff for carebears you will have invested over 4.2 billion in eve time and probably a few hundred mil in skill books, so you have every right to ask 5 billion isk for a 10 or 12 mil skill point toon. So when you put your guy up here to be sold, be firm with your price, and don't let these low ball bidders make you feel like your guy is worth 1/4 of what you can sell him for. The current trend seems to be to lowball a toon for the heck of it, don't fall for this, the buyer is simply trying to capitalize on your time and hard work. I know that economic times are hard, but don't be fooled by low offers, stick to your price, maybe haggle a little bit, but don't get rolled over buy these scumbags, they are laughing at you as you spend the 20 dollars to ship them your time and money, bump it boys
iP0D	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:18:00 - [2] Well, not everyone *****s EVE to play with Plexes or GTC's, while seemingly unimportant you have to keep in mind that not everyone is a farmer. Secondly, there are so many characters for sale which in terms of usefullness really suck. Regardless of all the time invested so many lack even decent support skills for their chosen specialisations. It kinda throws the right to ask 5 billion isk for a 10 or 12 mil skill point character (not "toon") out of the window. There is nothing wrong with putting the fingers where it hurts (among others), after all buyers are shelling out ISK for a character so they might have a right to make the effort to get value for their ISK I mean, all those scumbags trying to sell or resell badly trained characters, they're just laughing at you when you cough up the 5B isk for a freighter/orca/hulk/lab character who has no supporting skills for any career path whatsoever and in fact can barely or even not at all operate marginal fittings for any ship. Forget about working pos labs :P Now hump it.
Trevent Railean Gallente Kill All The Others	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:37:00 - [3] Originally by: iP0D Well, not everyone *****s EVE to play with Plexes or GTC's, while seemingly unimportant you have to keep in mind that not everyone is a farmer. Secondly, there are so many characters for sale which in terms of usefullness really suck. Regardless of all the time invested so many lack even decent support skills for their chosen specialisations. It kinda throws the right to ask 5 billion isk for a 10 or 12 mil skill point character (not "toon") out of the window. There is nothing wrong with putting the fingers where it hurts (among others), after all buyers are shelling out ISK for a character so they might have a right to make the effort to get value for their ISK I mean, all those scumbags trying to sell or resell badly trained characters, they're just laughing at you when you cough up the 5B isk for a freighter/orca/hulk/lab character who has no supporting skills for any career path whatsoever and in fact can barely or even not at all operate marginal fittings for any ship. Forget about working pos labs :P Now hump it. I agree with both of you, but in all fairness to Benny, he was talking about "properly trained and focused characters" and not characters with 205 skills and 4 million points. I suppose character sales are based on what the market will bare..
Vrenth Gallente Lightning Industries	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Benny Broadband I have been watching this forum for along time and never have I seen so many characters for sale and so many players trying to get sellers to accept lowball offers. If you have built a character over a 6 month time span, and spent an average of 350 million ISK per month on Plex cards you have invested 2.1 billion ISK into your toon plus the cost of the skill books. If you have made the right choices, after 2 months you will have completed the first level learnings to 5, and the second level learnings to 4 and also made some headway on your career path, but you have still invested about 700 mil. By the time you are into your toon for 12 months, thats 12 months of focused training, probably 1 race of stuff for pvp or industry stuff for carebears you will have invested over 4.2 billion in eve time and probably a few hundred mil in skill books, so you have every right to ask 5 billion isk for a 10 or 12 mil skill point toon. So when you put your guy up here to be sold, be firm with your price, and don't let these low ball bidders make you feel like your guy is worth 1/4 of what you can sell him for. The current trend seems to be to lowball a toon for the heck of it, don't fall for this, the buyer is simply trying to capitalize on your time and hard work. I know that economic times are hard, but don't be fooled by low offers, stick to your price, maybe haggle a little bit, but don't get rolled over buy these scumbags, they are laughing at you as you spend the 20 dollars to ship them your time and money, bump it boys TL;DR This is in the wrong forum, it should be in the general discussion, where all the other mindless rants are. This forum is for character sales only.
Ukucia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.08.10 02:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Benny Broadband stuff that indicates he doesn't understand supply and demand.
