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I got chewed up in my rifter!

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Logic Bomb	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:36:00 - [1] I have been researching Rifter setups (both PvE and PvP) and decided on this: High: 3x 125mm 1x Rocket Launcher Med: 10mn Afterburner Webber Low: Cap Relay Micro Aux. Power Core Against NPC Rats I would get in real fast and keep at about 200mm range and chew them up fast with my 125mm's and rocket laucher. Now the problem is I get chewed up faster especially if there are more than 2 rats. Most of these NPC rats are frigs. Am I doing something wrong and how can I improve the situation? Also I'm kinda a newb when it comes to PvP. I heard this setup was ideal for a tackler. My other question is how do you keep from getting chewed up so fast being in a frig. (or inty)? I heard BS's have a really hard time hitting you but is that still true if I get close enough to use the 125mm's and rocket launchers? Thanks
Logic Bomb	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:36:00 - [2] I have been researching Rifter setups (both PvE and PvP) and decided on this: High: 3x 125mm 1x Rocket Launcher Med: 10mn Afterburner Webber Low: Cap Relay Micro Aux. Power Core Against NPC Rats I would get in real fast and keep at about 200mm range and chew them up fast with my 125mm's and rocket laucher. Now the problem is I get chewed up faster especially if there are more than 2 rats. Most of these NPC rats are frigs. Am I doing something wrong and how can I improve the situation? Also I'm kinda a newb when it comes to PvP. I heard this setup was ideal for a tackler. My other question is how do you keep from getting chewed up so fast being in a frig. (or inty)? I heard BS's have a really hard time hitting you but is that still true if I get close enough to use the 125mm's and rocket launchers? Thanks
froster	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:40:00 - [3] well try that for low lvl agents ; hi 3280 1standar laucher med : 1 AB 1mn 1 small shield booster small whatever u need. keep range at 20km about and no mroe problem with low lvl npc mission.
froster	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:40:00 - [4] well try that for low lvl agents ; hi 3280 1standar laucher med : 1 AB 1mn 1 small shield booster small whatever u need. keep range at 20km about and no mroe problem with low lvl npc mission.
Moridan	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:48:00 - [5] I think you're setup is great for pvp, except you might be better off with a warp jammer instead of a webber. Only and inty or Vigil will outrun you for very long, but anything will warp away. For npc the trick is really to keep out of range since you'll usually have multiple targets that are going to hit you anyways, and the 280s are mighty fine for damage from afar. In that case ditch the rockets. I wouldn't be concerned about taking on battleships, as you'd best stay away unless in a fleet and you're sure they don't have a smartbomb. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Moridan	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:48:00 - [6] I think you're setup is great for pvp, except you might be better off with a warp jammer instead of a webber. Only and inty or Vigil will outrun you for very long, but anything will warp away. For npc the trick is really to keep out of range since you'll usually have multiple targets that are going to hit you anyways, and the 280s are mighty fine for damage from afar. In that case ditch the rockets. I wouldn't be concerned about taking on battleships, as you'd best stay away unless in a fleet and you're sure they don't have a smartbomb. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:53:00 - [7] with 3 125mm's I doubt you'll be doing that much 'chewing'. I use 2150 II's on my claw, and the biggest ship I've taken down in PvE was an Arch Angel Commander (500k) (and a rax in pvp), tried a General (750k) but could hardly scrath him before the shield boost repaired what little damage I'd done. Try fitting 2 standard launchers along side 2 turrets, and take the frigates out with the missiles while the turrets concentrate on the cruisers, then once the frigs are dead concentrate all the firepower on one ship at a time. When I was using my Rifter i think my set up was something like: 2250 arty 2Standard launchers --- 11MN MWD 1Webber/Warp scrambler --- 2Cap Relay I > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:53:00 - [8] with 3 125mm's I doubt you'll be doing that much 'chewing'. I use 2150 II's on my claw, and the biggest ship I've taken down in PvE was an Arch Angel Commander (500k) (and a rax in pvp), tried a General (750k) but could hardly scrath him before the shield boost repaired what little damage I'd done. Try fitting 2 standard launchers along side 2 turrets, and take the frigates out with the missiles while the turrets concentrate on the cruisers, then once the frigs are dead concentrate all the firepower on one ship at a time. When I was using my Rifter i think my set up was something like: 2250 arty 2Standard launchers --- 11MN MWD 1Webber/Warp scrambler --- 2Cap Relay I > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
Jamukaze	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:57:00 - [9] my set up is hi 3x 250mm 1x standard launcher med 1x small shield booster 1x 10mn afterburner low cant remember 1 is a dmg mod i orbit/keep at range between 10 and 15km the missiles i fire reach there target quicker that way
Jamukaze	Posted - 2004.10.10 21:57:00 - [10] my set up is hi 3x 250mm 1x standard launcher med 1x small shield booster 1x 10mn afterburner low cant remember 1 is a dmg mod i orbit/keep at range between 10 and 15km the missiles i fire reach there target quicker that way
Logic Bomb	Posted - 2004.10.10 22:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Logic Bomb on 10/10/2004 22:12:45 Thanks for the help... Ok so my above setup sounds like its good for pvp. Now tell me if I have this right taking my above setup. Im in a fleet- providing tackling. I close in with my 10mn AB and orbit (1000m or maybe further?) a BS and scramble it. I let loose my rocket and 200mm (changed it from 125mm) and I shouldn't get hit cause I'm too small for the BS's guns (thats why I sent with a 10mn AB instead of a MWD so my signature doesn't take a hit). I do need to watch out for other frigs or inty's and pray that they BS doesn't have a Smart Bomb. Did I get that about right and how effective is this against a cruiser?
