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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Qujulome
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:34:00 -
[31]
Read PLEX as micro-transaction. This is a good thing. |
Sade Onyx
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Posted - 2009.08.12 12:13:00 -
[32]
Why did you put "The late" CCP Oveur then cross it out, did he leave and come back? did he die and come back?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.12 12:16:00 -
[33]
RMT vs PLEX
RMT: You get the ISK immediately and get it later removed again from GMs. PLEX: Someone needs to buy the PLEX from you first before you get ISK but you may keep it.
RMT != PLEX -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.08.12 13:40:00 -
[34]
always liked the way ccp handle plex. are ccp the only people who do this? I know quite a few let you buy items in game directly but wondering if this system is unique? ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Mia Zheng
Caldari The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2009.08.12 13:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Elaron
The 16,000 PLEX that are 'in stock' tells me that CCP has earned over $200,000 more from the player-base than if every current subscriber paid from month-to-month
16,000 PLEX means that 8,000 60 Day GTC's must have been sold for a total of $279,920
16,000 months worth of subscription at a monthly sub price of 14.95 Euro (~ $21) totals to $336,000
16,000 months worth of subscription at a yearly sub price of 131.40 Euro (~ $186) so $15.50 per month will total to $248,000
So CCP are actually making less money then selling game time as a month by month subscription and would only make more profit if all players bought a yearly subscription for Euro players
Now we know that Americans get the game time cheaper so overall it possibly may even out but im not sure how much it costs for them.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.12 14:08:00 -
[36]
UNHOLY RAGE!!!
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.08.12 16:40:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Nyphur on 12/08/2009 16:44:15 I objected to the GTC for isk trade when it came out but I quickly came to like the system. People will buy isk through illegitimate means if they can't get it legitimately, giving an official route like PLEX to facilitate the trade of ISK between players was in hindsight a good move. The only thing missing from this devblog I'd say is info on how much detected RMT incidents have dropped as plex have become more popular (including info from before the GTC trade was permitted up to when PLEX came in and then up to the present day). A graph showing this and one showing the average price of ISK on RMT sites over time would be very revealing of the effectiveness that PLEX have in fighting RMT.
Originally by: Sade Onyx Why did you put "The late" CCP Oveur then cross it out, did he leave and come back? did he die and come back?
Could be because he's sort of fallen off the face of the earth ^^. He used to be very involved with devblogs, forum postings and appearances at events but from what I gather he's been mega busy in recent years.
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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
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Posted - 2009.08.12 17:50:00 -
[38]
I see the PLEX-scammers are out in force in Jita already, but that is one market CCP doesn`t enforce (tho I think it should make it illegal) ---
Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it |
HyperZerg
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Posted - 2009.08.12 19:24:00 -
[39]
Quote: In short, everybody wins. Everybody, except the account hacking, credit card stealing and macroing ISK sellers, that is.
So players that macroing for themselfs win too. Check out the other half of mainly Ravens with -10 Standing to exact one NPC-Fraction, ratting up to 23/7 in a empty empty 0.0 system.
ISK-Sellers have a hard time. Yeah but normal botters just continue farming their billions of ISK all day .....
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Iridescent Moon
Caldari Iridescent Dawn
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Posted - 2009.08.12 21:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mia Zheng
Originally by: Elaron
The 16,000 PLEX that are 'in stock' tells me that CCP has earned over $200,000 more from the player-base than if every current subscriber paid from month-to-month
16,000 PLEX means that 8,000 60 Day GTC's must have been sold for a total of $279,920
16,000 months worth of subscription at a monthly sub price of 14.95 Euro (~ $21) totals to $336,000
16,000 months worth of subscription at a yearly sub price of 131.40 Euro (~ $186) so $15.50 per month will total to $248,000
So CCP are actually making less money then selling game time as a month by month subscription and would only make more profit if all players bought a yearly subscription for Euro players
Now we know that Americans get the game time cheaper so overall it possibly may even out but im not sure how much it costs for them.
