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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.08.26 02:18:00 -
[1]
July dividend paid: 2.4b isk (4%)
Hard month. Continually depressed carrier pricing, and flooding of market with severely underpriced Nidhoggur/Archon has seen an almost 0 profit month for the business. After dividend, the business lost 2.25b for the month (dividend of 2.4b).
A full carrier cycle has just started, but no component build cycle on yet (looking to start in the next 24-48 hrs).
Options are to operate business as usual, scale back production to focus on Chimera/Thanatos, halt production until all prices improve or liquidate. I welcome investor feedback in this decision.
August NAV sheet can be found on eve-files, here.
You can find the July report here.
Regards, Sugar
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.08.26 02:36:00 -
[2]
Original IPO document guaranteed the 4% dividend with a potential increase to 10%.
If the business can't meet the dividend agreement then you should liquidate, and stop the losses.
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:40:00 -
[3]
Agreed with Cosmo, if you're running at a loss and it dosn't look like turning around any time soon then I'd prefer liquidation.
According to the original IPO and subsequent expansion, you have 60 bil initial investment.
Your NAV sheet indicates a current NAV of about 57.5 bil. Assuming that you were actually to get the listed value for all the assets, that's not too bad.
If you then include the dividend payments so far then you'd be looking at a modest overall profit. Not exactly ideal but a lot better than slowing losing money every month despite the effort you are putting in. The best thing is that you know what's happening and have good reporting in place. I don't really know the market so if you believe you can turn this around then I would trust you but right now, I'd take the liquidation option.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:48:00 -
[4]
As one of the original investors, I agree with what Cosmo and Ambo have said. If the business is looking unprofitable, punch out of it. Liquidate assets and repay the shareholders. This is a far more palatable option than continuing to operate at a loss, especially as paying dividends while doing so is likely to leave you with no liquid isk.
 Originally by: "CCP Pann"
Over the last few days, the internet has been under attack
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
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Posted - 2009.08.26 08:26:00 -
[5]
What BPOs have you got locked down in this operation? I might be able to provide them a good home.
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Saehta
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.08.26 11:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: cosmoray
Original IPO document guaranteed the 4% dividend with a potential increase to 10%.
If the business can't meet the dividend agreement then you should liquidate, and stop the losses.
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Mike'P
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Posted - 2009.08.26 12:40:00 -
[7]
As a shareholder, but not someone who has ever got involved in this particular market, I am personally happy for production to be halted pending improvements in prices - however, there should be a time limit set on that option with liquidation as a fallback.
My gut tells me that scaling back would just expose the operation to price deterioration on the other items.
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RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.08.26 16:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: cosmoray
Original IPO document guaranteed the 4% dividend with a potential increase to 10%.
If the business can't meet the dividend agreement then you should liquidate, and stop the losses.
While you've done a good job of providing dividends, even through Atima's disappearance, it doesn't make sense for the operation to continue if it's simply treading water in the hopes of a future market upswing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.08.26 17:46:00 -
[9]
Excuse me as I was not playing EvE when this started... is carriers production that bad? Because that was where I wanted to go...
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.08.26 17:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Excuse me as I was not playing EvE when this started... is carriers production that bad? Because that was where I wanted to go...
It is very slow right now, probably because of not enough cap ship battles. Problem wtih cap ships is once you gear up production, it is hard to idle. As long as you can make even a slight profit it can make sense to keep running. Problem is if everybody does it, prices get way too low. Also, I think Atima did not research his BPOs as much as he could have, because he was using borrowed money and it was not cost effective for him as he had to pay dividends starting day one.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.08.26 18:07:00 -
[11]
I'd advise against liquidation of assets, as stated before once capital production gets ramped up its more or less a none idle event and you'll always have these periods of instability.
Who could have guessed the unholy rage effect you know?
Hell not even a month ago prices were 18% higher... that's a pretty big swing in the capital market. Just ride this wave another month. |
Vasta Magna
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Posted - 2009.08.26 19:14:00 -
[12]
I'm a very minor shareholder but for my .02 ISK, ride it out. Operating losses are bad but liquidation can be nasty. Of course continued losses followed by having to liquidate anyway is even worse, but that's hardly a foregone conclusion.
My amateur crystal ball says many players who disappear for summer also put their ISK to work in manufacturing, leading to a double whammy of decreased demand and increased supply in capital intensive markets. The return of winter will bring long nights and fleet fights.
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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.08.27 00:25:00 -
[13]
In my opinion, we should hold on.
1. Even with the terrible prices reflected this month, we still *made* 150mil (while paying out 2.4bil of dividends).
2. The capital modules are realistically valued in my opinion (NPC pricing). The capital ships on the other hand, could easily fetch an additional 10% over NPC value, boosting the NAV (on liquidation) by almost 1.5b isk. While this still leaves the IPO essentially 1b behind where we started, the potential for recovery is there.