Logic Bomb	Posted - 2004.10.10 22:10:00 - [12] Edited by: Logic Bomb on 10/10/2004 22:12:45 Thanks for the help... Ok so my above setup sounds like its good for pvp. Now tell me if I have this right taking my above setup. Im in a fleet- providing tackling. I close in with my 10mn AB and orbit (1000m or maybe further?) a BS and scramble it. I let loose my rocket and 200mm (changed it from 125mm) and I shouldn't get hit cause I'm too small for the BS's guns (thats why I sent with a 10mn AB instead of a MWD so my signature doesn't take a hit). I do need to watch out for other frigs or inty's and pray that they BS doesn't have a Smart Bomb. Did I get that about right and how effective is this against a cruiser?
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Dexter Rast on 10/10/2004 23:04:07 the difference between the ab and the mwd when tackling a battleship realy doesnt make that much difference, even with a mwd fitted you are still very hard for a bs to hit ---------------------------------------------
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:02:00 - [14] Edited by: Dexter Rast on 10/10/2004 23:04:07 the difference between the ab and the mwd when tackling a battleship realy doesnt make that much difference, even with a mwd fitted you are still very hard for a bs to hit ---------------------------------------------
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Logic Bomb Edited by: Logic Bomb on 10/10/2004 22:12:45 Thanks for the help... Ok so my above setup sounds like its good for pvp. Now tell me if I have this right taking my above setup. Im in a fleet- providing tackling. I close in with my 10mn AB and orbit (1000m or maybe further?) a BS and scramble it. I let loose my rocket and 200mm (changed it from 125mm) and I shouldn't get hit cause I'm too small for the BS's guns (thats why I sent with a 10mn AB instead of a MWD so my signature doesn't take a hit). I do need to watch out for other frigs or inty's and pray that they BS doesn't have a Smart Bomb. Did I get that about right and how effective is this against a cruiser? If you're part of a fleet you don't need to deal the damage as much as if solo, so keep at a distance when you orbit, if you're more than 5km thats out of SB range (i think) setting orbit at 5k you'll prolly end up around 6-7km which is good for the -2 warp inhibitor. the further you orbit the faster you go too, so less chance of being hit, and better for outrunning those missiles :) the main things that you need to watch for is other frigs/intys/AFs coming for you, getting webbed by the BS or S/M Drones... other than that no problem! ^^ > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Logic Bomb Edited by: Logic Bomb on 10/10/2004 22:12:45 Thanks for the help... Ok so my above setup sounds like its good for pvp. Now tell me if I have this right taking my above setup. Im in a fleet- providing tackling. I close in with my 10mn AB and orbit (1000m or maybe further?) a BS and scramble it. I let loose my rocket and 200mm (changed it from 125mm) and I shouldn't get hit cause I'm too small for the BS's guns (thats why I sent with a 10mn AB instead of a MWD so my signature doesn't take a hit). I do need to watch out for other frigs or inty's and pray that they BS doesn't have a Smart Bomb. Did I get that about right and how effective is this against a cruiser? If you're part of a fleet you don't need to deal the damage as much as if solo, so keep at a distance when you orbit, if you're more than 5km thats out of SB range (i think) setting orbit at 5k you'll prolly end up around 6-7km which is good for the -2 warp inhibitor. the further you orbit the faster you go too, so less chance of being hit, and better for outrunning those missiles :) the main things that you need to watch for is other frigs/intys/AFs coming for you, getting webbed by the BS or S/M Drones... other than that no problem! ^^ > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:57:00 - [17] Biggest thing I've taken out with my Rifter was a 110K Blood on a Maller, after wiping out its Blood Enslaver escorts. Unfortunately, the NPCs had their share of revenge when Bounty Hunter Rookies (now using some improved Angel Impaler frigates) and the merc Aori (in some modded Tristan setup) managed to nail it in a tragically ended mission. It's usually the enemy frigs that chew you up. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.10.10 23:57:00 - [18] Biggest thing I've taken out with my Rifter was a 110K Blood on a Maller, after wiping out its Blood Enslaver escorts. Unfortunately, the NPCs had their share of revenge when Bounty Hunter Rookies (now using some improved Angel Impaler frigates) and the merc Aori (in some modded Tristan setup) managed to nail it in a tragically ended mission. It's usually the enemy frigs that chew you up. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Erick Thakrar	Posted - 2004.10.14 19:55:00 - [19] If you fit a 10MN AB you can easily outrun most missiles. I've been doing lower level missions in a Rifter with a 10MN AB and it works although it takes a while with heavily armored opponents. Ya Hya Chouhada!!!
