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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.06.23 09:59:00 -
[1]
I heard someone complain about missiles not being profitable, so here is my experience with missiles/rockets so far.
I started using missiles on my Tristan yesterday, started small with 250 ISK rockets and now moved up to Flamebursts.
I can get Flamebursts for 1300 ISK a piece if I travel alittle, I use 2 - 4 Flamebursts on a Guard depending on the cap left for my medium lasers.
I got a good deal yesterday from Drunkenmaster who sold me 22 Flamebursts for 1000 ISK a piece which left me with 1000 ISK in the bank. When I used those up and had recycled everything and purchased new Flamebursts for 1300 ISK a piece, I had 20.000 ISK left in the bank with a full launcher, 12 Flamebursts, and another 8 missiles in my cargobay to go hunting again.
So there is some profit killing the low NPC's with 2500 - 4000 ISK bounty on them, I am sure there is more profit if they drop good loot which you can sell for decent cash.
I still recycle most things, need to look into selling some things like Hull repairers on the market so I can make more ISK then I do now, but atleast I make a profit and it beats the boring mining thing.
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
Main
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:08:00 -
[2]
You would of made a lot more profit by solely using hybrids, projectiles or even more by using lasers.
Main
Everlasting Vendetta Veteran
Member of the Stain Alliance |
Game
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:11:00 -
[3]
Why don't you just get missiles for free from a convoy? You can get 150+ missiles per ship usually
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:21:00 -
[4]
I am using Medium lasers, as stated in my post, and attacking convoys is suicide, I killed 100s of NPC pirates and am still sec 0.0, I have no deadwish. It takes me a day to replace the equipment I have mounted, I know it takes that long cause I exploded last friday, took me around 10 gaming hours to get back in the Tristan with same combat capability.
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:24:00 -
[5]
If you want to laugh, just take a single medium fusion projectile bullet and a single heavy missile.
Then compare those :
.the cargo space used
.the quantity of ammo you can charge in a typical gun
.the damage
.the chances to hit the target
.the fire rate
.the cost
.the speed at wich the bullet or missile travel to the target
.the risk for your security status if you damage a friend ship due to area damage
.you can't use attack drones at the same time as missiles
.the lack of any modificator item for missiles in game.
And you will see very fast than the projectile bullet is winner in ALL categories hand down.
Missiles are just fun toys imho.
If you want to make money out of them, recycle them and sell the minerals. :)
Edited by: Endyl on 23/06/2003 10:29:33
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Game
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:43:00 -
[6]
"I am using Medium lasers, as stated in my post, and attacking convoys is suicide, I killed 100s of NPC pirates and am still sec 0.0, I have no deadwish. It takes me a day to replace the equipment I have mounted, I know it takes that long cause I exploded last friday, took me around 10 gaming hours to get back in the Tristan with same combat capability."
Then you're obviously doing something wrong:
I can solo convoys with a Merlin and 2 Medium Modulated Beams quite easily.
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.06.23 10:56:00 -
[7]
I've been looking for those Modulated Pulse lasers all weekend, since before I lost my first tristan. Late last night someone offered me one, but the trip there would cost me my ship and quite possibly my clone and he probably wants 500k for it, i have 20k as i stated in my post.
I thought attacking convoys lowered my sec rating ? I prefer not to be attacked/die when I go buy a skill or something else I need.
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
Game
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Posted - 2003.06.23 11:03:00 -
[8]
No, attacking convoys affects your FACTION rating not SEC rating. All you have to do is attack some pirates to quickly raise you Factio rating for the relevant house/corp
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.06.23 13:42:00 -
[9]
I'm beginning to think about hiring myself out to corporations to protect their mining operations, did some miner protection the past few days, pays better then hunting on my own. But my little playtime makes me less popular with the corporations, why hire someone for a few hours a day when you can hire someone who has more time ?
But what would be a good place to take a shot at a convoy without Concorde or the convoy itsself destroying the only asset I have, my Tristan ?
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.06.23 14:06:00 -
[10]
I rule!