AthlonJedi Gallente RazorBlade Smile Inc. G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E	Posted - 2009.08.10 04:30:00 - [6] 205 skills and 4 mil sp? wow I have 180 and a smidge off from 30 mil sp 8.8 of that just in ships alone. and Im still not done training. Yes kinda low for an 06 cahracter but when ya take long breaks these things happen. I can assure you though, no one is touching my toon for less than 30 bil and even that is pushing it. I mean almost all ships BS and below I can fly WELL, Yes this includes a loki and a widow. hmm guess i should cross train my capitals next eay? I fly caldari caps as it is, well if you exclude the rorq and the anshar. 8) point is, sell your toon for what YOU think its worth, not what some noob that wouldnt have a clue what to do with all the new found SP he just gained paying you with BOUGHT isk thinks your toon is worth. I agree with the OP, dont sell your toon short just because someone with no ingame experiance is hounding you. Take pride in your hard work.
Benny Broadband Fulcrum Mercenary Services A5TRO	Posted - 2009.08.10 04:47:00 - [7] Thanks for the support. We seem to see things the same way. New players, probably ex wow players that need to level up, and find out they cant, suddenly, after 5 weeks in the game have 3 or 4 billion isk to spend and they want to demand that they get a 20 or 30 mil skill player for 3 billion isk, and it should have high faction standings and all the rest. I know how much effort it takes to build task specific characters and I know that they sell for a good price, so if you have a good character and you know what it is worth, hold out for that amount of isk, enuf said. BB

CCP Edo	Posted - 2009.08.10 07:36:00 - [8] Edited by: CCP Edo on 10/08/2009 07:41:28 thread moved to Market discussions. Edo

Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.08.10 07:49:00 - [9] "Idiots sell their stuff and even characters at well below manufacturing and even minerals price. They think it's all free". So, what did the OP discover of new? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dzil Caldari Frosted Pancakes	Posted - 2009.08.10 10:33:00 - [10] Since you've been moved to MD (>.<), if those bidders are bidding too low, why aren't you outbidding them and claiming the character yourself, then reselling for the 4-5 bil you know its worth? It would seem you have the opportunity to make 3+ billion isk per sale. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m

Taua Roqa Minmatar junQtion	Posted - 2009.08.10 11:48:00 - [11] i wouldn't expect to get all the isk/time i have invested into taua back as then i would i would be playing for free. Taua is my character, not a minmaxed nubloid, they reflect me (a total mess). [
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.08.10 12:15:00 - [12] Toon sales was something I've toyed around with the idea of getting into for the last 3 or 4 months, especially after having mussed with in game time market play. I obviously don't have a wide berth of knowledge yet but my gut instinct is telling me that the conversion rate of isk=money follows closely hand in hand with the market supply of available toons. As such I think what you are noticing is not necessarily the "I get it for free crowd" but more a glut of toons on the market, and especially toons that are specialty trained. The only ones I still feel are holding their weight price wise, IMHO anyway, are dedicated fully trained research alts, cyno/cap alts (caldari/gal), and high level mission runners.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.08.10 12:17:00 - [13] Welcome to MD. Prepare for the flames.
Rating	Posted - 2009.08.10 16:47:00 - [14] If someone accepts a low buyout for their character, whats keeping you from takeing advantage of it? Like anyone is playing fair in the internetz. If you can screw someone over, while still playing by the rules, do it.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.08.10 18:40:00 - [15] Person 1: Wah, the price sucks Person 2: Wah, paying $20 every trade sucks Person 3: Wah, GTC is overpriced Person 4: Wah, characters for sale sucks Seriously? If you guys don't like any of the above, then go play WOW or something...
Fleshbot	Posted - 2009.08.10 22:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Dzil Since you've been moved to MD (>.<), if those bidders are bidding too low, why aren't you outbidding them and claiming the character yourself, then reselling for the 4-5 bil you know its worth? It would seem you have the opportunity to make 3+ billion isk per sale. This. You have a perfect opportunity to overbid those low bidders and if your REALLY believed what you were saying you would put you money where you month is. Maybe you know something we don't, but trying to force a price fixing consortium on all of new eden probably isn't going to work. ...but in case it does, will everyone agree to sell Typhoons for only >80M ISK, it's really help me out.
