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Rewards for L3 missions ok?

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Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:04:00 - [1] As I said in another thread, I am a beginner, so take this with a grain of salt. When I made the transition from L1 to L2 missions, I noticed a substantial uptick in income. The rewards are quite a bit better, the bounties are a lot more, I seem to get a lot more meta 2 and meta 3 drops, etc. Last night I tried to run some L3 missions with my friends. I was surprised to see that the mission rewards seemed to be in almost the identical range as L2 missions? (75 to 500k including completion bonus). Bounties were definitely better. I read people talking about L4 missions and how you make millions of ISK, etc, and am thinking about my goals over the next month or so. And, maybe it was just my impression based on a bad night, but there seems to be a disconnect from L2 to L3 to L4. So I was wondering what you guys think. Are L3 missions the short end of the stick? No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Saint VII I was surprised to see that the mission rewards seemed to be in almost the identical range as L2 missions? (75 to 500k including completion bonus). If you compare a L2 Q18 agent in a 0.5 system with a L3 Q-18 agent in a 1.0 system (just as an example) you could have this impression (probably the L2 agents is even better in this extreme example). But comparing L2 and L3 agents of the same quality in systems with the same security level then you should notice a significant difference in reward and bonus.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:14:00 - [3] Hmm, I did change systems, but I thought that only agent quality, rather than system security status, impacted reward amounts. Is that incorrect? There was a quality change, but from a -12 L2 to a -19 (I think..) L3 I still expected a jump in rewards, especially since the difficulty of the opponents jumped. I guess I am feeling a sort of gap in my carebear income progression here, and wondering if others felt that way too. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Saint VII Hmm, I did change systems, but I thought that only agent quality, rather than system security status, impacted reward amounts. Is that incorrect? Yes, security status of the system your agent is located in is very important for the reward. Rule of thumb: 0.1 less in security status is like 4 points more in agent quality. (So this might explain your bad experience with the reward.)
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:32:00 - [5] OK, but even so, when I see a thread like this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1111964 It seems like mission rewards don't go up very much from L2 to L3, then go up by a HUGE leap from L3 to L4. It just doens't seem like the L3 missions are making sense from that perspective. But I'll try another system or something and see if that helps. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Jim Nakamura	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:54:00 - [6] The 45m/hour figure is from a near-max skill and very expensively fitted mission ship. What's probably happening is that you've gone from doing L2 missions very fast, to doing L3 missions kind of slowly, so you're not really seeing the increased rewards yet. And don't just look at the base reward/time bonus - higher-level missions usually have bigger rats with bigger bounties, and give you more LP. You do need to be a bit selective about which missions you loot/salvage as there are an awful lot of missions with such crap loot that it's barely worth bothering, and a lot of the time it's more profitable just to blitz a mission, turn it in, and hope for something better. On top of that, regardless of an agent's base quality, they have an "effective quality" based on your standing with that agent (or their corp) - so a low-quality agent with a high standing (from doing loads of missions for them) will still have e better effective quality than a high-quality agent who hates you. There is, of course, a very large random factor in play as well. Sometimes you get a streak of garbage missions, sometimes your guy gives you Guristas Extravaganza twice in a row.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.11 19:11:00 - [7] I remember exactly the opposite actually. When I got to L2s I didn't think the isk jump was very much, but when I got to L3s I was shocked that I could actually bring in more than 1M per mission. Then I got into L4s, where I'm disappointed if there aren't any 1M bounty ships.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.12 04:46:00 - [8] Did some more tonight and rewards and especially LP awarded seem very similar to L2 agents. Starting to wonder if something is wrong with Republic Fleet, b/c my friend recalled getting 4 or 5x as much LP for L3 agents for core complexion. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Delta Bacat	Posted - 2009.08.12 08:21:00 - [9] Perhaps you're doing different kinds of missions now? Courrier missions give a lot less reward than kill missions. Try a mission for an internal security agent and there will be a bit better reward than 500k. Hope it helps.
