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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.09.01 09:14:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: Suas Damage. It's the best inty dogfighter and you know it.
Who gives a **** about inty dogfighting. If I want to kill interceptors, I'll bring an AF, or just drop a few dozen Warrior IIs on them. The interceptor's primary job is tackling, and the Taranis is mediocre at best in that role.
That would be the job of the tackling inty. All the combat inties are very mediocre at that role, since their main purpose is the destruction of other inties and frigates.
In other words, you may drop the shovel anytime now.
And what can we conclude from this? That the "combat" inties are a poor choice, and you should either fly a tackle inty or a good anti-interceptor ship (AF or destroyer). The fact that killing other frigates is their intended purpose does not make them good at it, or a good choice of ship in general. ==========
Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.01 10:01:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/09/2009 10:01:35
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
And what can we conclude from this? That the "combat" inties are a poor choice, and you should either fly a tackle inty or a good anti-interceptor ship (AF or destroyer). The fact that killing other frigates is their intended purpose does not make them good at it, or a good choice of ship in general.
Combat inties work way better, for a simple reason: they can actually tackle the target instead of watching it run away. They are simply the best ship choice for that role.
AFs and destroyes work for screening purposes, but not to pursue the targets, they lack the speed and / or maneuverability, as well as the warp speed.
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.01 10:52:00 -
[63]
Destroyers do a better job of driving off interceptors then a combat inty will for a fraction of the price, but you're less likely to get a kill. I'd say 2/3rds of them manage to bugger off in time from my arty-thrasher.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.01 11:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Destroyers do a better job of driving off interceptors then a combat inty will for a fraction of the price, but you're less likely to get a kill. I'd say 2/3rds of them manage to bugger off in time from my arty-thrasher.
Exactly, they work for screening, but not for actually killing them. You only ever get kills on those that are stupid enough to get and stay in range in the first place.
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Beltantis Torrence
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: Suas Damage. It's the best inty dogfighter and you know it.
Who gives a **** about inty dogfighting. If I want to kill interceptors, I'll bring an AF, or just drop a few dozen Warrior IIs on them. The interceptor's primary job is tackling, and the Taranis is mediocre at best in that role.
And yet, apparently contrary to all reason, there's plenty and plenty of taranis kills on any killboard you'll ever look at.
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Gal Ore
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
And yet, apparently contrary to all reason, there's plenty and plenty of taranis kills on any killboard you'll ever look at.
Hint to the clueless: There's also plenty of Taranis losses. Which proves that they only kill noobs with failfits, while get killed by true pvpers.
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kovorix My point is that in EVE pvp, the way you are able to manipulate the enemy is often far more important than the pure efficiency of your ship and fit. There are many situations, like in larger gangs, when you want everybody to maximize their potential, but for solo and small gangs I think it is far more important to consider how you can defeat your opponent mentally, because honestly, its often easy to do in this game.
Stop being so reasonable. Everything is black and white and Merin is always right. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:08:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin And here is the problem with this strategy: the only way you can possibly win is if the other guy screws up. If you run into a skilled opponent, your poor choice of ship means you just die. Against competent opponents, you are more likely to find yourself in one of two scenarios:
1) The enemy gang simply blows you away. Good luck killing anything in a blaster Ferox when the other guy brings in a couple friends in Armageddons. And it doesn't even have to be that extreme, flying bad ships like you do, an opponent with superior numbers really doesn't have to do any more than orbit at optimal and turn on their guns to kill you.
Superior forces always kill you, regardless of optimal choice fit. If you run into a skilled opponent (or even better, a Merin-like opponent) they tend to assume because you are flying a 'fail-fit' you are also a 'fail-pvper' and then you pwn them.
Originally by: Sera Ryskin 2) The enemy gang, since they aren't forced to get in close with blasters, simply disengages when they realize you aren't an easy target. Good luck surviving against a HAC/recon gang in any of those ships, at absolute best, you might force them to MWD away and warp off.