Rating	Posted - 2009.08.11 04:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Fleshbot Originally by: Dzil Since you've been moved to MD (>.<), if those bidders are bidding too low, why aren't you outbidding them and claiming the character yourself, then reselling for the 4-5 bil you know its worth? It would seem you have the opportunity to make 3+ billion isk per sale. This. You have a perfect opportunity to overbid those low bidders and if your REALLY believed what you were saying you would put you money where you month is. Maybe you know something we don't, but trying to force a price fixing consortium on all of new eden probably isn't going to work. ...but in case it does, will everyone agree to sell Typhoons for only >80M ISK, it's really help me out. W0rD, mind your own business and you'll live easy.
FievelGoesPostal Gallente The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.08.11 15:42:00 - [18] It probably has something to do with the amount of toons on the market atm. It seems that there are tons of characters for sale, with no one buying. You can go up and down the list and see bidless threads out the wazoo. Just a few months ago, people were buying up 10-20m sp toons for 5-8b like it was going out of style. Not anymore. I've seen well focused 20m+ sp characters sit for weeks with no one willing to pay the 5 or 6 bill asked. Its really odd.
Phantter	Posted - 2009.08.11 16:00:00 - [19] I just bid 15B ish for a 60m character, and won it.
Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.08.11 16:29:00 - [20] There might be more to this than meets the eye. The other day I met someone who works for a call centre here in the Philippines and I was stunned to find out that their current contract was selling and buying ingame currency for MMOs. Of course, I had to as ask if the they dealt in Eve ISK. Not only was the answer yes, but it was the second biggest after WOW gold! Two other interesting points, in the brief conversation I had, were that not only were US residents were the biggest buyers of ISK but, surprisingly, recently US residents have also been the biggest sellers of ISK. Of course, this has nothing to do with character sales but thought I'd throw it in here for interest.....

Jake Bronson Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:10:00 - [21] Sorry for sounding noobish... well, I am new. Only had the game 5 days. What's this talk about "selling characters" for ISK? Are you talking about selling accounts? No, I don't buy game currency or game accounts.... that's the point. I like to play a game for what it is. I'm just curious to what you're referring to. Most game companies, it is illegal to sell your account... - nOOb alert -
Iridescent Moon Caldari Iridescent Dawn	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Jake Bronson What's this talk about "selling characters" for ISK? Are you talking about selling accounts? CCP chose to cut the legs out from under Real Money Trade (RMT) by allowing 2 things you tend to not see in an MMO 1) You can buy a game time code and sell it for in game ISK to another player who then uses the time code to pay for their subscription. This benefits Eve and CCP as a whole. -CCP gets an extra 3 dollars or so per 30 days of game time (win). -The player selling the code gets easy access to ISK (win). -The buyer pays for game time without using RL cash (win, I have not payed for an eve subscription for 2 years. I would not be playing without time code sales.) -Finally you remove a lot of potential RMT buyers from the market, why buy from a RMT dealer illegally and risk getting banned when you can use a legal method to get in game ISK? (win) EVE is very heavy in older players with less time to put into the game to farm ISK. CCP keeps those players by allowing ISK for time code trades. In every way this works for CCP as well as the player base. 2) Selling pilots follows this line as well. You are *not allowed* to sell accounts. You can sell a pilot for in game money. You can not sell a pilot for RL money. Once again everyone wins. -Seller spends 20 bucks to do the pilot transfer and can get multi billion ISK form the trade. -CCP gets 20 bucks for a simple data transaction. B-uyer gets a pilot that have want/need for. Pilot training is fixed in time. There is a maximum amount of skill points you can train every second. This limits the time to develop a pilot. In other MMOs you can spend a weekend power leveling a character but, if you need a years worth of skill training you have to wait a year to train the skills in Eve. Allowing Pilot transfers reduces a lot of potential illegal acout trades and lets players get pilots they want/need and other players get ISK they are looking for. Since Eve is all about PvP, and PvP can be of any type, trading ISK for Pilots/time codes does not confer and direct advantages. ISK will not win a battle for you. You have to know what your doing to be able to win in whatever PvP engagemnt your involved in, weather that be pew pew pew or mining, manufacture or even playing the markets. They are all PvP and the player, not hte ISK is what dictates the winner.