The main problem I found with the missiles is their speed. The main benefit was their range over other frigate-based weaponry.
And if you are hunting anything less than 10K pirates with them, they are not cost effective.
I got some more of those if you're interested, DJ
As for convoy robbing, as long as you are more than 55km away from *everything* else (station/station guns/etc.) then you should be okay.
I've heard of cargo of anything between 7000 garbage and 1000 harvesters. So, like all other routes in Eve, it will pay off if you persevere.
Also, you lose 0.35 faction rating with whoever the station belonged to, so avoid ripping off your home federation stations. If you want to keep your faction ratings good, then don't hit more than 2 ships per week per faction. Your faction standing increases by 0.1 every day, so you'll be back to 0.0 in a week.
Good luck
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 23/06/2003 14:10:34
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whoda1
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Posted - 2003.06.23 19:51:00 -
[11]
You lose security status too.
I was merrily attacking convoys thinking I was only affecting faction standings, when lo and behold, I'm at a -1.0 security rating.
Also different convoy ships drop different amounts of items. NEVER blow a convoy ship that starts with a T is my advice.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:03:00 -
[12]
Missiles are cost effective, if you get them free.
Looking in my hangar I currently have:
10 Firefly FOF Light
1 Hellbound FOF Heavy
40 Seeker FOF Light
20 Bloodclaw
20 Flameburst
27 Pirahna
10 Sabertooth
1 Thunderbolt Heavy
17 Gremlin
1 Inferno Torpedo
2 Mjolnir Torpedos
10 Phalanx
33 Thorn Rockets
That's obviously from the odd batch amounts, I've dipped in my stores a few times. I don't use missiles anymore, choosing smartbombs as a missile barrier instead.
The other thing is not to use missiles only for the kill. Either use missiles to take down the shields and finish with guns. Or use guns to take down the shields and finish with a missile. Against Agnel Hunters (which throw plenty of missiles), I'd toss 2 Sabertooth on the way in. By the time I closed to effective range, the missiles had detonated and the hunter only required a few shots to finish.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jazger
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:23:00 -
[13]
firstly - stop buying missles. If you plan to use missles, agist any type of target your really huting your profit margin
Just go out with your guns (perfearble enery weapons to avoid any ammo costs.) Kill as many pirates as you can. Haveing spent no money on ammo or missles. the whole of the bounty can be counted as profit.
Use that profit to buy the BP of the perfered missle and/or ammo you wish to use.
From that point on - Loot EVERYthing. even ammo and items you know are junk/useless to you/sell for so low an amount of isk. to be pointless.
You will wind up haveing to make more station trips to off load, but in the end it will pay off.
Sell off your loot as normal. Then if you refuse to mine at all, simple recycle the items that don't sell for anything. You use energy? recycle all that hybrid or projectile ammo.
useing the Ores - either locate and rent a factory, Or find people who will 'lease' the use of thiers for a low ammount. Then simple use the minirals you recived from recycling to build your missles.
(take note - always check the amount of minrials an item would give you. an electron blaster just one gives no zydine. 2 of them on the other hand gives 1, 3 of them can give 2. at lest with lvl 3 refine. should test to see. If nessary bank items utill you have sevral to bring up the ammount of high end minrials you get.
A'volia - "free" missles/ammo you can then use to go out and hunt more pirates/stronger pirates.
but in the end you need to look at your 'profit' You hunted pirates and in the end, you had a whoping 20k? After takeing missle costs into account right?
Not to be mean, But WOW! way to go man! your really rolling in isk after that trip. 10 trips of that and you'll make 200k. 100 trips and you've made 2mill. 200 trips and you might be able to afford a crusier.
If your going to hunt pirate as your main form of income, don't bother with missle or even ammo based weapons. They are costing you profit, even by just useing the ammo you find off pirates you hurting your self. As you could sell that ammo or the minrials for extra isk.
forget ammo/missle use energy weapons only. Save your missles for extream cases where its - use or die.
Other wise you're never going to make decent money. lest till you get to the 10k or more pirates. even then the ammount of ammo and missles will still destroy your days profit.
the other option is to do as you said - find miners to defend, but even then don't waste missles unless thier no other choice. As every missle you fire is a drop in your profit.
