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Bezerk'ah Vulkan
The Ressabiators
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 18:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
When what we should have was piloted mech warriors, where fittings would be just like in EVE, prop, webs, points, ACs on my shoulders, armor/shield tanks...i was very enthusiastic with DUST project...and i know its still a work in progress...but man...last night i saw the trailer for the upcoming MMO HAWKEN and it just blew my mind, to imagine that as DUST.... |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
461
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/3/3a/CCP_Games_-_EVE_Chronicles_-_Tibus_Heth_Caldari_Pilot_-_FD_02.jpg EvE calls mechs MTACs |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
431
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
And It's already been said (at fanfest ) that MTACs are coming. Just not in the first release.
As for soldiers, well, there's this mass of places where machines don't do so well. Pretty much anywhere that people have built. Smaller targets, too. And people are just more versatile. Mechs have their place. just like Tanks do. It's pretty much not urban though FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
232
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:And It's already been said (at fanfest ) that MTACs are coming. Just not in the first release. As for soldiers, well, there's this mass of places where machines don't do so well. Pretty much anywhere that people have built. Smaller targets, too. And people are just more versatile. Mechs have their place. just like Tanks do. It's pretty much not urban though
Specifically, they're coming 2013. http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3945
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
You'd be amazed on how many tanks 20 isreali soldiers stopped at a choke point in the mountains with a bunch of anti tank rockets.
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
371
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Posted - 2012.05.30 21:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
The foot soldier will always be more versatile than the MTAC due to their small size, speed, adaptability, and the fact that they are much harder to hit with a swarm launcher. MTACs will just get owned by a squad of Swarm launchers.
Oh, and Armored Core is that way. ----------->>>> Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Bezerk'ah Vulkan
The Ressabiators
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:The foot soldier will always be more versatile than the MTAC due to their small size, speed, adaptability, and the fact that they are much harder to hit with a swarm launcher. MTACs will just get owned by a squad of Swarm launchers.
Oh, and Armored Core is that way. ----------->>>>
LOL actually wasnt armored core at all...it was the upcoming MMO called HAWKEN...its ******* amazing...you'll understand why i freaked out when i saw it and imediatly thought DUST and EVE!
http://www.playhawken.com/ |
Bezerk'ah Vulkan
The Ressabiators
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Also i don't see any small group of soldiers dealing that well with one of these beasts hehehe a nano mech, with OD and nanos, ACs on it's shoulders, and dual webs! |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
766
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:Also i don't see any small group of soldiers dealing that well with one of these beasts hehehe a nano mech, with OD and nanos, ACs on it's shoulders, and dual webs!
ground troops can use webs as well. think of them as frigates.
It's like you're asking "why do we have frigates in eve when there are battleships!" Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Bezerk'ah Vulkan
The Ressabiators
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:Also i don't see any small group of soldiers dealing that well with one of these beasts hehehe a nano mech, with OD and nanos, ACs on it's shoulders, and dual webs! ground troops can use webs as well. think of them as frigates. It's like you're asking "why do we have frigates in eve when there are battleships!"
Makes sense...but only because there are TERRIBLE battleships pilots out there...a lot of them! hehehe
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3946
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
also the cost of one mtac is probably alot and I mean alot more than one soldier.
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Mirima Thurander
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
287
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
look at it this way,
Inf = Frigs
and so on. I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh.
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
17
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Posted - 2012.05.31 00:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Pretty much the only reason to have them around is because you think mechs are cool. Which is fine, but then you ought to play a dedicated mech game.
Also, (more importantly) a mech-heavy game implies vehicle sim, which is not really that similar to a twitch shooter and appeals to an entirely different (and much smaller) market. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
461
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Posted - 2012.05.31 02:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Maybe not the 3 story tall MechWarrior behemoths. Yet large powered exo-suits have practicality for support in confined places where perhaps you cant fit a 5-ton wrecker. Moving heavy debris or moving heavy equipment where there are no roads, narrow alleys or thick foliage. Not really for combat, but it would have its uses. Yet whats the fun in that. You want to go stomping down the street unloading chain guns and flipping a LAV in your way. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3947
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Posted - 2012.05.31 02:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Pretty much the only reason to have them around is because you think mechs are cool. Which is fine, but then you ought to play a dedicated mech game.