Zamaranth Sesta	Posted - 2009.08.11 19:15:00 - [23] I'm not sure that the OP is getting to his intended audience here but his encouragement to players not to accept the first low ball offer is sort of common sense like saying "shop around" or get 3 quotes from different contractors. I think what he should really be recommending is to make sure they've exposed the character to the market LONG enough to see its value before they sell Where he's off is 1) If a character doesn't sell after exposure to the market for an adequate time the market has spoken that the character is not worth more. 2) Cost of the subscription time to accumulate spell points isn't a good assumption a . buyers are often looking for specific purposes and will pay the least to get those skills or will not bid at all for a character without the skills sought. b. the cost of subscription time to accumulate those spell points creates more of a max price for a charater because enterprising players will increase the supply by making more of them as the profit rises. c. There are other benefits to owning an account beyond potential profit from sale of a given character. A player gets the use of the other two slots paid for or partially paid for, which could be used for other alt functions. d. Similar to c. there is a fun component, which someone else posted. Supply could rationally tend to out strip creation cost as people give up a character when they don't feel they want to play it anymore, or maybe pay for its second account in $ or Isk ... its logical that they'd sell for what they could get, not what it cost. 3) I'm not sure why I bothered posting this.
Crystal Tigress	Posted - 2009.08.12 06:35:00 - [24] Tbh, those selling to low bids are the losers. Sure, there will be insultingly low bids on most auctions. I got a bid of 1 bill on a character I ended up selling for 3.5 bill, fx. My rule of thumb for character sales is Never sell for less than 2 bill as that will be stupid given the 20 euro transfer fee Never cave in to a low bid due to lack of interest Bring only niche characters to the market Make sure the character is well-rounded But as I use ISK to pay for all my accounts (current active count 10 or so) and train characters specifically for resale, I guess I can "afford" to be a bit picky with my buyers. I have refused valid buyers based on gut instinct saying that this particular buyer was not going to be worth my time except as a free bump. That being said, I too have noticed the prices dropping, which has lead me to put some of my accounts on inactive awaiting better times. Simple supply and demand - and I guess I'll just wait for the supply to drop and the demand to go up. *** Currently selling *** Teliana My - logistics pilot with research agents and gas harvesting.
Kinetic Wolf	Posted - 2009.08.12 19:21:00 - [25] you dont play EVE for free, as you sell characters and pay the 20 bucks fee. the lulz!!!!!!!!! CCP is very clever at taking our money.
JaseNZ Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.15 03:06:00 - [26] Been looking at selling some of my specialised characters on the Bazaar. I read on one of the forums recently, although I can't seem to find it in my history now, that a good rule of thumb for selling characters is to ask for X amount of ISK for every Y amount of SP the character for sale has. Anyone know what the values are, that could shed some light on the subject? Thanks.
Crystal Tigress	Posted - 2009.08.15 05:45:00 - [27] Depends on how specialized the character is. I just sold a character with 9.4 mill SP for 4.5 bill, but she also had full access to two sets of R&D agents (Duvolle and Kaalakiota). In my experience, specialized characters can fetch about 1 bill per 3 mill SP, more if they have standings or other special selling points. General characters or characters not fully ready for the role they are intended for, sell for 100 to 200 mill per million SP, sadly. This is because the general characters are the ones people sell out of need or because they are quitting the game, so the competition is high at the moment due to the global financial crisis (high supply) and the demand is not that great. Characters skilled for carrier or dread fetch an ok price still, due to the supply not being quite as high as in level 4 Empire raven missionrunners ** Need 2 game time cards ** Timebazaar link I am willing to pay 580 mill
ingenting 20th Legion Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2009.08.15 10:54:00 - [28] this is like the 3rd or 4th thread this week.... goddaym _________________ Originally by: CCP Pann I think we've explored every option just shy of sending out ninja squads with bazookas. http://20thlegion.net


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