| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kraythe
   |
Posted - 2004.10.16 12:11:00 -
[1]
I am a player that played in beta and thought the game sucked. It is quite different now. It is actually fun. *kisses feet of programmer that put in autopilot* However, there are a few things that could be done to improve the newbie experience. Since Im essentially a newbie despite my betaness, I will list some of my own observations. Note that some of them could indicate a request of a feature that is there. In this case, it is certainly not well documented enough.
1a) Missions: There should be a few more tutorial missions. I would like it if the tutor would give out one of each kind of mission (courier, kill, etc). The player can run these missions to learn the lay of the land.
1b) Missions: You should be able to see the route, reward and type of mission before risking dropping your faction. There is nothign more annoying than accepting a mission to find that the mission needs 17 jumps for 1k isk.
2a) GUI: There should be tutorials on how to use all elements of the gui. Each window should have a context menu that allows you to run and stop the tutorial for the window. In this manner the game can teach you how to use people and places and so on.
2b) GUI: There should be a tutorial on things like stacking windows, minimizing and maximizing.
2c) GUI: There should be a tutorial covering the station view. How to use it and so on. The current one arely glosses over it.
2d) GUI: Market window needs an in-depth tutorial.
2e) GUI: Personal text color. In text windows you should be able to set the color of your text so that you can more easily see your text from anothers. I would love it if my text was in bright yellow while others are in white.
3a) Combat: Initial tutorial is so dull. Instead you should have some really cheap activatable medium modules that can go in the newb ship and they are taught how to operate modules while a silly pirate circles them. When they blow up this pirate they should get something like 10 feldspar or something.
4a) Trade: Trade tutorial is essential. How to find a deal, how to pick up cargo, etc
5a) Agent missions: Tutorial for how to run a mission, this should include the agent yelling at you to put the cargo in your ship.
6a) Library: In-Game full database of all items. It would be great to be able to search a library in game, call it GalacticNet or something. In that you would be able to find information on all corporations, modules, items and so on. The database would be acessible in deep space. Items that have not been discovered wouldnt be in the database until some X number of people possess them. This makes sure to not hurt the explorers.
7a) What to do: Most commonly on the newb channel people ask what is there to do in the game. That is indicative of a failure in the tutorial system. We need to communicate possiblities to the user.
8a) Random attacks in even 1.0 space by gate camping or base camping NPCs. These NPCs would be really weak and designed just to give a newb that extra thrill. Some might be a tad stronger but not really strong. The idea is that they would jump a newb ship but hardly ever jump anythng purchased. They would just spice it up a bit when hauling mission goods.
Well, those are my thoughts. Thanks for listening.
-- Kraythe |
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 12:11:00 -
[2]
I am a player that played in beta and thought the game sucked. It is quite different now. It is actually fun. *kisses feet of programmer that put in autopilot* However, there are a few things that could be done to improve the newbie experience. Since Im essentially a newbie despite my betaness, I will list some of my own observations. Note that some of them could indicate a request of a feature that is there. In this case, it is certainly not well documented enough.
1a) Missions: There should be a few more tutorial missions. I would like it if the tutor would give out one of each kind of mission (courier, kill, etc). The player can run these missions to learn the lay of the land.
1b) Missions: You should be able to see the route, reward and type of mission before risking dropping your faction. There is nothign more annoying than accepting a mission to find that the mission needs 17 jumps for 1k isk.
2a) GUI: There should be tutorials on how to use all elements of the gui. Each window should have a context menu that allows you to run and stop the tutorial for the window. In this manner the game can teach you how to use people and places and so on.
2b) GUI: There should be a tutorial on things like stacking windows, minimizing and maximizing.
2c) GUI: There should be a tutorial covering the station view. How to use it and so on. The current one arely glosses over it.
2d) GUI: Market window needs an in-depth tutorial.
2e) GUI: Personal text color. In text windows you should be able to set the color of your text so that you can more easily see your text from anothers. I would love it if my text was in bright yellow while others are in white.
3a) Combat: Initial tutorial is so dull. Instead you should have some really cheap activatable medium modules that can go in the newb ship and they are taught how to operate modules while a silly pirate circles them. When they blow up this pirate they should get something like 10 feldspar or something.
4a) Trade: Trade tutorial is essential. How to find a deal, how to pick up cargo, etc
5a) Agent missions: Tutorial for how to run a mission, this should include the agent yelling at you to put the cargo in your ship.
