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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2144
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quick update on Day 1 of the summit. Sorry if this is a bit of a teaser of a post, but we don't want to spoil the minutes.
CSM Intro / White Paper
We discussed a broad range of procedural topics, including reforms to the CSM election process and possible other structural changes. There will be an internal discussion of these things followed by a public discussion period before anything is decided.
We gave the new meeting recording / remote conference system its first live test, and it seems to work well. We also discussed and will implement some ways to improve the level of detail in the minutes.
What is a Stakeholder?
A very productive discussion with Senior Producer Unifex about the role of the CSM in the development process, in particular release planning. During the next development cycle, some test projects will be undertaken to determine the best way to fold CSM input into the process at earlier stages.
Winter 2012 / EVE Future
Broad discussion of what CCP plans to do in the near, medium and long-term, including some preparation for discussions later in the summit. Some very interesting stuff is going into the pipeline.
The State of Incarna
We got a briefing on the goals CCP has for Incarna. Large parts of this in the minutes may well be NDA'd, but it was a very positive meeting.
Live Events
Closing out the day, we had a session devoted to finding ways to encourage more live events, both CCP-created and also player-created (such as Hulkageddon). Some interesting stuff IMHO.
The final event was an excellent indian dinner at a restaurant fast becoming a CSM favorite. Some of the ideas that came up in conversation were brilliant, demented, or both -- the one about a special event during the Alliance Tournament being in the latter category.
CCP Unifex was sending email notes to himself during the entire dinner, which allowed those seated nearby to consume more than their fair share of the Naan. The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sorry if this is a nay sayer post.
But what was the purpose of this again?
Because I literally saw nothing of productive or constructive use in this post....it might as well been completely ignored or dropped.
I mean all you said is you came...you saw....you ate...and you left.
That's it...nothing else.
Very very poor. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Rhianna Ghost
Eagle Technologies Avateas Blessed
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Sorry if this is a nay sayer post.
But what was the purpose of this again?
Because I literally saw nothing of productive or constructive use in this post....it might as well been completely ignored or dropped.
I mean all you said is you came...you saw....stuff was done but we can't tell you that...so we won't....you ate...and you left.
That's it...nothing else.
Very very poor.
What's the point of saying anything at all if you have literally nothing to say.
Negative? yeah....especially in light of recent events.
PS: And shouldn't this be in jita park since there's literally no content to benefit assembly hall?
It is a life signt, a reminder, that we as the playerbase are not fogotten by our elected council.
I like it. Keep on. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rhianna Ghost wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Sorry if this is a nay sayer post.
But what was the purpose of this again?
Because I literally saw nothing of productive or constructive use in this post....it might as well been completely ignored or dropped.
I mean all you said is you came...you saw....stuff was done but we can't tell you that...so we won't....you ate...and you left.
That's it...nothing else.
Very very poor.
What's the point of saying anything at all if you have literally nothing to say.
Negative? yeah....especially in light of recent events.
PS: And shouldn't this be in jita park since there's literally no content to benefit assembly hall? It is a life signt, a reminder, that we as the playerbase are not fogotten by our elected council. I like it. Keep on.
If you like political bull##### posting and fluff with candies and ice creams with promises of unicorns and rainbows...sure.
Whatever floats your boat.... but I call bull####.
================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
659
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
good teaser update, I'll be sure to check the final minutes. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2147
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am sorry that you are disappointed that, after 10 hours of meetings, a working dinner, and intense discussions late into the night, your sleep-deprived and jetlagged representatives could not produce a detailed multi-page synopsis of the meetings over breakfast and get it NDA-vetted before doing the pre-meeting prep for Day 2.
Given the >100 man-hours of effort that will go into the production of those detailed notes -- they are called minutes -- and your obvious burning need to read them, the only suggestion I can make is that you should run for the next CSM, get elected, and attend the meetings in person. No doubt you will do a much better job of informing the community than the current bunch of incompetents.
Love and Kisses, Trebor
The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I am sorry that you are disappointed that, after 10 hours of meetings, a working dinner, and intense discussions late into the night, your sleep-deprived and jetlagged representatives could not produce a detailed multi-page synopsis of the meetings over breakfast and get it NDA-vetted before doing the pre-meeting prep for Day 2.
Given the >100 man-hours of effort that will go into the production of those detailed notes -- they are called minutes -- and your obvious burning need to read them, the only suggestion I can make is that you should run for the next CSM, get elected, and attend the meetings in person. No doubt you will do a much better job of informing the community than the current bunch of incompetents.
Love and Kisses, Trebor
Maybe you should learn to read before you respond.
I got more information out of two-steps posts in Jita park than the horse crap you slung here.
All you've told us is you went to a meeting and dined and thats it.
There is litterally no content.
A simple "We're posting the minutes soon so be patient with us" would have been more productive than the tripe you posted there.
This isn't Jita park...we're not interested in your political grand standing and top hats with canes and monocles posturing.
If your going to communicate...do so with constructive information and not fluff. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|

Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ah, you gotta love your loyal fanbase 
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |

Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1661
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
The way this works is that we are basically in meetings from about 0830 until 1800 local time with a few short breaks for three days straight. We then all head out to dinner for some ~real talk~ chill time with the devs where a lot of the stuff discussed during the day that we ran out of time for gets delved into more deeply. Trebor managed to throw this quick summary together (as he always manages to do somehow) to give people at least a minimal update of our impressions of that day's sessions. After we all fly home, we'll start working on the minutes. While that is going on I will write up a blog that goes into a bit more detail about the summit as a whole. More info is coming, obviously, but as the summit progresses it seems like folks would want to know, at minimum, that things are going well and there have been no 'Incarna-level' type events take place yet. v0v CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1448
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:I got more information out of two-steps posts in Jita park than the horse crap you slung here.
Which ones? |
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Xavier Kaine
Valeth Imperial Command Hades.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dude, for real? What was political about that. Here's what I learned: CSM election process and structure are being looked into, Incarna discussons were started on day one, always good, more ccp/player hosted live events. And who doesn't like a dinner story. You should thank your god of preference that trebor is there and posting and not darius. |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xavier Kaine wrote:Dude, for real? What was political about that. Here's what I learned: CSM election process and structure are being looked into, Incarna discussons were started on day one, always good, more ccp/player hosted live events. And who doesn't like a dinner story. You should thank your god of preference that trebor is there and posting and not darius.
Hillarious....seriously..thats funny.
Mara - Oh the bulk of the threads where people are actually discussing crap that should be in this forum....my point is theres something constructive going on over there.
This is just grandstanding.
Oh sure...we are "doing stuff"
Ok....
"But we can't tell you what it is"
Yeah....sure..... let us know when you actually start doing something. Thanks.  ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|

Jean Leaner
Kickass inc Nulli Secunda
57
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Xavier Kaine wrote:Dude, for real? What was political about that. Here's what I learned: CSM election process and structure are being looked into, Incarna discussons were started on day one, always good, more ccp/player hosted live events. And who doesn't like a dinner story. You should thank your god of preference that trebor is there and posting and not darius. Hillarious....seriously..thats funny. Mara - Oh the bulk of the threads where people are actually discussing crap that should be in this forum....my point is theres something constructive going on over there. This is just grandstanding. Oh sure...we are "doing stuff" Ok.... "But we can't tell you what it is" Yeah....sure..... let us know when you actually start doing something. Thanks. 
Look at the CFC member crying guys. |

Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
162
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Sorry if this is a nay sayer post.
But what was the purpose of this again?
Because I literally saw nothing of productive or constructive use in this post....it might as well been completely ignored or dropped.
I mean all you said is you came...you saw....stuff was done but we can't tell you that...so we won't....you ate...and you left.
That's it...nothing else.
Very very poor.
What's the point of saying anything at all if you have literally nothing to say.
Negative? yeah....especially in light of recent events.
PS: And shouldn't this be in jita park since there's literally no content to benefit assembly hall?
Sorry Drake, I usually agree with most of what you say, but over the last couple of days you've started making yourself sound like a complete tool. You spent all that time trolling the other topic to say CSM wasn't comunicative enough with us, and now that you got what you wanted your complaining that they were actually paying attention to the player base..
Just grow up man, seriously. Its nice to get an update from time to time, even if there isn't a great deal of content in it. |