Your numbers are wrong.
16,000 PLEX = 8,000 GTC
GTC = 34.95 (PLEX = GTC/2 = 17.47)
8,000 * 34.95 = 279600 (8000 GTC = 16000 months of subs)
16,000 * 14.95 = 239200
(GTC)279600 - (monthly Sub)239200 = 40400
Ah yearly subs
131.40 / 12 = 10.95
16,000 * 10.95 = 175200
(GTC)279600 - (Yearly Sub)175200 = 74400
CCP makes more money off selling time codes then any other way of having a sub.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2009.08.12 22:07:00 -
[41]
The unholy rage, please be bringing it on. \o/
/Ben
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Nova Sato
Caldari In Theory.
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Posted - 2009.08.12 23:03:00 -
[42]
As a new player the possibility that I could sell a PLEX or two is an exciting possibility for myself.
I am on a limited budget so I can not afford too many, but selling one or two will give me the starting capital I need to get a running start at the game.
And it is killing three birds with one stone so to speak, The gold/isk sellers get a kick in the teeth when CCP makes them unable to compete and hopefully this will drive them out of EVE and on to other games where it is easier to make money, and secondarily it will reduce the amount of begging for cash from new players, Because a player with modest means can sell a PLEX or two to an established player in a fair trade and both of them will benefit, the established player will get a valuable commodity in the form of a PLEX that they can keep and sell on or a month of game time that they did not have to spend real cash for, and the new player will get a nice boost of cash that will see them through to difficult early stages of the game and into the mid stages of the game, And finally as a consequence of this they will be far more likely to stay once they become established like this and the game in general will benefit by gaining another long term player. _______________________________________________________________________ The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible. |
Sgt Blade
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.13 01:13:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Iridescent Moon
Your numbers are wrong.
16,000 PLEX = 8,000 GTC
GTC = 34.95 (PLEX = GTC/2 = 17.47)
8,000 * 34.95 = 279600 (8000 GTC = 16000 months of subs)
16,000 * 14.95 = 239200
(GTC)279600 - (monthly Sub)239200 = 40400
Ah yearly subs
131.40 / 12 = 10.95
16,000 * 10.95 = 175200
(GTC)279600 - (Yearly Sub)175200 = 74400
CCP makes more money off selling time codes then any other way of having a sub.
My calcs are correct, I did them for Euro prices and you just did them for US prices
*note I hate how my alt pops up
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.08.13 03:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Max Omega
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Err...you don't buy ISK with PLEX's you buy game time, true you can then sell your game time for isk, but that's just shifting isk from one account to another. For RMT, the money usually flows out of the game, without getting game time in place.
...
ok let me ask you a question
where does the plex come from
do you pull it out of your butt?
is it a module Drop from an NPC?
is it a epic quest reward item?
No it literaly does not exist untill someone pays cash (either via a credit card or whatever) for it!
Bascialy when you pay for a Plex with cash you have given CCP money.
you then log into the game click a few virtual buttons And BAM you have isk in your wallet.
the person who sold you isk got something worth about 14.95 usd
when you go to thoes online ISK sellers you pay money to a broker. you log in and boom you have some cash in your wallet (that is untill CCP figures out that you got money from one of the ISK vendors and then negative balances your account) and boom.
Trying to to somehow magicaly in your mind erase the fact that CCP took your cash from you when you bought the plex in the first place so that CCP could give the person you get isk from more game time is pure Grade A Bull crap. Congradulations you realy seem to enjoy scarfing it down by the honeybucket load.
Any time anyone can spend cash to get ahead of people who dont spend cash its just flat out wrong. the fact that CCP has gone out of there way to profit from it just makes it worse.
CCP to me crossed the line a long time ago from being a legit game developer whos more interested in keeping the game a more or less level playing feild to yet another bunch of people who put making a few more bucks first.
