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Vardofire
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:33:00 -
[1]
I am a veteran blaster ship pilot.
I am a veteran frig pilot.
And I find orbiting while attacking totally stupid.
Heres why:
Were like in the year 2hundred gazillion, and technology has made light speed travel and spave traveling possible.
Yay!
You can now equip guns on a ship you buy with the money youve made uber ganking roids, and go kill someone.
Yay!
You see your foe coming towards you, so you decide to charge in, and orbit at 10km. Guns are ready...
YAY!
BUT!
As soon as you start flying in more or less regular circles around your foe, your guns dont seem to be able to aim him anymore!
Why?
Cant your big uber advanced ship AI tell your guns: "Hey dude! Were orbiting in a CIRCULAR motion. So just keep aiming for the center of the circle and youll hit every single time." Really it's like elementary school geometry for such an AI...
My point is, I think the fact that your transversal goes way up when orbiting, makes the orbit option totally useless to combat pilots, especially close range ones. IMO I think that when perfectly orbiting the enemy ship, tracking should go down drastically since basically, if youre good at visualizing stuff, the enemy ships stays at the SAME PLACE according to your ship.
No whine/flame intended here, just wanted to point out something I thought was weird...
Comments?
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"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way."
-General George Patton Jr
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Vardofire
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:33:00 -
[2]
I am a veteran blaster ship pilot.
I am a veteran frig pilot.
And I find orbiting while attacking totally stupid.
Heres why:
Were like in the year 2hundred gazillion, and technology has made light speed travel and spave traveling possible.
Yay!
You can now equip guns on a ship you buy with the money youve made uber ganking roids, and go kill someone.
Yay!
You see your foe coming towards you, so you decide to charge in, and orbit at 10km. Guns are ready...
YAY!
BUT!
As soon as you start flying in more or less regular circles around your foe, your guns dont seem to be able to aim him anymore!
Why?
Cant your big uber advanced ship AI tell your guns: "Hey dude! Were orbiting in a CIRCULAR motion. So just keep aiming for the center of the circle and youll hit every single time." Really it's like elementary school geometry for such an AI...
My point is, I think the fact that your transversal goes way up when orbiting, makes the orbit option totally useless to combat pilots, especially close range ones. IMO I think that when perfectly orbiting the enemy ship, tracking should go down drastically since basically, if youre good at visualizing stuff, the enemy ships stays at the SAME PLACE according to your ship.
No whine/flame intended here, just wanted to point out something I thought was weird...
Comments?
-----------------------------------------------
"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way."
-General George Patton Jr
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:43:00 -
[3]
Hm.
I don't use blasters on my light fighting ships, medium pulse lasers rather; even then, I only notice a mild decrease in firepower output when orbiting, and often it is far preferrable to staying at low speeds.
Maybe there's something wrong with you ;f
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:43:00 -
[4]
Hm.
I don't use blasters on my light fighting ships, medium pulse lasers rather; even then, I only notice a mild decrease in firepower output when orbiting, and often it is far preferrable to staying at low speeds.
Maybe there's something wrong with you ;f
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:51:00 -
[5]
I think his point is...
If you have 2 ships, A and B. A is orbiting B at 3km/s. B is pinned down by a web. If both ships were using medium pulse, they would have an equal chance of hitting each other in EVE.
I think it makes more sense for the person orbitting to hit better. His ship is obitting a single point, the guns only need to point in that direction. The pinned ships guns have to track another ship moving at high velocity.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.10.13 02:51:00 -
[6]
I think his point is...
If you have 2 ships, A and B. A is orbiting B at 3km/s. B is pinned down by a web. If both ships were using medium pulse, they would have an equal chance of hitting each other in EVE.
I think it makes more sense for the person orbitting to hit better. His ship is obitting a single point, the guns only need to point in that direction. The pinned ships guns have to track another ship moving at high velocity.
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Mahkid
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Posted - 2004.10.13 03:26:00 -
[7]
I agree. It's the same concept as mechwarrior where you run in a circle around your opponent, and you keep you keep your torso facing the same place.
But we all know it doesn't work like that in EVE. Sounds like a concept flaw to me.
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Mahkid
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Posted - 2004.10.13 03:26:00 -
[8]
I agree. It's the same concept as mechwarrior where you run in a circle around your opponent, and you keep you keep your torso facing the same place.
But we all know it doesn't work like that in EVE. Sounds like a concept flaw to me.
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Dellant
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Posted - 2004.10.13 03:42:00 -
[9]
i have always wondered the same
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Dellant
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Posted - 2004.10.13 03:42:00 -
[10]
i have always wondered the same
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.10.13 04:55:00 -
[11]
I've noticed this in frigate/frigate combat (against larger ships, I don't see any accuracy problems with orbiting). What it seems like to me, though, is that both frigates usually end up orbiting each other. Even when one ship is webbed and the other is not, they both end up describing a funky spirograph sort of pattern through space, so you don't end up with a stationary point to shoot at.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.10.13 04:55:00 -
[12]
I've noticed this in frigate/frigate combat (against larger ships, I don't see any accuracy problems with orbiting). What it seems like to me, though, is that both frigates usually end up orbiting each other. Even when one ship is webbed and the other is not, they both end up describing a funky spirograph sort of pattern through space, so you don't end up with a stationary point to shoot at.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Muntz
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Posted - 2004.10.13 06:31:00 -
[13]
I think the issue is that the orientation of your ship is not taken into account in Eve where tracking is considered. I mean, large guns track at like hundredths of a radian per second, but your ship can turn completely around while fighting, and it will have absolutely no bearing on tracking. If ship movement were taken into account, it could make for some very interesting encounters, but I think that it might be too much of a shift for everyone in Eve to handle. I'd be down, but I can't speak for everyone.
