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Waz Weh
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Posted - 2009.08.30 15:13:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I think anyone who has played in 0.0 for any length of time understands that wars are won and lost these days based on the amount of dreadnoughts that can be projected at a given spot.
I think I understand in principle the idea that you either have more dreads than the enemy does or you die. How you deliver the dreads (drop vs counterdrop vs counterdrop, etc) is also important.
I also understand in principle the idea that if your POS is manned with a POS gunner and it is designed to kill capitals, you may kill a few, but I don't think you're going to hold off an entire force. Correct?
So the question that I have is this: What unorthodox ways, if any, are there of killing dreads? I know the commonly accepted knowledge is you either have the dreads or you don't, but assuming you can't field that many for whatever reason, do you have any other options? ISK is not a factor, but # of active, dread-capable pilots is. Could you **** a POS out with hardeners and neut batteries? Have a stealth bomber force? Do something interesting with a Curse fleet or oddly fit T3 cruisers?
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Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.30 19:03:00 -
[2]
Well, if your alliance doesn't have as many dreads as your enemy, I think the best course of action is to team up with other alliances that have the same enemy in common.
Other than that, there are various forms of trickery. The principle of guerrilla warfare is to fight only when you can win, and avoid the enemy at other times. So, bug out when the enemy outnumbers you, but try to bait them into capital fights at odd hours on weekdays when they can't bring very many. Maybe you can wear them down.
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.30 20:21:00 -
[3]
Sniper dreads.
Most dreads are incapable of engaging at 160km+ so make sure you drop yours at that distance with approapriate fits.
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HoldMeAfter
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Posted - 2009.08.31 02:21:00 -
[4]
Spam POS
Stront timing
Spies
Alarm Clock Ops
Take the initiative
Get more members/allies
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Princess Morticia
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Posted - 2009.08.31 04:43:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Sniper dreads.
Most dreads are incapable of engaging at 160km+ so make sure you drop yours at that distance with approapriate fits.
I think pretty much this. Get them when they are fitted short range and you are long range.
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Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.31 07:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Princess Morticia
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Sniper dreads.
Most dreads are incapable of engaging at 160km+ so make sure you drop yours at that distance with approapriate fits.
I think pretty much this. Get them when they are fitted short range and you are long range.
And then they drop a reinforcement short range cap fleet on your sniper dreads and the advantage is theirs again.
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Waz Weh
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Posted - 2009.08.31 14:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
Originally by: Princess Morticia
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Sniper dreads.
Most dreads are incapable of engaging at 160km+ so make sure you drop yours at that distance with approapriate fits.
I think pretty much this. Get them when they are fitted short range and you are long range.
And then they drop a reinforcement short range cap fleet on your sniper dreads and the advantage is theirs again.
You hit the nail on the head. I'm not looking for an "I win" button persay, i'm looking for something that changes the conversation. It can be anything from tight groups of logistics+neut ships+whatever, or SBs, etc. But right now it seems like capital strategy is very stagnant. I realize a DD or double DD will win the day against anything BS or smaller, but being able to do innovative things is what i'm after.
With a capital shredding POS, how many can I expect to kill assuming POS gunners are max skilled and hardeners are online?
What are some effective counters to sniping dreads?
If you were going to build a team to kill "one" dread, but you couldn't bring any caps (other than MAYBE a carrier), how would you do it?
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.31 17:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Waz Weh
With a capital shredding POS, how many can I expect to kill assuming POS gunners are max skilled and hardeners are online?
If all your guns are manned and you don't have a support fleet you can kill one, maybe two.
Quote:
What are some effective counters to sniping dreads?
More dreads.
Quote:
If you were going to build a team to kill "one" dread, but you couldn't bring any caps (other than MAYBE a carrier), how would you do it?
Slack handful of close range BS with at least one dedicated neut ship. May run into problems vs a Moros but nothing a bit of RR won't be able to deal with.
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Felix Jugo
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:01:00 -
[9]
No love for the stealth bomber? (or rather a group of them, operating as guerrillas)
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Felix Jugo
No love for the stealth bomber? (or rather a group of them, operating as guerrillas)
No.
Stealth bombers have their roles and they can be amazing if used well, but this is not one of them. Drones, support etc. would rip through your bombers in an instant.
RR BS as Lark suggested is good.
_________________________
HELLO! I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:00:00 -
[11]
Close range gank BS's with lots of RR and neuts. (lots of torp ravens would be wicked for that tbh)
i did toy with an idea of stealth bombers launching many bombs at the dreads in many small waves (so to not pop own bombs) and try and pop many dreads at once, but from what people tell me that does not work 
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Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE
if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
God GirlFriend
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:45:00 -
[12]
A definite superiority on support can win a fight. If you support is superior enough to wash away the dreads support you will be gifted with a lot of cheap dread kills. A pack of 100 snipers can be NASTY to a dread group. You very likely can kill more isk than loose with 100 snuiper BS against 100 normal dreads with no support.
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:14:00 -
[13]
This is where the FRIGATE SWARM tactic comes to mind.
Except instead of frigates against battleships its battleships against dreads. Get sniper battleships, warp in at range and demolish their support fleet. You will have half the signature radius of a dreadnoughts guns, so if you just keep moving and sniping their support the dreads will be unable to touch you. This of course is why any competent capital fleet will have carriers with the support fleet to remote rep them, and there you have the counter to overwhelming battleship support, and the circle of life is complete.
Dreads -> Battleships -> Carriers -> More Dreads
On another topic, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Dynast
Eve Defence Force
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Spaztick
This is where the FRIGATE SWARM tactic comes to mind.
Except instead of frigates against battleships its battleships against dreads. Get sniper battleships, warp in at range and demolish their support fleet. You will have half the signature radius of a dreadnoughts guns, so if you just keep moving and sniping their support the dreads will be unable to touch you. This of course is why any competent capital fleet will have carriers with the support fleet to remote rep them, and there you have the counter to overwhelming battleship support, and the circle of life is complete.
Dreads -> Battleships -> Carriers -> More Dreads
That wouldn't be so bad, but I'd suggest that the actual progression is Battleships -> DD.
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Shitzen Giggles
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Posted - 2009.09.02 00:54:00 -
[15]
Look for a small thermal exhaust port. It should be about 2 meters wide just smaller than a Womp-Rat. Fire a torpedo down that move on to the next 
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Killgallon
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Posted - 2009.09.04 13:13:00 -
[16]
id just love to see a fleet of 500+ n00bs rock up in frigates and see what they could do, ultimate cannon fodder!
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Eli Porter
Amarr
Altruism.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:57:00 -
[17]
I know Ev0ke was able to neutralize NC's capital superiority by capturing and cyno-jamming a system(1-3HWZ) on the outskirts of cloud ring, nearby an NPC sov system(A-SJ8X) with a station they could base out of. Basically they fortified their cynojammer pos at 1-3 so much with ECM's, Turrets, and Warp disruption batteries NC was forced to bring in sniper BS's to kill their Cynojammer. Ev0ke did a good job at preparing for this and pretty much butchered a 200 man NC fleet as they jumped in. The fact that they were basing out of a station 1 jump away also helped as they jumped back into the fight once they died, helping their numerical disadvantage immensely.
Of course capturing and cyno-jamming an enemy system is no easy task, and ev0ke had the advantage of capturing that system from a weaker alliance before MH "took over" cloud ring.
http://killboard.ev0ke.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=45776
1-3 still stands AFAIK.
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Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:01:00 -
[18]
Theres no "true" counter for dreads apart from more dreads ... its one of the bugs with the end game atm.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Eli Porter
Amarr
Altruism.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grut
Theres no "true" counter for dreads apart from more dreads ... its one of the bugs with the end game atm.
Yes, but if you kill enough of their non-caps, their economical backbone will not be as strong when they DO lose their dreads, and will discourage them from deploying dreads in the future. As for killing dreads, having powerful friends is the way to go.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.07 05:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Suas
Originally by: Felix Jugo
No love for the stealth bomber? (or rather a group of them, operating as guerrillas)
No.
Stealth bombers have their roles and they can be amazing if used well, but this is not one of them. Drones, support etc. would rip through your bombers in an instant.
RR BS as Lark suggested is good.
Depends on the bomber pilots. Smart SB pilots don't come within 50km of the target and are carefull to what's targeting them - that and the mse t2 they have fitted.
---
I smack just for myself.
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Grukar
Amarr
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
Emergence.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:51:00 -
[21]
With the upcoming change to DDs, I'd imagine Titans would be able to knock out a Dred fairly quickly. Then again, if you can field a Titan, you can probably field a few Dreds..
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Eagle Tarquinas
Gallente
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
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Posted - 2009.09.08 02:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Eagle Tarquinas on 08/09/2009 02:32:11
Approximately 30 titans will decimate a dreadnought fleet. Good luck with that. Of course, thats assuming damage isnt changed in dominion.
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Eli Porter
Amarr
Altruism.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.08 09:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Eagle Tarquinas
Edited by: Eagle Tarquinas on 08/09/2009 02:32:11
Approximately 30 titans will decimate a dreadnought fleet. Good luck with that. Of course, thats assuming damage isnt changed in dominion.
Rumor mill has it that the DD will be changed into a single target weapon. So it's safe to assume the damage a Titan could deliver to a single target would be immense.
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