THAT the reality
They are Hipocrits. They stoped being Game developers the second they did that and started being marketers.
and heres the sad part, they suck at it.
third party ISK for Real cash is suposedly against the rules. why? Because the only legit method of paying for is to pay Big daddy CCP for the privelege of getting ISK for cash.
But they dont even realy try to enforce there so called monopoly.
Literaly the only time I have seen Bannhammers hit the various Isk scamming efforts that hit the system all coincided when someone finaly shoved there face into the fire and held it there with proof that they could not just ignore that people were gaming the system to a rediculous degree. unless that happens they dont do ****. (and even when they do something its just a bloody 30 day suspension and poom here they come back with the exact same names on day 31. . . big whoop)
hell look at the bloody forum. its being spammed by a freaking bot thats flooding it with usualy the EXACT SAME BLOODY SUBJECT TITAL. there efforts to fix the bloody thing have all been pathetic.(despite the fact that other game developers have more or less shut down wanabee keylogers by taking some shockingly simple steps like not allowing unpayed accounts posting priveleges) why? Its bloody obvious that they honestly dont care. its not realy hurting their bottom line because there is only so many people who will swap Cash for Plex for isk so who gives a crap.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.08.13 04:06:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 13/08/2009 04:10:50
Originally by: Qujulome Read PLEX as micro-transaction. This is a good thing.
Go take a look at a game called Evony. its one of thoes "its a good thing" micro transaction game.
they expect you to pay 30 USD a week to play because they give out bonuses to people who spend that mutch every week thats worth ~50 USD
they also have a subscription plan based on you paying them 200 USD for a 15 week bonus that gets larger the last few weeks that you can add to the 30 a week. . but then your back to week 1 so you need to have overlaping subscriptions to keep your income from crashing every three months. . .
all to play a game thats bascialy a dumbed down automated spreadsheet version of civilization but with graphics that would have been a joke in Civ 2.
oh or take a look at the SIMs three
you can spend over 300 USD just to get 1 and 1/2 Stuff packs worth of stuff! oh wait, for the same ammount you could have gotten several Dozen expansion packs worth of items in the SIMs 2
and then tell me that Micro-transactios are a good thing!
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.08.13 07:04:00 -
[46]
nice and all but tbh i liked the old selling allot better.
Youy used to have a good name and be trustworthy.. Now every person can sell them without making a name for them selfs.
Im hoping ccp will start selling more products true the plex system. Like selling the items from teh store.
www.garia.net |
Max Omega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 07:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Max Omega
Err...you don't buy ISK with PLEX's you buy game time, true you can then sell your game time for isk, but that's just shifting isk from one account to another. For RMT, the money usually flows out of the game, without getting game time in place.
...
ok let me ask you a question
where does the plex come from
do you pull it out of your butt?
is it a module Drop from an NPC?
is it a epic quest reward item?
No it literaly does not exist untill someone pays cash (either via a credit card or whatever) for it!
...
Your missing the point, yes I understand you can get isk if you sell the PLEX you bought with real money.
But there's a big difference between RMT and the PLEX system. Whether you use subscriptions or PLEX's, you buy game time from CCP, what you choose to do with that game time is then your problem, they just introduced a way to trade the game-time first before using it. When using RMT you get isk, no game time is introduced, CCP does not get any money for game-time, and therefore no money for maintenance of the game.
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2009.08.13 12:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert I also think its kind of unfair for someone to be able to use real money to buy isk and thus out compete with me.
I think it is kind of unfair for someone to spend real life money to buy a game item and then loses it within seconds.
See? That argument goes both ways.
If I would buy 10 bil with GTC I would have to sell 30+ PLEX which would cost way over $400.
So risking $400 for just some internet spaceship which can explode any moment is nothing for the light hearted.
Actually I would prefer to lose 10 bil in game money instead of losing $400. But if someone wants to pay that much and enable other people to play the game cheap or even 'free', then I do not mind.
I think the PLEX trade is one of CCP's most brilliant ideas over the years.