6a) Library: In-Game full database of all items. It would be great to be able to search a library in game, call it GalacticNet or something. In that you would be able to find information on all corporations, modules, items and so on. The database would be acessible in deep space. Items that have not been discovered wouldnt be in the database until some X number of people possess them. This makes sure to not hurt the explorers.
7a) What to do: Most commonly on the newb channel people ask what is there to do in the game. That is indicative of a failure in the tutorial system. We need to communicate possiblities to the user.
8a) Random attacks in even 1.0 space by gate camping or base camping NPCs. These NPCs would be really weak and designed just to give a newb that extra thrill. Some might be a tad stronger but not really strong. The idea is that they would jump a newb ship but hardly ever jump anythng purchased. They would just spice it up a bit when hauling mission goods.
Well, those are my thoughts. Thanks for listening.
-- Kraythe |
Shevar
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 12:41:00 -
[3]
1b) Missions: You should be able to see the route, reward and type of mission before risking dropping your faction. There is nothign more annoying than accepting a mission to find that the mission needs 17 jumps for 1k isk.
Open your journal and look at the offered mission, it lists where you gotta go, what you gotta kill and how much isk you get and what the bonus reward is.
4a) Trade: Trade tutorial is essential. How to find a deal, how to pick up cargo, etc
NPC trading is crap (IMHO luckely) so no need to have a tutorial for that. Trade in eve is about player trade, buying modules/offices/labslots cheap from people who want to sell them quickly and selling them to people who want stuff NOW and are willing to pay for it. It's a bit hard to explain exactly why people are willing to pay a certain ammount of isk since it's mainly based on the size of the buyers wallets, the rarity of the item and what others have payed for the item in the past.
6a) Library: In-Game full database of all items. It would be great to be able to search a library in game, call it GalacticNet or something. In that you would be able to find information on all corporations, modules, items and so on. The database would be acessible in deep space. Items that have not been discovered wouldnt be in the database until some X number of people possess them. This makes sure to not hurt the explorers.
This is in shiva, but it has everything in it (including lots of unreleased stuff). Also there are sites like eve-db.com and eve-i.com object explorer.
8a) Random attacks in even 1.0 space by gate camping or base camping NPCs. These NPCs would be really weak and designed just to give a newb that extra thrill. Some might be a tad stronger but not really strong. The idea is that they would jump a newb ship but hardly ever jump anythng purchased. They would just spice it up a bit when hauling mission goods.
Goto a .8 system (though they dont have rats at the gates they do have them in belts).
--------
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
|
Shevar
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 12:41:00 -
[4]
1b) Missions: You should be able to see the route, reward and type of mission before risking dropping your faction. There is nothign more annoying than accepting a mission to find that the mission needs 17 jumps for 1k isk.
Open your journal and look at the offered mission, it lists where you gotta go, what you gotta kill and how much isk you get and what the bonus reward is.
4a) Trade: Trade tutorial is essential. How to find a deal, how to pick up cargo, etc
NPC trading is crap (IMHO luckely) so no need to have a tutorial for that. Trade in eve is about player trade, buying modules/offices/labslots cheap from people who want to sell them quickly and selling them to people who want stuff NOW and are willing to pay for it. It's a bit hard to explain exactly why people are willing to pay a certain ammount of isk since it's mainly based on the size of the buyers wallets, the rarity of the item and what others have payed for the item in the past.
6a) Library: In-Game full database of all items. It would be great to be able to search a library in game, call it GalacticNet or something. In that you would be able to find information on all corporations, modules, items and so on. The database would be acessible in deep space. Items that have not been discovered wouldnt be in the database until some X number of people possess them. This makes sure to not hurt the explorers.
This is in shiva, but it has everything in it (including lots of unreleased stuff). Also there are sites like eve-db.com and eve-i.com object explorer.
8a) Random attacks in even 1.0 space by gate camping or base camping NPCs. These NPCs would be really weak and designed just to give a newb that extra thrill. Some might be a tad stronger but not really strong. The idea is that they would jump a newb ship but hardly ever jump anythng purchased. They would just spice it up a bit when hauling mission goods.
Goto a .8 system (though they dont have rats at the gates they do have them in belts).
--------
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
|
Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 13:28:00 -
[5]
Now that we're on the topic: does anyone know whatever happened to the adopt-a-newbie programme? Is it still going or did it meet its (quiet) end?
Though I didn't participate it seemed like a good idea at the time. Gives new players an opportunity to get some hands-on experience, they have someone to direct their questions to (which is less of a hurdle than having to ask on the overly crowded help channel), it gives them an option to explore PC corp life if they so choose, etc.
Granted, malevolent souls no doubt abused the system to recruit mining slaves (which is certainly NOT a good way get new players interested in eve) but all in all the initiative seemed solid.