None ofthe Above
197
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Rhianna Ghost wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Sorry if this is a nay sayer post.
But what was the purpose of this again?
Because I literally saw nothing of productive or constructive use in this post....it might as well been completely ignored or dropped.
I mean all you said is you came...you saw....stuff was done but we can't tell you that...so we won't....you ate...and you left.
That's it...nothing else.
Very very poor.
What's the point of saying anything at all if you have literally nothing to say.
Negative? yeah....especially in light of recent events.
PS: And shouldn't this be in jita park since there's literally no content to benefit assembly hall? It is a life signt, a reminder, that we as the playerbase are not fogotten by our elected council. I like it. Keep on. If you like political bull##### posting and fluff with candies and ice creams with promises of unicorns and rainbows...sure. Whatever floats your boat.... but I call bull####.
I am as quick as anyone else to hold the CSM's feet to the fire, but I call bull### on you, here.
Two step is secretary, and if he's putting out more informative posts that would be appropriate, that's his office.
Trebor is near-live blogging an NDA'ed event. I think maybe you should cut him some slack here. Save the condemnation for a case where it is deserved.
Thanks for the update, Trebor.
|

Di Mulle
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hey, Trebor got a fan - of sorts. <<Insert some waste of screen space here>> |

Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
145
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks for the update Trebor. Keep it up. |

Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I am sorry that you are disappointed that, after 10 hours of meetings, a working dinner, and intense discussions late into the night, your sleep-deprived and jetlagged representatives could not produce a detailed multi-page synopsis of the meetings over breakfast and get it NDA-vetted before doing the pre-meeting prep for Day 2.
Given the >100 man-hours of effort that will go into the production of those detailed notes -- they are called minutes -- and your obvious burning need to read them, the only suggestion I can make is that you should run for the next CSM, get elected, and attend the meetings in person. No doubt you will do a much better job of informing the community than the current bunch of incompetents.
Love and Kisses, Trebor
Maybe you should learn to read before you respond. I got more information out of two-steps posts in Jita park than the horse crap you slung here. All you've told us is you went to a meeting and dined and thats it. There is litterally no content. A simple "We're posting the minutes soon so be patient with us" would have been more productive than the tripe you posted there. This isn't Jita park...we're not interested in your political grand standing and top hats with canes and monocles posturing. If your going to communicate...do so with constructive information and not fluff. Attending "100's of hours meetings" would imply a hell of alot more content than the mere excuse of "NDA". that's like posting a document with black bars painted on the page...why bother posting in the first place if that's all you got.
To paraphrase a previous statement you made to me about my right to have my say:
Perhaps you should be a CSM for 6 Months (Minimum) before you make any suggestions on the way they work!
I think most of us got plenty out of it and are glad to hear things are coming along well. And it state very clearly it was but a teaser. So i can only suggest that Drake Draconis wrote:Maybe you should learn to read before you respond. |

Cid Tazer
The Green Cross Red Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nice writeup Treb. As a side note, can you give Greyscale, Ytterbium, and other devs a spork with "Dev Blogs are good" engraved on them? Just to remind them that dev blogs of changes are good. |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2178
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
CSM is constantly encouraging CCP to communicate more, and at the earliest possible stage in the process. I think you'll see more of this during the summer.
The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |
|

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
677
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Drake, you seriously need to calm the **** down. You were one of the ones yelling the loudest about lack of CSM communication.
At least Trebor took the time to let us know about some of the basics that were covered. In public speaking, or presentations, it's a little thing called a keyword outline. He let us know "Hey, here is some of the stuff discussed to keep you all in the loop, but I'll get to details once the minutes are done."
That's a little thing called a professional courtesy. So shove a pacifier in it, and wait patiently like everyone else.
And also, learn to read. He didn't say he attended 100's of hours of meetings.
He said it will take 100's of man hours to comb through the detailed meeting notes to ensure there is no NDA material in them. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
When are the minutes being released? a week? less? more? I'm looking for an estimate of posting date. I haven't followed the CSM closely before so I don't have the schedules for the CSM meetings listed anywhere.
Drake has always sounded a bit like a tool,
this thread doesn't tell me anything other then you've had a meeting, I guess that that is important, but there is no meat in it.
of course, teaser, yeah little meat implied.
on a side note, is there anywhere on the CCP forums that CSM post their platforms? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |

Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
656
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Drake, you seriously need to calm the **** down. You were one of the ones yelling the loudest about lack of CSM communication.
At least Trebor took the time to let us know about some of the basics that were covered. In public speaking, or presentations, it's a little thing called a keyword outline. He let us know "Hey, here is some of the stuff discussed to keep you all in the loop, but I'll get to details once the minutes are done."
That's a little thing called a professional courtesy. So shove a pacifier in it, and wait patiently like everyone else.
And also, learn to read. He didn't say he attended 100's of hours of meetings.
He said it will take 100's of man hours to comb through the detailed meeting notes to ensure there is no NDA material in them.
My point is communicaiton is pointless without content.
Thats it....oh sure hes flapping his gums.
But thats all I'm seeing. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
776
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I am sorry that you are disappointed that, after 10 hours of meetings, a working dinner, and intense discussions late into the night, your sleep-deprived and jetlagged representatives could not produce a detailed multi-page synopsis of the meetings over breakfast and get it NDA-vetted before doing the pre-meeting prep for Day 2.
Given the >100 man-hours of effort that will go into the production of those detailed notes -- they are called minutes -- and your obvious burning need to read them, the only suggestion I can make is that you should run for the next CSM, get elected, and attend the meetings in person. No doubt you will do a much better job of informing the community than the current bunch of incompetents.
Love and Kisses, Trebor
Maybe you should learn to read before you respond. I got more information out of two-steps posts in Jita park than the horse crap you slung here. All you've told us is you went to a meeting and dined and thats it. There is litterally no content. A simple "We're posting the minutes soon so be patient with us" would have been more productive than the tripe you posted there. This isn't Jita park...we're not interested in your political grand standing and top hats with canes and monocles posturing. If your going to communicate...do so with constructive information and not fluff. Attending "100's of hours meetings" would imply a hell of alot more content than the mere excuse of "NDA". that's like posting a document with black bars painted on the page...why bother posting in the first place if that's all you got.
i love how you get zero likes. Your basiclly asking for less communcation from the CSM. lol. well if you don't like it, keep your mouth shut so the rest of us can know what they are up too. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |

cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hello there. Have any of you brought up how bad the new UI is with ccp?
If not, please discuss this issue. Any feedback on this would be great. Thanks. Ignore This.-á "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |

Flamespar
Woof Club
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hopefully the Incarna stuff won't be too heavily NDA'd, it would be nice to have some certainty that it is actually going somewhere, and have something to look forward to.
Walking in POS + Prometheus style exploration = win I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |

Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 02:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: i love how you get zero likes. Your basiclly asking for less communcation from the CSM. lol. well if you don't like it, keep your mouth shut so the rest of us can know what they are up too.
Likes are a valid determination of how much his argument is worth?
And we still dont know what they are up to, in fact the last thread that he was trolling about the lack of CSM communication got us some communication
this is not to say that its the only way, or that its going to be a consistently effective tool, but it was effective once. this thread is not a real information thread, although it does say that in the op.
its a teaser thread. it teases. objective : complete
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
662
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:~tantrum~
I guess they breed em dumb & rude in your part of the galaxy. Don't you have any traffic jams to honk in and generally be an ass in somewhere?
Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I was glad to have had some information, those for instance not in twitter would have been updated by this post. But I guess your just to special to realize that it isn't about you, its about getting information out to everybody. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1678
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:And we still dont know what they are up to, in fact the last thread that he was trolling about the lack of CSM communication got us some communication
This is what we are up to - Three days of meetings in Iceland.
Today is the final day. Trebor's updates (Day 2 is here) are all we have time to produce while we are here, aside from a few of us that are using Twitter to do live updates from time to time during the sessions. We will all be flying home this weekend and will then start sorting out the official minutes. That will probably take 2-4 weeks depending on people's RL work schedules and reviewing them for NDA stuff. I will work up a blog early next week detailing what I can about the summit as a whole prior to that. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
568
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thank you Trebor and Seleene, at least you have made it clear that CSM is actually working. Stay the course, keep up the good work CSM !
To Drake :- People looking for quick and instant fixes and feedback are being totally unrealistic. Not every post made by a CSM member must have content specific to your likes, Drake. An informational about what is being done and which events are being attended is just that - an informational. I suspect that even when the minutes are released, you will have something negative to say about that too. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
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