Theres no reason CCP cant accept ISK for time without selling the isk for cash, as long as there are enough paying customers. If they simply enforce their EULA ruthlessly, everyone wins. No isk farmers, no pay to win players, people still can play for free.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.13 12:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 13/08/2009 12:10:55 Your chain breaks here:
Originally by: Steve Thomas
the person who sold you isk got something worth about 14.95 usd
because the person got NOTHING worth about 14.95 usd.
What he got is a month of gameplay time that it is in no way possible to convert into real world cash. True, from the perspective of the PLEX seller it might look like RMT, but it certainly do not look that way in the perspective of the PLEX buyer. Or you please tell me how buying PLEX will help me fund a new car.
As already been pointed out, contrary to RMT the cash ends up at CCP instead of some sweatshop and as such goes back to support those who develop and maintain the game for us to continue playing instead of helping the sweatshop owner to buy himself a new car. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2009.08.13 12:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Nova Sato As a new player the possibility that I could sell a PLEX or two is an exciting possibility for myself.
I am on a limited budget so I can not afford too many, but selling one or two will give me the starting capital I need to get a running start at the game.
And it is killing three birds with one stone so to speak, The gold/isk sellers get a kick in the teeth when CCP makes them unable to compete and hopefully this will drive them out of EVE and on to other games where it is easier to make money, and secondarily it will reduce the amount of begging for cash from new players, Because a player with modest means can sell a PLEX or two to an established player in a fair trade and both of them will benefit, the established player will get a valuable commodity in the form of a PLEX that they can keep and sell on or a month of game time that they did not have to spend real cash for, and the new player will get a nice boost of cash that will see them through to difficult early stages of the game and into the mid stages of the game, And finally as a consequence of this they will be far more likely to stay once they become established like this and the game in general will benefit by gaining another long term player.
See perfect example. The rest of us work for our isk. You want a running start, which means you wont learn those lessons, especially about how hard and harsh eve is. As as you say, that type of player will be more likely to stay.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:25:00 -
[51]
Yay for the super awesome great plex - good times for everyone!!!
whatever
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cergorach
Amarr Black-Sun Pitch Black Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.13 21:08:00 -
[52]
Let's start by saying that it's CCP's game, their servers, and they decide how things are done on their servers. So if they don't want others profiting from their hard work, they have that right, just as you have that right with your IP. So if CCP doesn't allow RMT, the you'll have to accept it or risk losing your isk, your character or even your account(s). What CCP does allow is the buying and selling of PLEXes for isk, you can buy PLEXes from CCP and GTC (which you can transform into PLEXes) authorized sellers. CCP sells gametime, which might be traded for isk (and in some cases for something else, like tickets for fanfest). Sure CCP gets better from it and might be considered by some to be RMT, but it really isn't. CCP has an finite amount of players that have accounts, sure some will want more accounts if they can 'buy' gametime with isk, but there is a limit on how many PLEXes/GTCs/Subscriptions CCP will sell. Moving some of those subscriptions to PLEXes/GTC makes CCP lose the subscription sale and gain the PLEX/GTC sale. Some people are saying that CCP is making way more money with PLEXes then with subscriptions, but the subscription sales receives CCP directly, while most of the PLEX sales CCP receives through an authorized reseller of GTCs, who also needs his/her cut. As we do not know how big that cut is, we don't really know if PLEXes are better or worse for CCP.
Also bad assumptions: - Doing calculations with yearly subscription prices. Sure lots of folks go for the yearly subscription, but many do not because they don't have the entire amount lying around or want to have the flexibility to suspend the subscription when they want. - Doing calculations in one currency. You might have noticed that the $ vs. Ç is good for Europeans, it's bad for the US. But CCP forces you to pay in your local currency, GTC sellers don't. So most Europeans look at sites such as Shattered Crystal to buy their GTC => PLEXes ($35 => Ç26), instead of CCP (Ç35), so CCP loses twice (once to the dollar and once to the reseller cut).