Zandrox	Posted - 2009.08.12 13:41:00 - [10] I'm running republic fleet also. I went from a L2 low quality agent that routinely sent me into low sec to a L3Q-18 agent that kept me in .05-.06. The rewards that the agent themselves gave were not that much different. In fact I can remember several times when the rewards from the L2 agent were better than the rewards from the L3. The missions are a different story. The level 3 missions are mostly BC, Cruisers and some scattered frigates and destroyers. These have bounties up to I believe 150K or so. In addition there are many more of them. In the L2's the largest I remember were cruisers with a top bounty of under 100K. Also the larger ships and the more ships in the threes created better salvage and more loot. However the best thing to check is your effective standing with both agents. I suspect that you worked with the same L2 agent for a long time. This raised their effective quality by probably at least 10-20 points. This has a significant impact on the rewards that you will receive.

Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.12 17:27:00 - [11] Zandrox it sounds like you are having the same experience I am having, with Republic Fleet. I would have to check other corps to be sure, but from what people describe, it seems like Republic Fleet L3 missions are not OK. They are providing significantly less LP and cash for their rewards than other corps? Yes I agree the ships and bounties therein are another story, but still, there should be relative parity for the rewards themselves. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.12 19:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Saint VII Zandrox it sounds like you are having the same experience I am having, with Republic Fleet. I would have to check other corps to be sure, but from what people describe, it seems like Republic Fleet L3 missions are not OK. They are providing significantly less LP and cash for their rewards than other corps? Yes I agree the ships and bounties therein are another story, but still, there should be relative parity for the rewards themselves. What are the quality and system security for the L2 agent you just left, and the L3 agent you just started?
Babel Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. N0thing To See Here	Posted - 2009.08.13 01:24:00 - [13] Also, reward/bonus/LPs take into consideration yr personal standing from an agent, so whenever you start to work for someone new the return is comparatively low. As your standing with the agent increases [which is does pretty fast], so will your returns. :) . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.13 13:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Babel Also, reward/bonus/LPs take into consideration yr personal standing from an agent, so whenever you start to work for someone new the return is comparatively low. As your standing with the agent increases [which is does pretty fast], so will your returns. :) That might have a lot to do with it, depending on how sensitive the rewards are to your individual standing with the agent. Although, I really don't remember having this feeling when I went from L1 to L2. At that time, I felt like "ok, now I can make some money!", whereas this time, from L2 to L3, I've been feeling like "are these even worth doing?" g0g, I went from the L2 Fleet agent in Lustrevik to the L3 Fleet agent in Isendeldik. This is off the top of my head, but I think the qualities are -12 and -19, respectively. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Alberico DeSandre	Posted - 2009.08.13 14:21:00 - [15] If you're concerned about income you should train salvaging. Early on it makes a big difference in the amount of ISK you pull in for each mission and it's very worthwhile in level3s with a fair amount of cruisers, less so for frigate swarm missions. Even with some quality and system security rating differences a L3 agent should be giving you better LP/isk rewards than a level2. The up front mission rewards never seemed like a big factor to me in the first place though, since they're immediately eclipsed by ship bounties and salvage. Lastly, the standings increases from level3s can be anywhere from 2-5x what you'd get from a level2 mission.
Zandrox	Posted - 2009.08.13 14:54:00 - [16] I don't recall off hand who my L2 agent was. It was one of the ones in the Gulf-Gelf-Teon mission hub. I'm not overly concerned about the mission rewards as I do salvage and loot after I am done and that provides at least, if not more, income than the mission and bounties themselves. From 4-5 L3 missions last night I made from 9-10mil. From the loot and salvage I made about 10-11 mil. This was over the course of about 2-3 hours given the AFK time I had. This puts the missions firmly in the 7mil/hr which is what I had been lead to expect from L3 missions. Can I make more mining in my hulk? Yes. But Missions are at least somewhat more interesting plus I get rep and LP which translates into jump clones, implants and skill books.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.13 16:17:00 - [17] Edited by: Saint VII on 13/08/2009 16:18:00 Originally by: Zandrox I don't recall off hand who my L2 agent was. It was one of the ones in the Gulf-Gelf-Teon mission hub. I'm not overly concerned about the mission rewards as I do salvage and loot after I am done and that provides at least, if not more, income than the mission and bounties themselves. From 4-5 L3 missions last night I made from 9-10mil. From the loot and salvage I made about 10-11 mil. This was over the course of about 2-3 hours given the AFK time I had. This puts the missions firmly in the 7mil/hr which is what I had been lead to expect from L3 missions. Can I make more mining in my hulk? Yes. But Missions are at least somewhat more interesting plus I get rep and LP which translates into jump clones, implants and skill books. Could you clarify - do you mean that you made 9 to 10 million from 4 or 5 mission rewards + priate bounties, and then an additional 10 to 11 million from selling loot and salvage on top of that? That is where I expected L3 missions to fall, and the two agents I've tried working with in Republic Fleet are nowhere near that level. 6 or 7 missions the other night yielded 5 million in loot and salvage, and 4 to 5 million in rewards and bounties. I will start to record in better detail so we can sort any potential issue here (beyond inexplicably horrible luck ofc ;) I also have the issue of loyalty points - the L3's are giving an equal or lower number of loyalty points than the L2's were giving me. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Zandrox	Posted - 2009.08.13 17:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Zandrox on 13/08/2009 17:19:36 Taking a look at things a little more in detail. Here is how I run. I run two agents at once in Gulf. One is a Q10 the other is a Q-18. I have connections 3, social 3 and negotiation 2. I pick up both missions. Run them turn them in. I usually do this twice then salvage. I don't sell loot and salvage until the end of the night. Meta 4 items I keep and usually place on the market at the end of the week. If an item is selling for more than -25% region value I sell it otherwise I refine it. I keep the minerals to make ammo or sell when I need a quick cash boost. And here is what I ran last night. I ran 6 missions. Three from each agent. One of the missions I blitzed because I tagged a trigger by mistake and had a second wave spawn in and I did not feel like dealing with both groups at once. One mission only had 5 rats to kill so there was not a lot of salvage from it. And this is what I got (numbers gotten out of my journal): Mission Reward and Bonus Total: 3,977,650 Bouties Total: 4,460,590.95 Salvage and loot totals: 10,890,564.42 Total of Rewards and Bounties: 8,438,240.95 Total for the night: 19,328,805.37 Averages Reward & Bonus: 662,941.67 Bounties: 743,431.83 Salvage: 1,815,094.07 Total Per Mission: 3,221,467.56 This could have easily gone over 20-21 mil had I fully finished the one and not blitzed it. I also recall getting a meta 4 module that goes for 2-3 mil. A 3.2 mil average per mission isn't bad in my eyes. I never did this kind of analysis for a L2 mission so I really cannot compare the numbers. What kind of numbers or return are you expecting?
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.14 00:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Saint VII g0g, I went from the L2 Fleet agent in Lustrevik to the L3 Fleet agent in Isendeldik. This is off the top of my head, but I think the qualities are -12 and -19, respectively. That is about the worst quality you can get for a level, so no wonder the rewards are comparable to L2s. As you standings increase with the corp, move to a new agent. I think when I finally made the jump to L3s, I already had access to a decent quality agent. And as has been said before, the more you use a particular agent, the better your personal standings with him/her, and hence better rewards.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.14 01:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Zandrox What kind of numbers or return are you expecting? I was expecting numbers like yours - actually I was expecting worse than yours. What I got was a small fraction of what you have reported, tho. I'll keep plugging away and see if I can figure out what my issue is. Really appreciate the detailed post. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.

Celia Therone	Posted - 2009.08.14 01:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Saint VII I was expecting numbers like yours - actually I was expecting worse than yours. What I got was a small fraction of what you have reported, tho. I'll keep plugging away and see if I can figure out what my issue is. Really appreciate the detailed post. Get info on the agents and post their effective quality. A level 2 agent with a high effective quality will give better rewards than a level 3 agent with a low effective quality. But you can increase the quality of the level 3 agent more (or, even better, move to a level 3 agent with better quality.) What are your social skills like? What mission are you running? For example Level 3 Blockade yields (from memory) 4-5 million isk in bounties. Level 3 Recon part 1 is 6-7 million (estimate) if you kill all the ships.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.08.14 02:17:00 - [22] This might not be the problem but i think it might have part to do with it. Most folks that are doing L1-L2 missions are not the most skilled players in either sp or experiance while i would wager a very big chunk of the L3 crowd know what they are doing. Since the reward for a mission gets rebalanced based on the avg mission completion times for the given mission at the given level I would guess that the folks running L2's are taking longer to finish the L2 version of blockade thus driving the mission payout upwards while the folks doing L3 are taking a shorter amount of time thus driving it down. This may or may not be what is causing the problem but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that this is what is happening.
