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Best way to acquire datacores

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Space Piggy	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:01:00 - [1] Hi all, I'm considering trying invention on a new alt, and I read the various guides linked here, which have been quiet helpful. Of course, there are still a few things I don't understand very well. First, I understand one need datacores to launch the invention process. It seems that there are 2 ways to get those datacores : buy them on the market or get them from a R&D agent. Is it possible to make profit buying datacores ? Because I'm not sure I want to run missions with this alt as well. I don't understand very well the R&D agents : they do not give LPs but RPs, fine. But it seems that they give you datacores for free as well ? And permanently ? How is this possible ? What do you have to do to receive such a bless ? Thank you very much
Zenhexzen Endless Destruction	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:07:00 - [2] No a research agent doesn't require any work at all, you just need the standings and skills, start convo start research and you get Research points on a daily basis (a mission can be done daily to double research point gains for that day), certain datacores cost 100, others 50 research points, when you have enough you talk to him again and click buy datacores.
Kokura Nin	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:35:00 - [3] Edited by: Kokura Nin on 22/08/2009 07:36:08 Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. Remember that you could have sold the datacores on the market if you get them from R&D agents so the cost remains the same. Nothing in this game is free. Learn this early.
Yahweh Graf	Posted - 2009.08.22 08:23:00 - [4] do people still fly haulers afk to jita? ganktastic
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.22 18:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Ava Santiago on 22/08/2009 18:40:56 Edited by: Ava Santiago on 22/08/2009 18:40:44 Originally by: Yahweh Graf do people still fly haulers afk to jita? ganktastic I afk fly haulers to Jita all the time. But only when they are empty. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Devan Reale	Posted - 2009.08.22 22:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.08.22 22:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client. Originally by: Kokura Nin Remember that you could have sold the datacores on the market if you get them from R&D agents so the cost remains the same. .... you would save a few isk by avoiding market tax and mark up prices though. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Clara Mismer Minmatar Gulfonodi Industries	Posted - 2009.08.22 23:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client. No your just one of those people that get taxed over and over by life for not using math. If you have a commodity and you use it instead of selling it you have used something of value and it has a 'cost'. In this case the opportunity cost of selling the datacores.
Felix Yugoul	Posted - 2009.08.22 23:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Clara Mismer Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client. No your just one of those people that get taxed over and over by life for not using math. If you have a commodity and you use it instead of selling it you have used something of value and it has a 'cost'. In this case the opportunity cost of selling the datacores. To add upon that... If you used the datacore... your wallet didn't increase by the amount it would have it you sold it... Lost income If you use the datacores for invention, or whatever you use them for and decide as you do that they're "free" and thus instead of being worth 250k or whatever the particular core you have is selling for, and opt to decide they're only worth say..... 100k to you since you get them for "free" you're losing a lot of potential profit if you to just sell them, or use the market average for the item because it is worth something
Devan Reale	Posted - 2009.08.23 00:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Clara Mismer No your just one of those people that get taxed over and over by life for not using math. If you have a commodity and you use it instead of selling it you have used something of value and it has a 'cost'. In this case the opportunity cost of selling the datacores. The opportunity cost, especially when used in Eve conversations, is really irrelevent because in-game there is always--- ALWAYS--- the "opportunity" to make more isk than what you chose to go with. Each of us decides how far to travel to sell something, what market to use, etc, and by making that very decision we are all essentialy saying, "Wow, I know I'm going to lose potential isk, but if I sell it here I'll make ENOUGH." Every single transaction in Eve, including the taxes charges by the Universe, could POTENTIALLY be higher, so even the game is LOSING isk. I hope you can see how this is a foolish argument. Second, if I CHOOSE to use that datacore to create a T2 blueprint (which I do, by the way), then the MARKET VALUE of that datacore is used proportionally to establish my profit on any items produced by manufacturing those T2 items. In this case, you SELLING your datacore versus manufacturing the final T2 product would have LOST you money, according to your own argument. I make more in this transaction (done almost daily) than I would selling those datacores at market value. As relates to those datacores, my WALLET did not fall, it only rose (ie, no accounting cost). On my transactions that I use rather than sell datacores, I have always made more than if I'd sold those datacores, UNLESS I bought the datacores off the market (which is the only real cost to be considered in this argument). You guys seriously need to get a handle on value versus cost. I never--- NEVER--- produce or sell anything below market value, yet that seems to be the argument you all keep coming back to. Value (or potential value) does NOT mean cost.

Usagi Tsukino Miyazaki Zaibatsu APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.08.23 03:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Clara Mismer No your just one of those people that get taxed over and over by life for not using math. If you have a commodity and you use it instead of selling it you have used something of value and it has a 'cost'. In this case the opportunity cost of selling the datacores. The opportunity cost, especially when used in Eve conversations, is really irrelevent because in-game there is always--- ALWAYS--- the "opportunity" to make more isk than what you chose to go with. Each of us decides how far to travel to sell something, what market to use, etc, and by making that very decision we are all essentialy saying, "Wow, I know I'm going to lose potential isk, but if I sell it here I'll make ENOUGH." Every single transaction in Eve, including the taxes charges by the Universe, could POTENTIALLY be higher, so even the game is LOSING isk. I hope you can see how this is a foolish argument. Second, if I CHOOSE to use that datacore to create a T2 blueprint (which I do, by the way), then the MARKET VALUE of that datacore is used proportionally to establish my profit on any items produced by manufacturing those T2 items. In this case, you SELLING your datacore versus manufacturing the final T2 product would have LOST you money, according to your own argument. I make more in this transaction (done almost daily) than I would selling those datacores at market value. As relates to those datacores, my WALLET did not fall, it only rose (ie, no accounting cost). On my transactions that I use rather than sell datacores, I have always made more than if I'd sold those datacores, UNLESS I bought the datacores off the market (which is the only real cost to be considered in this argument). You guys seriously need to get a handle on value versus cost. I never--- NEVER--- produce or sell anything below market value, yet that seems to be the argument you all keep coming back to. Value (or potential value) does NOT mean cost. May I say... THIS! --- Usagi Tsukino // Miyazaki Zaibatsu
Ukucia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.08.23 04:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Devan Reale The opportunity cost, especially when used in Eve conversations, is really irrelevent because in-game there is always--- ALWAYS--- the "opportunity" to make more isk than what you chose to go with. K, so you don't understand opportunity cost.... Quote: Each of us decides how far to travel to sell something, what market to use, etc, and by making that very decision we are all essentialy saying, "Wow, I know I'm going to lose potential isk, but if I sell it here I'll make ENOUGH." Don't understand markets..... Quote: Every single transaction in Eve, including the taxes charges by the Universe, could POTENTIALLY be higher, so even the game is LOSING isk. I hope you can see how this is a foolish argument. Don't understand the effects of taxation on the market.... Quote: Second, if I CHOOSE to use that datacore to create a T2 blueprint (which I do, by the way), then the MARKET VALUE of that datacore is used proportionally to establish my profit on any items produced by manufacturing those T2 items. In this case, you SELLING your datacore versus manufacturing the final T2 product would have LOST you money, according to your own argument. And don't understand pricing at all. I believe you have an excellent career ahead of you at Goldman Sachs.
Brock Dillinger Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.08.23 05:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Ukucia tl;dr Some people just don't like their Sacred Cows challenged. Way to support the orthdoxy Ukecia.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.23 05:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client. It would have been better to say the value is the same, no matter how you acquire it.
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.08.23 06:25:00 - [15] The confusion about opportunity cost is laughable sometimes. You guys are really funny.
Lightningshade Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.08.23 12:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Devan Reale Originally by: Kokura Nin Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. So, how much does your wallet fall in ISK when you exchange 50 RPs for a datacore? I've never seen mine drop, so I'm curious. Maybe there's a bug in my client. Dont feed this troll
Chakarr	Posted - 2009.08.23 13:27:00 - [17] Back on topic... Seeing as how the skill required to invent the item is the same as the skill required to do research for the relevent datacores - i would say that the easiest way is to use a research agent to aquire datacores. As for standings, you only need a standing of 2.0 to use the low level R&D agents...you could use your main to run the missions for your alt if u really want...
Ishikaria	Posted - 2009.08.24 04:38:00 - [18] basically, which would get you more cash.. selling the datacores that you get from an agent or using them to build/invent something. go with whichever gets you the most isk per core (also works with minerals).
Jaden Stark	Posted - 2009.08.24 04:50:00 - [19] If I'm not mistaken, I think you can also find them occasionally in some Exploration sites that involve hacking. Take that with a grain of salt though, my exploration skills and knowledge aren't great, I just mostly search out Gravimetric sites to mine.
Millimage Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.08.24 07:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Jaden Stark If I'm not mistaken, I think you can also find them occasionally in some Exploration sites that involve hacking. Take that with a grain of salt though, my exploration skills and knowledge aren't great, I just mostly search out Gravimetric sites to mine. This is correct. You can get datacores as drops from radar exploration sites. The datacore types vary with the rat type (region). This, however, is not a very consistent way to get the cores so only think of it as an additional source if you want to do exploration. If you're thinking of inventing for profit (as opposite to personal use, in which case you can imho be a bit more lax about the whole value/cost issue and just enjoy the game) it's useful to keep in mind the basic rule of all manufacturing for sale: If it isn't profitable to invent/manufacture the item by buying the components from market, it is not profitable to invent/manufacture the item in any case. This is opportunity cost worded as a simple rule. Mining the minerals yourself or getting the datacores from R&D agents wont change this at all. Argumenting about how you spend your game time or what is fun for you wont change this at all. Those are personal values and have nothing to do with market values. If you don't get it, you don't get it and that is fine too. Just realize that you're not actually making isk but losing it. In such case you are inventing/manufacturing for fun, not for profit. ______________________ My EVE blog

MightyRhinox Minmatar Rhinox Heavy Industries Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.24 12:38:00 - [21] Edited by: MightyRhinox on 24/08/2009 12:38:27 Originally by: Kokura Nin Edited by: Kokura Nin on 22/08/2009 07:36:08 Business class 101: whether you buy them on the market or get them from R&D agents the cost of the datacores is the same. Remember that you could have sold the datacores on the market if you get them from R&D agents so the cost remains the same. Well, no it's not, the R&D agents I use are all spaced quite far apart, as a result collecting all of my cores can take two hours. If you want to play the economic cost vs. accounting cost game, the two hours it takes me costs me the 20mil or so I could have made in various other activities if I had simply gone and bought the cores. Opportunity cost also doesn't only apply to fiscal profit and loss, it also encompasses many kinds of cost, whether they be health costs IRL or the cost of enjoyment in EVE. I could simply sell my datacores and make slightly less than what I would inventing what I do, but doing so would cost me the profit of the enjoyment I get from inventing, manufacturing and selling things. What would you say is the monetary value of that enjoyment? Remember, opportunity costs mean that economic profit is always zero.
Xelios Xarxes	Posted - 2009.08.24 13:09:00 - [22] Edited by: Xelios Xarxes on 24/08/2009 13:15:26 I feel like I'm surrounded by students of economics 101 with all this black and white opportunity cost babble. Consider the amount of effort involved in the alternatives as well as what your abilities and knowledge limit you to. As an example gathering datacores is an easy, passive task which I'll take a little time to just fly around and do at those times I don't feel like doing anything involved. Something more labor intensive or am not skilled in/don't know how to do I would not be doing at that time anyway. You can apply this IRL as well, and the fact is you have to weigh it based on the effort involved in making the profit, not just flat numbers. If a little more profit requires a lot more effort in the same amount of time, or requires something you otherwise wouldn't be doing or are unable to do anyway, you're not anything. If you want to get technical sleeping has an opportunity cost, but I'll leave that for the pseudo-intellectuals to discuss.
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group Exiliar Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.25 16:22:00 - [23] The best argument I've seen for the materials having value is if you find a gold nugget in a stream with a market value of $500. You could sell it for $500, so why melt it down and make jewelry that sells for $400? With datacores it's a bit different than the minerals from mining & loot. There's a % chance you get absolutely nothing from them by using them.
Yarinor	Posted - 2009.08.25 18:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Cory Sopapilla The best argument I've seen for the materials having value is if you find a gold nugget in a stream with a market value of $500. You could sell it for $500, so why melt it down and make jewelry that sells for $400? With datacores it's a bit different than the minerals from mining & loot. There's a % chance you get absolutely nothing from them by using them. That makes it different how? that just makes it so you have to calculate after an averate profit instead of an absolute.
Ctica	Posted - 2009.08.26 11:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Kokura Nin Edited by: Kokura Nin on 22/08/2009 07:36:08 Nothing in this game is free. Learn this early. This path leads to madness. You'll be indexing the amount of time you go to the toilet to maximise some isk to material ratio. Because that all important +10000isk on rifter manifacturing will make you um... something. (anyway Kokura, I suggest you go back to that business class you seem to be confusing value with opportunity cost)
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.08.26 12:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Ukucia I believe you have an excellent career ahead of you at Goldman Sachs. I was going to recommend Lehmen Brothers Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Venarator Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.08.26 14:20:00 - [27] I Get mine free from my agents and work out my costs based on this and I can do this cos its a game.


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