RMT isn't illegal, but it isn't allowed by the EVE EULA, so CCP can hit the ban button when you do RMT. I do find it a bit annoying that CCP keeps trying to connect RMT with illegal activities such as hacking accounts, credit card fraud, etc. There by suggesting that RMT is illegal. I just can't see the majority of the RMT sellers stooping to such illegal activity, it's bad for business! Word would get around fast when a big seller was stealing CC information, totally destroying any further business they would have. The same goes with account hacking, it's to easy to counter and reverse, thus costing your customer isk and loosing that customer for ever. I see the whole illegal mumbo-jumbo as a big PR attempt to paint RMT with a bad name, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, just not as often as CCP suggests...
That of course doesn't mean I condone RMT, I'm totally for the whole PLEX thing!
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Memphis Baas
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Posted - 2009.08.13 23:51:00 -
[53]
Nice 30-minute infomercial!
Although, it's missing the legalese and the side-effects notification.
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.14 09:39:00 -
[54]
Sorry but I think CCP have made a fundamental ****up.
PLEX is a halfway house to buying ISK for real cash, and you're allowing/encouraging those rich in ISK to play for free by exploiting those dumb/rich enough to pay for ISK.
It badly affects the game in many ways that I won't mention with one minor beneficial side effect of allowing a few individuals to play who otherwise couldn't.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.08.14 14:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss It badly affects the game in many ways that I won't mention with one minor beneficial side effect of allowing a few individuals to play who otherwise couldn't.
Name one way that trading my ISK for play time badly affects the game?
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.14 17:36:00 -
[56]
Character SP farmers. Macro/bot accounts. Datacore farmers.
3 things that definately feck up Eve for your average player.
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TheOnlyProphet
Amarr Altus Provisio Violent Society
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Posted - 2009.08.14 21:00:00 -
[57]
I'm sure a lot of you run corporations both RL and in-game.
Corporations are beholden to no one except its owners. In the case of publicly owned corporations the owners are 'shareholders'.
A corporation's priority by law and definition is to profit its owners. For the smart corporations, this profit = growth. Obviously, without growth, the corporation dies.
It might seem as if the customer should be the top priority because a common train of logic is; satisfied customers = more customers = more profit.
Customers are only a priority insofar as they are a resource; a resource with stipulations, and in the game business, that stipulation is entertainment.
From the perspective of a corporation owner both in and out of EVE, I consider it criminal to allow ANYone else to profit from MY business except for me, my partners, and trade partners who trade for mutual benefit.
That being said, me creating a system to reroute exploited money back to me = genius. CCP creating a system to reroute exploited money back to CCP = genius.
Corporate priorities = Shareholders > Growth > Employees > Customers.
Deal with it.
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TheOnlyProphet
Amarr Altus Provisio Violent Society
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Posted - 2009.08.14 21:15:00 -
[58]
Oh, and a game developer doesn't cease to be a game developer unless they stop making money, thereby losing their ability to develop games.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2009.08.14 22:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Gnulpie One question remains though, how do you explain the drastic increase of stocked up PLEX? The amount increased almost by 100% in just 2 months. At the same time, the usage of PLEX to extend accounts even dropped slightly.
Dunno for sure, but the time when the stocked up PLEX starts going up matches pretty well the date when a lot of the farmers suddenly disappeared....
Still no information whether this was because of CCP action, or if the majority of farming was actually done by one company which then decided to move to greener pastures, or went bust...
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BlondieBC
Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Missions
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Posted - 2009.08.14 23:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Gnulpie Good reading!
One question remains though, how do you explain the drastic increase of stocked up PLEX? The amount increased almost by 100% in just 2 months. At the same time, the usage of PLEX to extend accounts even dropped slightly.
At the same time the price of the PLEX drastically dropped by almost 25% - yet still the usage to extend the accounts didn't rise during that time.
Any consistent explanations for that?
Thanks for the blog. There are some really interesting numbers!
IMO, the run up to 400K is mkt manipulation. The run up in inventory is the result.
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