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Muntz
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Posted - 2004.10.13 06:31:00 -
[14]
I think the issue is that the orientation of your ship is not taken into account in Eve where tracking is considered. I mean, large guns track at like hundredths of a radian per second, but your ship can turn completely around while fighting, and it will have absolutely no bearing on tracking. If ship movement were taken into account, it could make for some very interesting encounters, but I think that it might be too much of a shift for everyone in Eve to handle. I'd be down, but I can't speak for everyone.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.10.13 13:12:00 -
[15]
it is NOT a perfect orbit therefor your guns have to track!!!
btw even minmatar pilots would be smart enough to hit you with their leet 1400 mm howitzers if you orbit them at a perfect orbit since its predictable!
btw balance is > RL
and in this case its a balance issue ... however I agree that oversized ABs should get nerfed which eliminates the case where even small guns couldnt hit the target ...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.10.13 13:12:00 -
[16]
it is NOT a perfect orbit therefor your guns have to track!!!
btw even minmatar pilots would be smart enough to hit you with their leet 1400 mm howitzers if you orbit them at a perfect orbit since its predictable!
btw balance is > RL
and in this case its a balance issue ... however I agree that oversized ABs should get nerfed which eliminates the case where even small guns couldnt hit the target ...
Greetings Grim |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2004.10.13 13:58:00 -
[17]
realistic = boring, imbalanced and stupid
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2004.10.13 13:58:00 -
[18]
realistic = boring, imbalanced and stupid
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:33:00 -
[19]
hey! for once i agree (kinda) with a warmonger :P
yes its silly that orbitting makes it harder for you to shoot straight. but then, its also silly that MWDs can make you easier to hit (easier to spot? yes. easier to hit? why?)
its also silly that rail guns and projectiles hit instantly.
but basically... if it wasnt like this, the game wouldnt be balanced.
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:33:00 -
[20]
hey! for once i agree (kinda) with a warmonger :P
yes its silly that orbitting makes it harder for you to shoot straight. but then, its also silly that MWDs can make you easier to hit (easier to spot? yes. easier to hit? why?)
its also silly that rail guns and projectiles hit instantly.
but basically... if it wasnt like this, the game wouldnt be balanced.
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Phoenix Fyre
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:35:00 -
[21]
In all actuality, with the time in the future we are talking about in this game along with the progression of modern technology, technically niether turret should miss. Look at present day, battleships move forward and up and down in the ocean and they can fire a round over 100 miles and precisely hit the target, gravity, wind, and any other factors that may alter the path of the round. Now back to the game... a laser, hybrid, or conventional shot with the motion prediction and tracking ability of future weapons, the bullet should never miss, but where's the fun in that... no variable = no fun... then it would be simply who can put out the most damage over the least amount of time... missing allows for a better balance and the development of skills to enhance you combat. Just my opinion.
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What can I say i like to get friendly... I'm a Blasterax Pilot!!! |
Phoenix Fyre
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:35:00 -
[22]
In all actuality, with the time in the future we are talking about in this game along with the progression of modern technology, technically niether turret should miss. Look at present day, battleships move forward and up and down in the ocean and they can fire a round over 100 miles and precisely hit the target, gravity, wind, and any other factors that may alter the path of the round. Now back to the game... a laser, hybrid, or conventional shot with the motion prediction and tracking ability of future weapons, the bullet should never miss, but where's the fun in that... no variable = no fun... then it would be simply who can put out the most damage over the least amount of time... missing allows for a better balance and the development of skills to enhance you combat. Just my opinion.
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What can I say i like to get friendly... I'm a Blasterax Pilot!!! |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:52:00 -
[23]
i think "tranceversal velocity" should not take into account the speed and position of your own ship, only the target. we are not playing a math simulator remember? :\
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.13 14:52:00 -
[24]
i think "tranceversal velocity" should not take into account the speed and position of your own ship, only the target. we are not playing a math simulator remember? :\
"We brake for nobody"
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 16:11:00 -
[25]
iceblock, but then, what if you have 2 ships, flying side by side, at 2km/sec (rifters, lets say). should be quite an easy shot. but if transverse velocity only uses enemies speed, then youd never hit...
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.10.13 16:11:00 -
[26]
iceblock, but then, what if you have 2 ships, flying side by side, at 2km/sec (rifters, lets say). should be quite an easy shot. but if transverse velocity only uses enemies speed, then youd never hit...
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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DaProF
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Posted - 2004.10.13 16:42:00 -
[27]
use missiles end of story 
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DaProF
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Posted - 2004.10.13 16:42:00 -
[28]
use missiles end of story
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2004.10.13 17:07:00 -
[29]
i agree with DaProff, just toss on some missile launcher and who the hell cares what there transver volocity is as long as there slower then your missiles , and that is hard against the cormorant anyone else flow it 3500m/s light missile and rocket velocity damn thats nice.
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2004.10.13 17:07:00 -
[30]
i agree with DaProff, just toss on some missile launcher and who the hell cares what there transver volocity is as long as there slower then your missiles, and that is hard against the cormorant anyone else flow it 3500m/s light missile and rocket velocity damn thats nice.
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