3. I see a few small time producers selling their carrier BPO/comp sets in the sell forums. Reduced supply should see prices lift.
4. Barring Nocx, mineral pricing has stabiliser considerably allowing part timers to actually work out the stupid low margins they're selling for right now and lift their prices hopefully.
I'd like to make the decision within the next 24 hours. Every day delayed is another day behind for the component build cycle. :(
I've yet to talk to Kazuo, keep missing his ninja logins. 
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:10:00 -
[14]
Ok, I'm happy to trust your judgement and allow the IPO to carry on for now. As you say, if you are to continue, you need to know ASAP.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:57:00 -
[15]
It doesn't help that we're on opposite sides of the globe. I'm going to be away from home for a couple of days, so I suggest we talk about this over the weekend.
---
34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 10:43:00 -
[16]
For my few shares, I would suggest continuing on for another month. Afterall, if you can make the inherited minimum 4% return then things are okay(ish - a small drop in NAV to achieve this).
As you have just started/are starting a "full carrier cycle" then this should be worked through.
As to what to do after this, maybe come back here in two weeks and let the investors know what is happening. Possibly include a full review of the BPO values too. That way you can get the investors opinions on whether things should begin to be wound up or continue.
Just a quick question - what happened to the reporting on components, capital modules/fighters and modules/fuel for the last couple of months?
Thanks.
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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.08.28 05:10:00 -
[17]
Righto, we'll go another cycle.
Will have the components cooking by DT today hopefully.
The inventory of fighters/cap mods/mods/fuel is no longer used because... all the stuff is on the market. :)
Substantially reduced numbers of personalised orders (as in... none in the last month) have meant there is no advantage to having idle isk in hangar unfortunately. :(
I'll do a half month report in this thread to update on progress/market situation.
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.08.28 09:20:00 -
[18]
If margins are so thin on 2 models at the moment, perhaps now would be an opportunity to get the poorer component/ship BPOs to higher levels while only building the better ones to help future profits along. My previous offer in that regard still stands.
-----
Originally by: kedoremos
EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.09.15 02:30:00 -
[19]
Profits have rebounded a small amount.
Will continue with the 2nd half build cycle.
Current projections show profitability of about 15.96mil for the month, after dividend payment..... seriously.
We'll see how the second half of the month pans out.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.09.15 02:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sugar Jugs
Hard month. Continually depressed carrier pricing, and flooding of market with severely underpriced Nidhoggur/Archon has seen an almost 0 profit month for the business. After dividend, the business lost 2.25b for the month (dividend of 2.4b).
Options are to operate business as usual, scale back production to focus on Chimera/Thanatos, halt production until all prices improve or liquidate. I welcome investor feedback in this decision.
Regards, Sugar
I stopped building carriers like 2 months ago.. I figured i would waste some time and get all of my carrier BPO's to ME:9 PE:1 for a "PERFECT" build. So basically if you think the market is deflated now wait until i get all my BPO's done researching... better liqidate now!
..
Check out our Website in game or out!
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Morton's Fork
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:57:00 -
[21]
Anyone looking to liquidate can sell me shares at the current NAV/share value, namely:
9.5mil
evemail me :)
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Murixo
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:08:00 -
[22]
Keep at it.
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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:18:00 -
[23]
If that is indeed the case loney, why would we liquidate now?
Now is the best time to be building carriers.
Perhaps when you return and the market is saturated would be a better time to liquidate?
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Sen Gyounen
Eve University
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Posted - 2009.10.08 21:30:00 -
[24]
Any September report upcoming? Not complaining, I got the dividend on time. But I'm curious about how things went, and more so about plans for the future. Also, how will the upcoming December patch affect your operation, if at all? Thanks
Sen Gyounen
"For all your days, prepare, and meet them ever alike;
When you are the anvil, bear - when the hammer, strike." |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.08 21:46:00 -
[25]
I've spoken with Sugar Jugs earlier today. Sales have been slow since the announcement of the sov changes that are coming in a couple of months with Dominion, so any dividend for September is likely to be very small.
A lot hinges on how popular the new titans and mothership weapon systems turn out to be, and people's willingness deploy them. In any case, it would be reasonable to expect sales to pick up once the new sov rules are finalised and people have decided what they're going to fight for, and the big battles start rolling again. However, if people can stomach the risk and decide to start deploying supercaps against capital fleets, there is the prospect of a distinct upturn in the market. More carriers would be needed to triage people's expensive supercaps, and accordingly more of them might end up being zapped by doomsday devices, picked off by the revamped ZOMGWTFBBQPWN* titan guns, or devoured by fighter bombers.
*A technical term.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
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