Perhaps it should be resurrected or promoted a bit again?
|
Trell Artela
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 13:28:00 -
[6]
Now that we're on the topic: does anyone know whatever happened to the adopt-a-newbie programme? Is it still going or did it meet its (quiet) end?
Though I didn't participate it seemed like a good idea at the time. Gives new players an opportunity to get some hands-on experience, they have someone to direct their questions to (which is less of a hurdle than having to ask on the overly crowded help channel), it gives them an option to explore PC corp life if they so choose, etc.
Granted, malevolent souls no doubt abused the system to recruit mining slaves (which is certainly NOT a good way get new players interested in eve) but all in all the initiative seemed solid.
Perhaps it should be resurrected or promoted a bit again?
|
Xavier Arron
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 17:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:44:59
Kraythe,
Some really good suggestions. EVE does have a rather steep learning curve and this isn't helped any by the lack of a detailed manual or proper tutorials.
I think many of the older players like myself forget how confusing and sometimes unintuitive the game mechanics and the interface can be for new players to the game.
All good constructive comments CCP should consider.
|
Xavier Arron
|
Posted - 2004.10.16 17:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:44:59
Kraythe,
Some really good suggestions. EVE does have a rather steep learning curve and this isn't helped any by the lack of a detailed manual or proper tutorials.
I think many of the older players like myself forget how confusing and sometimes unintuitive the game mechanics and the interface can be for new players to the game.
All good constructive comments CCP should consider.
|
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 11:37:00 -
[9]
The game is good, dont get me wrong. However, even where I indicated things that are already in the game, it shows an issue, one of documentation or tutorial.
-- Kraythe |
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 11:37:00 -
[10]
The game is good, dont get me wrong. However, even where I indicated things that are already in the game, it shows an issue, one of documentation or tutorial.
-- Kraythe |
|
|
Jason Antarres
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 12:43:00 -
[11]
I think the game needs quicker asteroid spawns in starting systems, more asteroid fields in starting systems, and restricted mining in starting systems only for school members.
I also feel that the Trade and economy in starting systems should be protected from people who manipulate pricing and trade amounts in these systems. Many of the newbie starting areas will only allow sales of Trit in quantities in the thousands. This is absurd as newbies more than anyone else needs ISK as fast as possible to upgrade to Miner I'a and get out of the starter ship. Then to see some needed skills priced at 10X normal cost, because some one bought them all up and is reselling them is disheartening to many.
Clean up the starting systems trade and give more ore to get new people going faster.
|
Jason Antarres
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 12:43:00 -
[12]
I think the game needs quicker asteroid spawns in starting systems, more asteroid fields in starting systems, and restricted mining in starting systems only for school members.
I also feel that the Trade and economy in starting systems should be protected from people who manipulate pricing and trade amounts in these systems. Many of the newbie starting areas will only allow sales of Trit in quantities in the thousands. This is absurd as newbies more than anyone else needs ISK as fast as possible to upgrade to Miner I'a and get out of the starter ship. Then to see some needed skills priced at 10X normal cost, because some one bought them all up and is reselling them is disheartening to many.
Clean up the starting systems trade and give more ore to get new people going faster.
|
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 19:36:00 -
[13]
I think the problem isnt the trade an econmy but server reset exploits.
-- Kraythe |
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 19:36:00 -
[14]
I think the problem isnt the trade an econmy but server reset exploits.
-- Kraythe |
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 20:21:00 -
[15]
1) I dunno, there is some left over things to learn, but I don't find it to be that big of a deal. though I seem to be particularly good at figuring out the way the game works
1b) think the Shiva mission interface does what you want.
2) well I for one thought most of that stuff was pretty intuitive and self explanatory. but maybe not. the market is very complicated... but.. :shrug:
4) ... more "is this not already obvious"? as far as I can see the parts that aren't obvious, aren't really something you could, (or IMO, should) tutorialize.
7... this game is relatively open.... you have to chose what to do. it doesnt tell you everything and all the path lined out for you.
8) they call it .8 space. the rats there are mostly in either newb ships, or similarly sucky ships. a single medium drone could take them out, as far as I've seen. butIMO there DOES need to be a place where super-noobs can mine without interruption.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 20:21:00 -
[16]
1) I dunno, there is some left over things to learn, but I don't find it to be that big of a deal. though I seem to be particularly good at figuring out the way the game works
1b) think the Shiva mission interface does what you want.