Also, (more importantly) a mech-heavy game implies vehicle sim, which is not really that similar to a twitch shooter and appeals to an entirely different (and much smaller) market.
MTACs are basically utilitarian mechs able to be able to lift heavier than infantry carryable weapons. Thier main purpose was to provide a much more powerful chassis of human configuration such as heavy loaders, repair rigs, and miners. Most weaponized MTACs described so far have only been anti-infantry roled but its left to belive they can fullfill any role provided the weapons fit.
MTACs in eve would probably not fare well against getting hit by a tank but can probably take a tank out if it shot first either way I expect them to be more of a mobile pill box that isnt going to die as quick as a LAV.
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Jerran Ragnar
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
5
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Posted - 2012.05.31 15:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can certainly see Mechs as the main battle platform for planets like Gas, Lava, Barren, Maybe Ocean and Storm. Think areas where soldiers would not function very well. Also, Mechs may get a higher number of Eve type players to want to do it but, CCP seems to be attempting to gain FPS players who "prefer" soldiers. |
Gally Alita
Thee Almitee Ones The Unforgiven Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.05.31 21:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Though by that time they already figured out how to build gundams |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
473
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Posted - 2012.05.31 23:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gally Alita wrote:Though by that time they already figured out how to build gundams A 60ft tall mech is never in reality going to go super sonic and have the agility of a ninja. Mechwarrior, while still fantasy has a slightly more realistic outlook at a walking battleship using Myomer muscle fibers to move such large limbs, rather than hydraulics and separate actuating motors. Reality is the future of war will be dominated by smaller and smaller drone vehicles dealing in precision damage. Not going Robot Jox and punching buildings. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
436
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Posted - 2012.06.01 03:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Gally Alita wrote:Though by that time they already figured out how to build gundams A 60ft tall mech is never in reality going to go super sonic and have the agility of a ninja. Mechwarrior, while still fantasy has a slightly more realistic outlook at a walking battleship using Myomer muscle fibers to move such large limbs, rather than hydraulics and separate actuating motors. Reality is the future of war will be dominated by smaller and smaller drone vehicles dealing in precision damage. Not going Robot Jox and punching buildings.
It's like they've never heard of the square cube law ;) FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
776
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Posted - 2012.06.01 04:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Pretty much the only reason to have them around is because you think mechs are cool. Which is fine, but then you ought to play a dedicated mech game.
Also, (more importantly) a mech-heavy game implies vehicle sim, which is not really that similar to a twitch shooter and appeals to an entirely different (and much smaller) market.
sorry if you missed it but that is what dust 514 is. Haven't played planet side I bet.
Also I'm pretty sure the mechs in eve lore are more like that thing Riley piloted at the end of alien 2. which we allready know is coming to dust, so that's awesome. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1363
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Posted - 2012.06.01 04:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Pretty much the only reason to have them around is because you think mechs are cool. Which is fine, but then you ought to play a dedicated mech game.
Also, (more importantly) a mech-heavy game implies vehicle sim, which is not really that similar to a twitch shooter and appeals to an entirely different (and much smaller) market. sorry if you missed it but that is what dust 514 is. Haven't played planet side I bet. Also I'm pretty sure the mechs in eve lore are more like that thing Riley piloted at the end of alien 2. which we allready know is coming to dust, so that's awesome.
Ripley*
and it was a power loader |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3970
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Posted - 2012.06.01 16:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Mechs make absolutely no sense from a practical perspective. Pretty much the only reason to have them around is because you think mechs are cool. Which is fine, but then you ought to play a dedicated mech game.
Also, (more importantly) a mech-heavy game implies vehicle sim, which is not really that similar to a twitch shooter and appeals to an entirely different (and much smaller) market. sorry if you missed it but that is what dust 514 is. Haven't played planet side I bet. Also I'm pretty sure the mechs in eve lore are more like that thing Riley piloted at the end of alien 2. which we allready know is coming to dust, so that's awesome. Ripley* and it was a power loader
There been games where they armored up and weaponized powerloaders with micro missile launchers one hit = dead zeno and not so instantly dead human.