I'm all for theoretical reasoning. However, in practice it rarely works this way. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin And what can we conclude from this? That the "combat" inties are a poor choice, and you should either fly a tackle inty or a good anti-interceptor ship (AF or destroyer). The fact that killing other frigates is their intended purpose does not make them good at it, or a good choice of ship in general.
I love combat inties and I believe they are an excellent choice because of their 'broad engagement range' and great tactical flexibilty. In a combat inty you can perform the following roles:
- scout - tackling support - inty killer - frigate killer - cruiser and up support dps
A combat inty allows me to engage and kill solo: covops, bombers, frigates, EA frigates, destroyers (depends), interdictors (depends), AF's (depends), inties, cruisers (depends), HACs (depends), Recons (depends).
There is no single ship that flexibel and diverse and therefore shines when used solo. They are not as specialized as the other ships, you give some ability to fullfill a role in exchange for being able to fullfill many roles simultaneously. If I need a specialized tackler in fleet, give me a tackling inty, but if you are roaming or are without a balanced fleet, combat inties rule. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Saint VII
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Omara Otawan lasers > hybrids > missiles > foam bats > projectiles.
Then why is it so fashionable for Amarr to equip projectiles on their frigs? Is it only the small weapons where projectiles are liked?
No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting. |
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Gal Ore
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
And yet, apparently contrary to all reason, there's plenty and plenty of taranis kills on any killboard you'll ever look at.
Hint to the clueless: There's also plenty of Taranis losses. Which proves that they only kill noobs with failfits, while get killed by true pvpers.
You are incompetent.
Stop posting. _________________________
HELLO! I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
Raimo
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:37:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Raimo on 01/09/2009 15:38:22
Originally by: Gal Ore
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
And yet, apparently contrary to all reason, there's plenty and plenty of taranis kills on any killboard you'll ever look at.
Hint to the clueless: There's also plenty of Taranis losses. Which proves that they only kill noobs with failfits, while get killed by true pvpers.
Gal Ore not Merin's alt? You have a whole circle of "friends" whose catchphrase is "hint to the cluless" then? (pretty unique to Ryskins AFAIK) LMAO troll ---
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Cerulea
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:52:00 -
[73]
While majority of my solo pvp experience comes from the test server, flying an armageddon then watching a mega mwd from 20km away then turn off the mwd and orbit at 1000m and dying while my mega pulse not being able to hit it(well...more like half of them didn't hit), being it had scam and web, there was nothing i could do, pulse might have the range advantage, but the tracking and dps difference is very notable. In the end its mostly about who gets the better battlefield placement.
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FOl2TY8
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:21:00 -
[74]
Blasters may be "fail PVP" but I have fun using them and I have a LOT of fun flying Taranis's. Sure if I go up against a dedicated Eve PVP'er I will lose but I could care less. They are still fun to fly and I get kills in them. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:23:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Gal Ore You see, Merin doesn't offer advice to others if he hasn't confirmed its usefulness personally. This includes regularly putting to the test even the most firmly held beliefs. Who knows, maybe there is something that was overlooked? Maybe the "current metagame" has changed?
In this case, Merin's opinion has been clearly confirmed.
Thank you for showing Merin's thoroughness and sincerity to the community.
Merin doesn't need to speak of Merin in the 3rd person quite so much.
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Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:45:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
And here is the problem with this strategy: the only way you can possibly win is if the other guy screws up. If you run into a skilled opponent, your poor choice of ship means you just die. Against competent opponents, you are more likely to find yourself in one of two scenarios:
1) The enemy gang simply blows you away. Good luck killing anything in a blaster Ferox when the other guy brings in a couple friends in Armageddons. And it doesn't even have to be that extreme, flying bad ships like you do, an opponent with superior numbers really doesn't have to do any more than orbit at optimal and turn on their guns to kill you.