Another note- avoid useing missle IN an astroid belt, only use if the pirate/target is out side of the belt as the chances are to great that as the pirate moves around you missle will hit a rock and be wasted.
I lose tons of missles that way. But as i'm mainly a miner with a missle for basic defensive power, i can afford the loss. Who cares about loseing 50k in missle a day when you make 1mill for the mineing that day (plus i have the BP, can freely mine 90% of the stuff it needs. and can get a slot to build them pretty much when ever i need to)
You have to have profit to advance. Have to make isk to buy new skills, ships, better weapons.
Jazger
"why it is a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in. Somebodies makeing a penny." Unknowen.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:33:00 -
[14]
Jazger:
Not exactly true. I use 3 Dual 150mm Scout Artillery in my Rifter with EMP ammo. I do buy about 35k-50k worth ammo (as the factory/lab slot situation sucks) daily. I've got about 30 skills, including fun skills like surgical strike, tactical shield manipulations and cruiser. I've spent about 600k on replacement Rifters (i'm hard on my toys). I make about 500k per day on pirates I know to be safe.
I've also got 157k trit, 62k pyr, 8.3k mex, 3.6k iso, 807 nox, 40 zy and 14 meg from my last refine run alone (dunno how much I've made from previous refine runs).
Paying for ammo will not hurt you in the least so long as you don't waste it on npcs not worth the shots.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:37:00 -
[15]
what I wanna know is...DO THE BLOODY COPS ATTACK YOU IF YOU ATTACK CONVOYS.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jazger
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:46:00 -
[16]
Jash Illian -
true, and i did mention that, (i believe i said somehting about 10k+ pirates and such.)
But tha ammo cost is still cutting into your profit margin. Not as much as you go up in bountys but still its cutting in.
But the main point of my post is correct no?
Jazger
ôItÆs not important how many people IÆve killed, whats important is how I get along with thouse that are still alive.ö - Bruce Willis - Whole 9 yards.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:51:00 -
[17]
Why dont you just equip 6 smartbombs, a weapon disruptor, a stasis webifier and sit next to NPC's while setting off all 6 smartbombs?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jazger
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Posted - 2003.06.23 20:58:00 -
[18]
what I wanna know is...DO THE BLOODY COPS ATTACK YOU IF YOU ATTACK CONVOYS.
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no. In the few convoys i've attacked, in a .7 sec system the cops didn't show up.
Of corse i'm told if you attack a convoy with in about 45k or so of a sentry gun, the gun will open fire. and it does more dmg then the cops do.
Follow your target convoy, once thier about 50k from the station and guns, fly past them, then begin attacking.
The convoys i've fought had pretty impressive dmg out put. Like 40 pet hit.
But had extrodinalty bad range. Was able to keep at a nice safe range of 10k and not get attacked back. when i was at 6k they beat me up bad. had to run away.
Also - it is possable, for me at lest to figure out where the convoy is. I have located convoys 200k from a station. Found a convoy i was thinking about attacking.
But didn't want to risk loseing standing for bad loot. so i went and got me a cargo scaner from my hanger.
Flew back. Convoy was gone. Fly around but couldn't find it. So i warped to the next closest station that was in the convoys flight path. Noticed the as i came out of warp i saw the NPC target icon. But once i finished warp and was around the station it was no where near.
So, i turned on after burner and head out in that direction. (back the way i came. but in normal travle not warp) after about 5 mins or so i picked up the convoy about 150k from me. So i started to close in.
Was able to fight the convoy with no problems. No where near the station.
Problem i had was it seems cargo scaners don't work on NPCs. tried it on like 8 difrent ships, but they showed nothing.
finaly got annoyed and attacked one, took it out and had a rather nice stock pile of ammo. annoying, but eh was ammo i can use. The 2.5k anti-matter M. was rather nice. plenty of ammo to last awhile for my 250mm rail gun.