Erick Thakrar	Posted - 2004.10.14 19:55:00 - [20] If you fit a 10MN AB you can easily outrun most missiles. I've been doing lower level missions in a Rifter with a 10MN AB and it works although it takes a while with heavily armored opponents. Ya Hya Chouhada!!!
Sharkey	Posted - 2004.10.14 22:43:00 - [21] The Rifter's a great frig that can handle level 3 missions if you want to. But yeah, it is usually the NPC frigs you have to watch out for (well, only the elite ones really). So long as you stay moving with that 10MN AB burning you'll be ok. Just watch out for the other NPC's moving to their optimals as you're fighting one of them. 100k+ rats are doable, but it's not very efficient to be honest. I normally switch to a cruiser for that as it can take ages to bring down the tougher NPC cruisers in a frig.
Sharkey	Posted - 2004.10.14 22:43:00 - [22] The Rifter's a great frig that can handle level 3 missions if you want to. But yeah, it is usually the NPC frigs you have to watch out for (well, only the elite ones really). So long as you stay moving with that 10MN AB burning you'll be ok. Just watch out for the other NPC's moving to their optimals as you're fighting one of them. 100k+ rats are doable, but it's not very efficient to be honest. I normally switch to a cruiser for that as it can take ages to bring down the tougher NPC cruisers in a frig.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.14 23:52:00 - [23] Edited by: CmdoColin on 15/10/2004 00:00:01 Edited by: CmdoColin on 14/10/2004 23:56:31 I've about 4.5 million skill points - and I PvP in a rifter - and nothing else. (no cruiser skills or indy skills, mining 1... gives you an idea...) This is generic and constantly evolving. High slots: 2 arbalest missile launchers 2 125mm techII autos' Med: 10mn Afterburner Webifier, or warp scrambler Low: aux power overdrive Why? High 125mm fire faster - best tracking and also do the best DoT -damage over time (more chance of wreaking with multiple shots). Good against the 110k lvl 3 rats - reload is still 10 seconds but its 1.0m3 verses 0.4m3 ammo capacity. Still not really happy with these in PvP... Personally don't like the arty - 250's 280's - the low rate of fire reduces the chance of a wrecking hit, and the tracking is so bad at missile dodging speeds (1000m/s+) I personally can't hit a barn door at 2 meters with them... Long range without missiles being fired at you, and you moving slowly, they ain't bad. missile launchers - more DoT than any other weapon at that speed. My skills are Nav 5, rifter 5, and accel control 4 - named 10mn - (are they called lifs?) - gives you an idea what speed I'm doing. Dunno what other peopleÆs skills are about - but I peronally seriously don't get the 3 autos when you could be using a 2/2 set up - with you at speed - you do more damage - well with my skills you do. Decide your range - and practice with a corp mate. Corp frigate fights are the way. Spray at a cruiser and also a battleship (see the difference with PvP and PvE here - rats don't have smarts or drones...). Practice and lots of mistakes is honestly the best advice your'll get. Then use the 3rd party "combat analyser" for logs and find out whatÆs right for your skills and range. The more samples you have the better you are. Either way in group PvP your not about damage - you're the tackler. Rockets do less damage... but mess your opponent up more (can knock a ship out of warp alignment) also there is the fear/intimidation factor of being hit by lots of rockets. Haven't tried with a ballistic control and the new named rocket launchers. Mids Depends on target... verses purely frigates - I'd suggest a shield booster. (especially lvl3 pure friggie agent missions) Set it on manual - you won't want to forget it and find your ab/mwd doesn't work becuase your out of cap... Not that I've ever done that... To web or scramble? What do your PvP mates want? These are predominately PvP tools. No point in my experience webbing a 150m/s bs... web is best against fast frigates (pve/pvp) because your missiles will hit - also reduces targets transversal velocity, improves chance of 125mm hitting. 10mn or 1mwd? Depends on the target - missile only opponents - 1mn mwd every time - especially for some of the caldari bad boys. Everyone forgets/discards the 1mn mwd now - it can still be a better choice in some situations - if someone is filling the skys around you with missiles. Low: Again depends on your skills - high enough - bin that cap relay. An overdrive is a poor generic PvP fix to avoid cruise - those things will catch you with a 10mn ab. aux power - no choice really - unless you're mwd'in. Tacking modules - a good option, increases the chance of a wrecking hit. Also very useful in lvl1 and 2 agent missions with smaller rats. Ballistic control is another option - faster firing missiles - puts the DoT higher. My personal wierd opinion... conclusions I've spent the last few months looking for the perfect all round rifter setup. Either I'm getting lazy... or that don't exist. I now have a small cargo container with various "bits" in to adapt to the situation. I'd recommend that - or if you find that uber setup... evemail me with it Find something your happy with an evolve its yourself, my style isn't right yet, and I'm working on it. Everyone has their own style in combat, and you need to find a fit that is right for you. Audita et altera pars
