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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
A pilot belonging to a player corporation, should be able to buy a 24-hour jamming license from Concord. During that period, that pilot, and any member of their fleet may use EWar in hi-sec on any targets they choose, in a solar system specified by the license.
Here are the restrictions and consequences in bullet form for easier digestion:- Not available to NPC corp members
- License for one 24-hour period
- Restricted to a single system
- Fee based on system size / population, and security level
- Players that get jammed have aggression rights
- License permits only jamming / disruption / dampening
- Webbing, scrambling, target painting or any kind of actual firing is not permitted
- ECM drones are permitted
- Licensed pilots are listed in a solar system's information
- Licenses held by any given pilot are listed in that pilot's information
- Licenses are non-transferable
Quote:Why? What is this for? Rather than sit like fish in a barrel, a miner can pop out a set of ECM drones and attempt to jam a ganker before getting ganked. Or better, a defending fleet can jam the would-be ganker first, without Concord getting involved. As aggression rights would then be available to the would-be ganker, the ganker gets an actual fight if they're willing to stick around for it.
Quote:OMG! The abuse! The griefing! AAAAHHHH! Like can flipping, jamming licenses would not be sold in newbie systems (1.0). Yes, this could potentially be can-flipping on steroids... only, you don't lose the contents of the container, you just lose a lock (or miss the shot).
In the case of third party interference with ongoing hostilities, the aggression rights cover that. Fight back. |

mxzf
Shovel Bros
1710
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
So I can fly up to a belt, scare a miner into jamming me, keep them bumped so they can't warp out, and just wait for the drones to miss a cycle so I can kill the miner without losing my ship (since it gave me aggression against the miner)? Don't you think that's a bit exploitable?
tl;dr: no, it's a bad idea. This doesn't help anything at all. |

Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
mxzf wrote:So I can fly up to a belt, scare a miner into jamming me, keep them bumped so they can't warp out, and just wait for the drones to miss a cycle so I can kill the miner without losing my ship (since it gave me aggression against the miner)? ... Yes. You can do that... but it'd be better if that miner had a pack of buddies in dessies getting in your way. You wouldn't get aggro on the miner, in that case.
Mining solo is dangerous. |

Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Doesn't add anything of any value to the game. But it does add more stuff for people to moan about, ie exploits etc.
So no. |

Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doesn't add anything of any value to the game. But it does add more stuff for people to moan about, ie exploits etc.
So no. I disagree (naturally). It adds a mechanic for an initial punch in hisec without Concord interference.
Let's talk about the exploits, though. How bad would they be? |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
639
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 18:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 18:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
641
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 18:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.
Why should I repeat what already has been said?
Go read what has been said.
That alone is enough for me. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote: Why should I repeat what already has been said?
Go read what has been said.
That alone is enough for me.
Then don't repeat. The only thing that has already been said is "it doesn't add anything to the game" which I refuted. Feel free to argue against my refutation. That would not be repetition unless you just literally repeat the claim without giving evidence or a line of reasoning to back up the stance.
As for "exploitation" I gave an argument for why I thought that kind of "exploitation" would be an acceptable addition to the game. It wouldn't be an exploit, it would simply be one more thing leading to a fight. I thought the thesis of Eve was that fighting is good.
Also feel free to bump the thread again.  |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
641
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: Why should I repeat what already has been said?
Go read what has been said.
That alone is enough for me.
Then don't repeat. The only thing that has already been said is "it doesn't add anything to the game" which I refuted. Feel free to argue against my refutation. That would not be repetition unless you just literally repeat the claim without giving evidence or a line of reasoning to back up the stance. As for "exploitation" I gave an argument for why I thought that kind of "exploitation" would be an acceptable addition to the game. It wouldn't be an exploit, it would simply be one more thing leading to a fight. I thought the thesis of Eve was that fighting is good. Also feel free to bump the thread again. 
Your arguments only tell me one thing.
This is a joke.
I try not to waste time on jokes. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: Why should I repeat what already has been said?
Go read what has been said.
That alone is enough for me.
Then don't repeat. The only thing that has already been said is "it doesn't add anything to the game" which I refuted. Feel free to argue against my refutation. That would not be repetition unless you just literally repeat the claim without giving evidence or a line of reasoning to back up the stance. As for "exploitation" I gave an argument for why I thought that kind of "exploitation" would be an acceptable addition to the game. It wouldn't be an exploit, it would simply be one more thing leading to a fight. I thought the thesis of Eve was that fighting is good. Also feel free to bump the thread again.  Your arguments only tell me one thing. This is a joke. I try not to waste time on jokes.
 The proposal was not a joke. Your "no, shut up" is kind of silly, though. |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
661
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stupid idea is stupid. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
641
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Stupid idea is stupid.
See?
I don't really need to say much.
Speaks our overall opinion clearly here. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Stupid idea is stupid. See? I don't really need to say much. Speaks our overall opinion clearly here. Yes, but there's no reason at all. Just "That's dumb." Why? What are the flaws? Can they be fixed? What would would a good solution for the problem be?
Convince me I'm wrong and I'll drop the thread. Tell me your unsupported opinion should trump mine without giving a line of reasoning and I can't take it seriously. |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
662
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Stupid idea is stupid. See? I don't really need to say much. Speaks our overall opinion clearly here. Yes, but there's no reason at all. Just "That's dumb." Why? What are the flaws? Can they be fixed? What would would a good solution for the problem be? Convince me I'm wrong and I'll drop the thread. Tell me your unsupported opinion should trump mine without giving a line of reasoning and I can't take it seriously. The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.
Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote: The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.
Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit.
Regarding neutral jamming, the act of jamming gives the jammed aggression rights. The moment you or your fleet does it, you're fair game. I addressed that in the initial post. Why would that be insufficient?
And uhhh... you moronic jack*** of a WOWtard, go back to crying over error 37s... is that how that part works? |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote: The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.
Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit.
Regarding neutral jamming, the act of jamming gives the jammed aggression rights. The moment you or your fleet does it, you're fair game. I addressed that in the initial post. Why would that be insufficient? And uhhh... you moronic jack*** of a WOWtard, go back to crying over error 37s... is that how that part works?
You know not what you do.... I would back off while you still have a chance. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
624
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him?  |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him? 
LOL
Best one yet! ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him?  Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe. |
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Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.
LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.
Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him?  Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.
*Facepalm*
That went right over your head didn't it? ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Koreli Stelios wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this. Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.
I would be more than happy to introduce to you why this is bad...except youd post a wall of text crying over why I stole your salvage....blew up your multi-billion ISK mission ship...and left laughing with your stuff.
So no..not going there.
Go mission in any market hubs and be paitent and you'll see why my little nooblet. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote: You know not what you do.... I would back off while you still have a chance.
The insult was deliberately absurd. I know he's certainly not a WoWtard, I simply acted with correspondingly to that part of his message. I'd be happy to discuss whether it's bad or good to create a new mechanic that leads to aggression. I'd love to discuss the problems with a license to jam, such as the issues with the current ECM system. But no one has gone there. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: You know not what you do.... I would back off while you still have a chance.
The insult was deliberately absurd. I know he's certainly not a WoWtard, I simply acted with correspondingly to that part of his message. I'd be happy to discuss whether it's bad or good to create a new mechanic that leads to aggression. I'd love to discuss the problems with a license to jam, such as the issues with the current ECM system. But no one has gone there.
*facepalm* ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Koreli Stelios wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this. Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that. I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Koreli Stelios wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this. Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that. I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use.
I suspect your just bitter over 1 too many encounters with a Falcon.
Classic ECM whine post. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Amber Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 22:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Koreli Stelios wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this. Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that. I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use. I suspect your just bitter over 1 too many encounters with a Falcon. Classic ECM whine post. Not whining about ECM, I'm saying give us a way to do it in Hi-sec without a wardec and without getting Concorded. I guess the real aim is at nerfing Concord, not all the way, just a little bit. |

Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
144
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 22:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Koreli Stelios wrote:Amber Katelo wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas? Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form. LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this. Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that. I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use. I've got to agree with Koreli, here. I think this would be slanted too far in favor of griefers and gankers. You'd have to charge a high fee to make it a worthwhile ISK sink and if it costs more than miner earns in an hour or so then it's too expensive to be worth it for the miner, but still an easy expense for a ganker.
Aegis destroyers on the other hand...: see sig. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
625
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 22:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Amber Katelo wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him?  Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.
How can he warp out if he's tackled by the rats? I can just jam him and go AFK, and he's stuck till downtime. |
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