2) well I for one thought most of that stuff was pretty intuitive and self explanatory. but maybe not. the market is very complicated... but.. :shrug:
4) ... more "is this not already obvious"? as far as I can see the parts that aren't obvious, aren't really something you could, (or IMO, should) tutorialize.
7... this game is relatively open.... you have to chose what to do. it doesnt tell you everything and all the path lined out for you.
8) they call it .8 space. the rats there are mostly in either newb ships, or similarly sucky ships. a single medium drone could take them out, as far as I've seen. butIMO there DOES need to be a place where super-noobs can mine without interruption.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 20:49:00 -
[17]
 Originally by: Kraythe
I think the problem isnt the trade an econmy but server reset exploits.
Don't exist anymore.
Please check your facts before shouting exploit.
The market is player driven, new players make their isk selling to other players, not to NPC's. It's called interaction, and yes, It's forced to a certain degree.
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 20:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kraythe
I think the problem isnt the trade an econmy but server reset exploits.
Don't exist anymore.
Please check your facts before shouting exploit.
The market is player driven, new players make their isk selling to other players, not to NPC's. It's called interaction, and yes, It's forced to a certain degree.
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 22:51:00 -
[19]
Well there may be answers to these questions but what Im saying is if you see it asked 40 times an hour in rookie chat, there should be some other way of getting out the info.
Now I understand those who have played a while disdain that people shouldnt know these things but the fact is that newbies dont know anything. Vetrans may feel superior abotu it but it doesnt help introducing new players.
-- Kraythe |
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 22:51:00 -
[20]
Well there may be answers to these questions but what Im saying is if you see it asked 40 times an hour in rookie chat, there should be some other way of getting out the info.
Now I understand those who have played a while disdain that people shouldnt know these things but the fact is that newbies dont know anything. Vetrans may feel superior abotu it but it doesnt help introducing new players.
-- Kraythe |
|
|
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 23:06:00 -
[21]
Exactly, hence: total removal of npc demand and useless trade goods.
What isn't there can't confuse new players.
Anywaym, I do agree that mroe documentation would make the startup phase more agreeable.
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.10.17 23:06:00 -
[22]
Exactly, hence: total removal of npc demand and useless trade goods.
What isn't there can't confuse new players.
Anywaym, I do agree that mroe documentation would make the startup phase more agreeable.
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
Skellibjalla
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 11:45:00 -
[23]
Thank you for the input. The new player experience will be revamped sooner than later and fyi, this thread has been bookmarked for when we kickstart the NPE process 
|
Skellibjalla
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 11:45:00 -
[24]
Thank you for the input. The new player experience will be revamped sooner than later and fyi, this thread has been bookmarked for when we kickstart the NPE process
|
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Skellibjalla
Edited by: Skellibjalla on 18/10/2004 11:48:38
Thank you for the input. The new player experience will be revamped sooner than later and fyi, this thread has been bookmarked for when we kickstart the NPE process
OOOOH Ive been bookmarked. Im honored. 
Thanks for listening.
-- Kraythe |
Kraythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Skellibjalla
Edited by: Skellibjalla on 18/10/2004 11:48:38
Thank you for the input. The new player experience will be revamped sooner than later and fyi, this thread has been bookmarked for when we kickstart the NPE process
OOOOH Ive been bookmarked. Im honored.
Thanks for listening.
-- Kraythe |
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:56:00 -
[27]
There are so many little details that could vastly improve life for new players. The one that always gets me is how many new players don't realise they can work for any agent they have high enough standing for, not just the one they are referred to. I'm sure I remember reading a thread very recently from a newbie saying he was going to quit because the agent he was referred to sucked.
Also, considering that the initial missions are supposed to be a kind of tutorial, how come the training for combat is lock then click weapon ? Now I appreciate there is a lot to learn, and you don't want to bombard with information, but isn't that a bit too simplistic ?
|
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:56:00 -
[28]
There are so many little details that could vastly improve life for new players. The one that always gets me is how many new players don't realise they can work for any agent they have high enough standing for, not just the one they are referred to. I'm sure I remember reading a thread very recently from a newbie saying he was going to quit because the agent he was referred to sucked.
Also, considering that the initial missions are supposed to be a kind of tutorial, how come the training for combat is lock then click weapon ? Now I appreciate there is a lot to learn, and you don't want to bombard with information, but isn't that a bit too simplistic ?
|
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Toran Mehtar on 18/10/2004 14:01:17
/me thinks training on how to avoid double posting would help too.
|
Toran Mehtar
|
Posted - 2004.10.18 13:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Toran Mehtar on 18/10/2004 14:01:17
/me thinks training on how to avoid double posting would help too.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |