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unwanted mission salvager

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hauntingappiriton	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:10:00 - [1] For a while now I have hung out in caldari space listening to both sides about ninja salvager and I hear the salvager complain about care bears and care bears complain about ninja salvagers well the fact is in my eye scanning has been made super easy and ninja salvager need a nerf I suggest just as with stealing loot you get aggro. The reason I feel this is that I spend my time to get the standing I spend my time to do the mission and then a player can come in and openly defy me steal from my hard earned mission and I can't do any thing about it? I feel that wrong that players have to just watch it happen or shoot there wrecks when we could be shooting the thief in majority after two weeks of open chat I feel more people are for this idea then against it other wise thers no point in doing missions give me the option to fire on the thief that's what they are
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Metalcali on 26/08/2009 22:12:58 Then the ninja has his friends warp in, kill you, and salvage you ship while you float their watching in your pod. Also, he didn't steal from you, he salvaged a ship you turned into a wreck, there is a difference. edit: spelling --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:13:00 - [3] Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Generic reply, be careful what you wish for. Ninja salvagers generally like the tears as much as the isk. Blowing up your ship while stealing your loot would generate lots of tears. If you don't think it would happen (I can blow up any of those dirty salvagers!), consider that it won't be the same people or fits once they realize there is a new PVP game in town. Also, no to it anyway, for the reasons pasted above.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:17:00 - [4] If you have been listening to both sides, why do you need to make ANOTHER thread? Just STFU, you know the salvage is not yours untill it's in your bay and CCP wants it to be that way. THE SALVAGE IS NOT PART OF YOUR MISSION REWARD/LOOT. Geez...[insert insult here]
hauntingappiriton	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:25:00 - [5] Then I should be able to steal from any can you jettison its not in your cargo hold obviously don't want it hello jet can miners
OmegaDemon New Age Solutions	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:25:00 - [6] if its not considered stealing until its in your bay, then why is it stealing if they take the loot from the wrecks? I would think that if taking the loot from the wrecks is stealing then salvaging should be too! MAKE IT CRIMINAL TO SALVAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S WRECKS!!!!!!
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:31:00 - [7] Originally by: hauntingappiriton Then I should be able to steal from any can you jettison its not in your cargo hold obviously don't want it hello jet can miners And with this you have shown you don't know and purposely intend to be ignorant when it comes to salvaging. If someone in comes to your missions and takes the cargo from the wreck, you can attack them, but since the wreck it essentially "debris" it holds no value until you run a salvager to see if there was anything of value in the wreck at all. Should there be something of worth, it is then placed in your cargo bay, no one can steal it unless you let them at that point. You can take something from a miner, but that is taking it from their property, it isn't a pile of "junk" floating in space. Any further posts by you ignoring the mechanics of this skill will just prove most mission runners do not understand or wish to care about the feature. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:33:00 - [8] Edited by: BeanBagKing on 26/08/2009 22:35:47 Originally by: OmegaDemon ...MAKE IT CRIMINAL TO SALVAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S WRECKS!!!!!! This Originally by: BeanBagKing Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) and this... Originally by: Metalcali And with this you have shown you don't know and purposely intend to be ignorant when it comes to salvaging. If someone in comes to your missions and takes the cargo from the wreck, you can attack them, but since the wreck it essentially "debris" it holds no value until you run a salvager to see if there was anything of value in the wreck at all. Should there be something of worth, it is then placed in your cargo bay, no one can steal it unless you let them at that point. You can take something from a miner, but that is taking it from their property, it isn't a pile of "junk" floating in space. Any further posts by you ignoring the mechanics of this skill will just prove most mission runners do not understand or wish to care about the feature. Now please people, stop being ignorant and read up on the issue before replying it it. I keep repeating myself with these quotes because it's a solid, unchanging stance by the developers of the game. I don't need to argue against you, I just quote CCP on the issue, they have made up their minds and it's not changing. I'll never understand why people keep this up despite CCP's clear stance on the issue. Its not like its debated, or in some way not clear. CCP intends salvaging to be a profession. They have stated this, repeatedly, and it's not changing. live with it.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:37:00 - [9] Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 26/08/2009 22:44:37 Originally by: hauntingappiriton well the fact is in my eye scanning has been made super easy and ninja salvager need a nerf Who care about your eyes. In CCP's eyes it doesn't. Originally by: hauntingappiriton a player can come in and openly defy me Dude, get over yourself you're nobody Originally by: hauntingappiriton thers no point in doing missions Need directions back to elf and fairy land?
hauntingappiriton	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:49:00 - [10] Ok for the sake of putting the coloring book away if its floating rubbish what gives me the right to the loot but not the salvage? If its just a ship I killed why do you get aggro for taking the loot? Cause there's no owner ship that loots not in my cargo hold let's just give the players your whole mission while you at it sounds good the fact the kill is just rubbish to concord kinda makes me wonder why I can shoot you for taking the loot? Odd oh well that's why I lived in 0.0 so long but eeeh pvp players are bigger cry babies if I ever met one and I've met alot
Metalcali Dreams In Digital	Posted - 2009.08.26 22:57:00 - [11] Originally by: hauntingappiriton Ok for the sake of putting the coloring book away if its floating rubbish what gives me the right to the loot but not the salvage? If its just a ship I killed why do you get aggro for taking the loot? Cause there's no owner ship that loots not in my cargo hold let's just give the players your whole mission while you at it sounds good the fact the kill is just rubbish to concord kinda makes me wonder why I can shoot you for taking the loot? Odd oh well that's why I lived in 0.0 so long but eeeh pvp players are bigger cry babies if I ever met one and I've met alot The loot is the solid material that survived the encounter, and since you are in missions, you need specific loot for the objectives at times. Seeing as the wreck and cargo don't always separate themselves, from a semi realistic view, both wrecks and cargo are together. Some will argue that the loot isn't yours either, but being a game it is your spoils from the battle. Salvaging the ship is just another gamble at getting something out of the encounter. You have full ability to tractor them to you, but the salvager must fly within range, he can't tractor it to him, giving you another edge over the competition. Answer me this, how can you put value on a wreck if you don't know the specifics that wreck will give you, seeing as you can get a salvaged item that is worth only a few isk or something that can be very valuable or nothing at all? --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.08.26 23:01:00 - [12] Alright haunting, for the sake of your limited intellect, I'll repeat it one more time as others have already done.... The stuff in the wreak, the items, have value. As you are the one who killed the current pilot, NPC or otherwise, you are now the owner of said items. Taking them is stealing. The wreak itself has no value, it is floating garbage that is unimportant in the eyes of CONCORD (and more importantly, CCP). Or, to put it another way... Please note the part about "The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage". When you attempt to say "why can they steal wreaks but not items", you are comparing apples and oranges. Two different things in the eyes of CONCORD (the game code), the database, and the devs. You can continue to argue with this till your face turns blue. As for me, I'm done with this troll, everyone else can have fun beating their head against the brick wall that is your logic. Enjoy.
Intangible Mirage	Posted - 2009.08.26 23:42:00 - [13] Edited by: Intangible Mirage on 26/08/2009 23:42:12 Why not just make it so you can't scan out mission plexes and the mission hides your ship.

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