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.14 23:52:00 - [24] Edited by: CmdoColin on 15/10/2004 00:00:01 Edited by: CmdoColin on 14/10/2004 23:56:31 I've about 4.5 million skill points - and I PvP in a rifter - and nothing else. (no cruiser skills or indy skills, mining 1... gives you an idea...) This is generic and constantly evolving. High slots: 2 arbalest missile launchers 2 125mm techII autos' Med: 10mn Afterburner Webifier, or warp scrambler Low: aux power overdrive Why? High 125mm fire faster - best tracking and also do the best DoT -damage over time (more chance of wreaking with multiple shots). Good against the 110k lvl 3 rats - reload is still 10 seconds but its 1.0m3 verses 0.4m3 ammo capacity. Still not really happy with these in PvP... Personally don't like the arty - 250's 280's - the low rate of fire reduces the chance of a wrecking hit, and the tracking is so bad at missile dodging speeds (1000m/s+) I personally can't hit a barn door at 2 meters with them... Long range without missiles being fired at you, and you moving slowly, they ain't bad. missile launchers - more DoT than any other weapon at that speed. My skills are Nav 5, rifter 5, and accel control 4 - named 10mn - (are they called lifs?) - gives you an idea what speed I'm doing. Dunno what other peopleÆs skills are about - but I peronally seriously don't get the 3 autos when you could be using a 2/2 set up - with you at speed - you do more damage - well with my skills you do. Decide your range - and practice with a corp mate. Corp frigate fights are the way. Spray at a cruiser and also a battleship (see the difference with PvP and PvE here - rats don't have smarts or drones...). Practice and lots of mistakes is honestly the best advice your'll get. Then use the 3rd party "combat analyser" for logs and find out whatÆs right for your skills and range. The more samples you have the better you are. Either way in group PvP your not about damage - you're the tackler. Rockets do less damage... but mess your opponent up more (can knock a ship out of warp alignment) also there is the fear/intimidation factor of being hit by lots of rockets. Haven't tried with a ballistic control and the new named rocket launchers. Mids Depends on target... verses purely frigates - I'd suggest a shield booster. (especially lvl3 pure friggie agent missions) Set it on manual - you won't want to forget it and find your ab/mwd doesn't work becuase your out of cap... Not that I've ever done that... To web or scramble? What do your PvP mates want? These are predominately PvP tools. No point in my experience webbing a 150m/s bs... web is best against fast frigates (pve/pvp) because your missiles will hit - also reduces targets transversal velocity, improves chance of 125mm hitting. 10mn or 1mwd? Depends on the target - missile only opponents - 1mn mwd every time - especially for some of the caldari bad boys. Everyone forgets/discards the 1mn mwd now - it can still be a better choice in some situations - if someone is filling the skys around you with missiles. Low: Again depends on your skills - high enough - bin that cap relay. An overdrive is a poor generic PvP fix to avoid cruise - those things will catch you with a 10mn ab. aux power - no choice really - unless you're mwd'in. Tacking modules - a good option, increases the chance of a wrecking hit. Also very useful in lvl1 and 2 agent missions with smaller rats. Ballistic control is another option - faster firing missiles - puts the DoT higher. My personal wierd opinion... conclusions I've spent the last few months looking for the perfect all round rifter setup. Either I'm getting lazy... or that don't exist. I now have a small cargo container with various "bits" in to adapt to the situation. I'd recommend that - or if you find that uber setup... evemail me with it Find something your happy with an evolve its yourself, my style isn't right yet, and I'm working on it. Everyone has their own style in combat, and you need to find a fit that is right for you. Audita et altera pars