MN Norse	Posted - 2009.08.15 17:56:00 - [23] Just coming off a lvl 2 missions and going to lvl 3 won't be a huge jump at first, as your new agent doesn't really like you. But after you start running more missions the rewards start looking better and better. The payout isn't stellar, but it is a big jump in LP, loot quality, and bounties.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.17 21:43:00 - [24] Originally by: MN Norse Just coming off a lvl 2 missions and going to lvl 3 won't be a huge jump at first, as your new agent doesn't really like you. But after you start running more missions the rewards start looking better and better. The payout isn't stellar, but it is a big jump in LP, loot quality, and bounties. I do notice the big jump in bounties and salvage. Loot quality, its been luck of the draw. Standings increase - about double. But mission payout, either in LP and in ISK.. just not seeing it yet. The ISK I suppose is not as big a concern, given all the other drivers of ISK are way up. But the LP.. hrm. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.18 05:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Saint VII I do notice the big jump in bounties and salvage. Loot quality, its been luck of the draw. Standings increase - about double. But mission payout, either in LP and in ISK.. just not seeing it yet. The ISK I suppose is not as big a concern, given all the other drivers of ISK are way up. But the LP.. hrm. That is the way it is. As you progress from L1s to L4s, the income doesn't adjust proportional. In L1s, salvage and loot can make up a substantial portion of the income, usually doubling what you get from mission reward/bounties. But as you go to higher levels, the income from bounties gets greater and greater in proportion to the mission rewards. For instance, I've had L4 missions that have the same reward as L3s, but because of the bounties I'll still make 10 times the isk of an L3 mission.
minuseb	Posted - 2009.08.18 06:46:00 - [26] Continue to work for Republic Fleet, you will get access to Vir Honn, lvl4 quality 18 in Emolgranlan, security ratting is 0.5. My personal opinion this is the best agent for minmatar. Division is Surveillance so a lot of combat missions, system security is as low as you can get without risking going into lowsec (agent will not send you to lowsec). Will be a little difficult to get standings to work for him as a lot of agents for Rep Fleet are in lowsec, and if you work for those in Gelfiven/Gulfonodi they could send you a lot in lowsec. You could join your friends who already do lvl3/4 missions for this corp and share the standings increase. And look for these agents for solo Lustrevik - Republic Fleet - Gatgisi Kornher - Command - L2 Q-12 Isendeldik - Republic Fleet - Treur Tuin - Command - L3 Q-16 Quality is quite low but this affects only reward/bonus, loot and salvage will not be affected. Also consider that for a new agent you start to work for the rewards and bonus for the first missions will not be so high but as you increase standings to the agent and the corp those will increase a lot. And on good lvl4 missions you will get 20-40 mil from bounty and loot/salvage, so those 2-3 mil from reward/bonus will represent only a small part of your income.
Zandrox	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:54:00 - [27] Originally by: minuseb Will be a little difficult to get standings to work for him as a lot of agents for Rep Fleet are in lowsec, and if you work for those in Gelfiven/Gulfonodi they could send you a lot in lowsec. You could join your friends who already do lvl3/4 missions for this corp and share the standings increase. The agents in Gelfiven will send you to low sec. The agents in Gulfonodi will not. There is a L3Q-10 and a L3Q10 in Gulfonodi.
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:38:00 - [28] Thank you guys. As a tangent, why is it that so many Republic Fleet agents are in low sec? Was my choice to work on Fleet standing first not a smart one, for a new player? No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.


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