(i've not fought enough pirates or the right ones to find good crusier guns as of yet. mainly a miner who fights as a side line.)
didn't lose and sec rateing. lost some standing with Caldari navy. But eh. just need to move to Galente or what even them pansys are called, attack thier convoys, could care less if thier navy hates me ;)
Jazger
æTwo thousand years of civilization, and weÆve got people walking around with the manfacturersÆ labes on the outside of their clothes.ö
- Eric Idle
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Jazger
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Posted - 2003.06.23 21:04:00 -
[19]
Why dont you just equip 6 smartbombs, a weapon disruptor, a stasis webifier and sit next to NPC's while setting off all 6 smartbombs?
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tis possable yes. but depending on cap needs and such. And on the HP of the NPC ships.
you'll either run out of juice, or wind up destroying one of the NPCs before the other. Meaning Cargo can in space.
And i'm told that smart bombs can destroy cans. Not sure if thats true, but not willing to risk it. (edit - as if it does, a destroyed can is lost loot. not good if fighting for loot... Could be wrong about that, but is what i've been told.)
As my osprey can use med turents, and in its curent set up is faster then the NPC convoys, I can just orbit ar 10 to 15k and blast the crap out of them at my leisure. Once thier dead, move in to collect my loot.
My way = no dmg at all, dead npcs, and can target one at a time. (though i've had a few get way, mainly do to lag i was gettings. but not the one i was attacking.) ie - i culled my target from the herd and took it down while rest of herd moved on.
Your way = have to keep re targeting npc mobs to keep then locked in one place and disrubted. Plus keep spending cap on smartbombs. (Which don't do that much dmg.)
If put my way up aginst yours i believe i could drop the whole convoys fast and with less hassle over all.
Jazger
JESUS SAVES...He Passes It To Gretzky...Gretzky Shoots. He Scores!
Edited by: Jazger on 23/06/2003 21:07:23
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2003.06.23 21:04:00 -
[20]
Just buy the prints... It is FAR Cheaper. :)
http://www.siegedom.org/Files/images/EveShipMissiles.jpg
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Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.06.23 21:06:00 -
[21]
and if you cant find a factory we'll always do you a bulk light missile deal.
Say 500 isk per, for 1000 or more.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.06.23 22:36:00 -
[22]
My Moa couldn't orbit a stationary hedgehog floating in space while moving downhill with rollerblades on.
Why is a topline cruiser so freakin' slow? I have to lose med slots for speed or lose 50% shields for speed.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Darkannis
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Posted - 2003.06.23 23:19:00 -
[23]
Because its a cruiser and not a fighter.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.23 23:27:00 -
[24]
<< And i'm told that smart bombs can destroy cans. Not sure if thats true, but not willing to risk it. (edit - as if it does, a destroyed can is lost loot. not good if fighting for loot... Could be wrong about that, but is what i've been told.) >>
Seems about 3-4 pulses from a micro rudimentary concussion smartbomb will destroy a cargo pod. I did it to get a baseline for when I'm fighting missile using pirates.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sinzer
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Posted - 2003.06.24 00:21:00 -
[25]
Missiles are excellent for packing a hard punch when you are closing in. Also for multiple targets you can just fire them at target B while shooting target A.
And yes manufacturing them is the best way. I make loads of missiles and still have plenty of minerals spare for selling.
************************************
Explorer Extradonaire
Any contract large or small
Http://www.explore-eve.net |
DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.06.24 07:02:00 -
[26]
Lots of responces :-)
I think I will stay away from blasting NPC convoys until I'm in a more powerfull ship.
I upped my profits last night, made 110k total after recycling what I did not need and I only used up a few of my missiles so I have some left for tonight. And after killing a few hundred pirates I finally upped my sec status to 0.1, YAY :-)
Morkt Drak:
I will contact you ingame about that missile deal if that's ok with you. I should have 500k around friday, 500 a piece sounds like a good deal and a 1000 missiles would fill my needs for the coming weeks, since I only use them on Guards and higher pirates, sometimes I use one on a courier but only if he has escorts.
Thanks for everyone's view on using missiles.
Dennis
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
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