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:11:00 - [25] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 15/10/2004 00:17:11 I havent used a ship that could fire missiles in a long time, can you still fire heavy missiles from frigates? Anyway if you can, use 2 standard launchers (or named if you have them) allong with 2 auto cannons. Use the emp missiles in the launchers and titanium sabot ammo in the auto cannons. Put the petal to the metal and get as close as you can as fast as you can shooting the missiles to eat up their shields and finish them off at a close orbit with the auto cannons. I'm not a big pvper so all i can tell you is that this works with NPC's if you dont want to sit around outside their range with mortars. Be reasonable tho, if your going to hunt pirates where cruisers usually spawn either get in a cruiser of your own or get a friend or two. Something i learned a long time ago, you'll find all sorts of people claiming that certain things work well but whenever you try and do it you usually end up as space debris. The reason is the people that are telling you this have BS's and only use frigates to fight very high level spawns because they have the skills to back it up. Still, the best way to fight npc's is to sit outside their optimal range and pummel them. For example, I just got a thorax and put 4 250mm rail guns on it, you can tear pirates to pieces with that and never have to worry about them ever getting near you. That will never work with a human player however as they can think, if the pirates had a brain they would warp away. If you want to be safe then stick to the artillary cannons and just take your sweet old time.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:11:00 - [26] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 15/10/2004 00:17:11 I havent used a ship that could fire missiles in a long time, can you still fire heavy missiles from frigates? Anyway if you can, use 2 standard launchers (or named if you have them) allong with 2 auto cannons. Use the emp missiles in the launchers and titanium sabot ammo in the auto cannons. Put the petal to the metal and get as close as you can as fast as you can shooting the missiles to eat up their shields and finish them off at a close orbit with the auto cannons. I'm not a big pvper so all i can tell you is that this works with NPC's if you dont want to sit around outside their range with mortars. Be reasonable tho, if your going to hunt pirates where cruisers usually spawn either get in a cruiser of your own or get a friend or two. Something i learned a long time ago, you'll find all sorts of people claiming that certain things work well but whenever you try and do it you usually end up as space debris. The reason is the people that are telling you this have BS's and only use frigates to fight very high level spawns because they have the skills to back it up. Still, the best way to fight npc's is to sit outside their optimal range and pummel them. For example, I just got a thorax and put 4 250mm rail guns on it, you can tear pirates to pieces with that and never have to worry about them ever getting near you. That will never work with a human player however as they can think, if the pirates had a brain they would warp away. If you want to be safe then stick to the artillary cannons and just take your sweet old time.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:23:00 - [27] Nah you can't do heavies any more sadly in frigates. I'll also agree - don't always believe what you've been told. Try it out with a friendly first. I can't comment on cruiser or battleship fighting, but PvE against rats is a winner when you knife fight really close with a frigate. Tracking means they can't touch you. Rats that web - I've rarely had them in missions - it was an escort are the only risk. What you have to work on is the DoT - against rats that tank - your'll really struggle at times to kill them quickly. 110k can take me over 5 minutes to kill if they tank well... Audita et altera pars
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:23:00 - [28] Nah you can't do heavies any more sadly in frigates. I'll also agree - don't always believe what you've been told. Try it out with a friendly first. I can't comment on cruiser or battleship fighting, but PvE against rats is a winner when you knife fight really close with a frigate. Tracking means they can't touch you. Rats that web - I've rarely had them in missions - it was an escort are the only risk. What you have to work on is the DoT - against rats that tank - your'll really struggle at times to kill them quickly. 110k can take me over 5 minutes to kill if they tank well... Audita et altera pars

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