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Bhaal Chinnian
Hedion University Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.06.02 02:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
They need to make a reality show called 'Nerds Arguing'.....this I would watch, but for now I will read Eve forums..... 'A Good Plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed next week'-- George Patton |
zer0rez
LazyBoyz Band of Recreational Flyers Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2012.06.04 03:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Obligatory bad movie clip of a decent Heinlein book:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4 |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
205
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Posted - 2012.06.05 21:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Gally Alita wrote:Though by that time they already figured out how to build gundams A 60ft tall mech is never in reality going to go super sonic and have the agility of a ninja. Mechwarrior, while still fantasy has a slightly more realistic outlook at a walking battleship using Myomer muscle fibers to move such large limbs, rather than hydraulics and separate actuating motors. Reality is the future of war will be dominated by smaller and smaller drone vehicles dealing in precision damage. Not going Robot Jox and punching buildings. thing i loved about GUNDAM, they DID say that mechs are worse then a tank on LAND. Mechs were built for space where the maneuverability of a human body would far outperform a clunky box with engines. there was even one gundam series that had a mech shooting at soem tanks in a forest and missing (its so tall it couldnt see them in the trees) and then a single shot knocked it on its ass, at which point it was too heavy to get itself back up.
So mechs DO have a place, in zero-G or areas where the maneuverability of a more "traditional" vehicle can be outperformed by a humanoid design.
so while eys, in MOST fo the GUNDAM serie's the technology was ridiculous, they at elast ahd valid reseanong as to why certain things were chosen. |
Culmen
0utLaw. Northern Coalition.
78
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
So mechs DO have a place, in zero-G or areas where the maneuverability of a more "traditional" vehicle can be outperformed by a humanoid design.
Of course any humanoid shape mecha could probably be outperformed by a non-humanoid shaped space ship and probably at a fraction of the price.
The closets thing I've heard to justification for mecha in space was that the arms and legs allowed for rotation without expending reaction mass.
Thing is, it would be much simpler and much more effective to have some radially symmetric pod with repositionable metal bars on the periphery that have sliding weights on them and maybe maneuvering thruster on the tips.
Hint: when astronauts want to rotate in space, they expend reaction mass, they don't tend to wave their arms and legs around.
As for Bipeds, I think the MTAC is probably the maximum size, thinking of them as a mini-IFV, rather than a walking tank.
Also I think Quadrupedal Mecha for Urban combat would actually be rather effective maybe up to even the light tank scale. Four legs halves the asphalt crushing problems of bipeds. Advantages over threads include: Not having to wait for combat engineers everytime a tank trap, high pile of rubble, or 4 foot concrete embankment blocks your path. The ability to move in all directions immediately, useful in ambush situations. Also a tank with a thread blown off is practically a target dummy out in the line of fire. A Quardped with 3 legs blown off might be able to crawl into a hull-down position a few meters away.
There is a fine line between a post and a signature. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
438
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Posted - 2012.06.06 02:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gyroscopes for attitude control.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_moment_gyroscope
No reaction mass ship required. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
91
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Posted - 2012.06.06 02:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Culmen wrote: The closets thing I've heard to justification for mecha in space was that the arms and legs allowed for rotation without expending reaction mass.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Laws of motion.
Even twisting and moving arms and legs results in a torque force that alters your momentum.
So even this argument is wrong.
Mechs in space is dumb.
40ft mechs are dumb.
What makes sense is a 12-15 foot mech strong enough to hold a tank sized gun in its hands and run around the battlefield sowing carnage.
Thats MTACS.
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Culmen
0utLaw. Northern Coalition.
82
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Posted - 2012.06.06 03:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Culmen wrote: The closets thing I've heard to justification for mecha in space was that the arms and legs allowed for rotation without expending reaction mass.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Laws of motion. Even twisting and moving arms and legs results in a torque force that alters your momentum. So even this argument is wrong. Mechs in space is dumb. 40ft mechs are dumb. What makes sense is a 12-15 foot mech strong enough to hold a tank sized gun in its hands and run around the battlefield sowing carnage. Thats MTACS.
I think you missed my point I think mecha in space is a stupid idea.
However usage of a non-humanoid articulate structure could exploit Conservation of Angular Momentum Shifting of weight withing a rotating system can increase or decrease rotation rate. Newtons 3rd law that allows rotation to begin. You would be pushing off the inertia of the weight.
Then again Powered armor space suit for micrometeorite defense with integrate maneuvering system and tactile sensitive robotic hands... not so dumb. Many modern day astronauts would kill for one of those. There is a fine line between a post and a signature. |
Hega Modo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.06.06 04:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Why not soldiers? |
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