2) The enemy gang, since they aren't forced to get in close with blasters, simply disengages when they realize you aren't an easy target. Good luck surviving against a HAC/recon gang in any of those ships, at absolute best, you might force them to MWD away and warp off.
This second part, more than the damage numbers, is why blasters are terrible in PvP. By flying a blaster ship, you are 100% committed to the fight, there is no escape from deep in web/scram range if things start to go badly. On the other hand, laser ships are easily able to disengage and escape, since they are staying on the very edge of warp disruptor range, and safely away from webs and scrams that might remove their mobility.
Sure, the bigger the ship, the slower you are and the more likely you are to be at a disadvantage in speed, but that just means the second factor becomes more important: range. Blasters don't really help you if your target is 20km away and refusing to get in close.
Ryskin,
Really? Are you seriously using this as some kind of argument? Your brilliance is astounding.
1. A larger gang with a couple of Armageddons will beat a solo BC? NO WAI! 2. A HAC gang with long range guns will beat a solo BC with blasters? NO WAI! 3. Blasters dont work well at long range? NO WAI!
In fact, all pvp in EVE is situational. I promise you that every person in this thread has been in a scrap at one time or another and said "Damn, I wish I had lasors/blasters/projectiles/missles instead." A lot of the fun in EVE is flying ships that arent the pinnacle of tech or are 'off-fit' for a certain situation, and winning with them. Unless of course you are a chump and just want to out-blob/out-tech (or both) every enemy you face.
Really just stop. You presume that one always dictates range in an engagement - simply you dont. Hybrids/Rails/Lasors/Projectiles all have their strengths. Your massive overgeneralizations like "Blasterships are terrible in pvp" are both laughable and stale. Your assumptions are false.
However, please let me go get a pen so I can write down more of your brilliant and insightful statements like "A gang with superior numbers, a couple of Armageddons, or both will blow away a solo Ferox!" NO FRACKING WAI!
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Mera Lehbo
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:46:00 -
[77]
whoa lookit all that DPS you can get in EFT blasters sure are great!
*gets kited outside web range*
okay maybe they suck solo but they'd be great as DPS support in a group!
*primary target dies before you even get in range* |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:50:00 -
[78]
Edited by: adriaans on 01/09/2009 17:53:24 Edited by: adriaans on 01/09/2009 17:51:33 sera ryskin:
-how exactly does say a geddon point a blaster ship at 45km while shooting schorch... ohh right, it doesn't... -exactly how does any amarr BS beat a proper fitted hyperion? thats right, they don't... because 1: how is the amarr BS keeping range when it's plated to hell... 2: the hyperion is tanking the lasers just fine 3: while tanking the lasers shooting its way through the buffer of the amarr ship.. -a harbinger beats a ham drake since when? beats a myrm since when? ohh wait, it doesn't... - but, but, but, if the target isn't just an easy gank i can run away!!!! grow some balls. also not like it's too hard to decide before engaging with any other closer range ship... -an apoc will kill you before fly the 75km he's shooting scorch from! ever tought engagements don't start at laser optimal? no i didn't think so... -i could go on but you are an incredibly ignorant and arrogant person...
edit: yes, in blobs lasers have an advantage... who would have thought a race based around that would be that huh?
the above assumes properly fitted and flown ships -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Mera Lehbo
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:53:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Mera Lehbo on 01/09/2009 17:54:09
Originally by: adriaans - but, but, but, if the target isn't just an easy gank i can run away!!!! grow some balls.
yes good job, in a world of "balls" and honourable courtly duels where everyone charges at each other headfirst and never disengages, blasters are king
now all you need to do make a game where that is the case and maybe you'll have a point, because in this game (it's called EVE Online) the ability of scorch pulses and barrage autocannons to dictate range means blasters will always be ****
hth
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mera Lehbo Edited by: Mera Lehbo on 01/09/2009 17:54:09
Originally by: adriaans - but, but, but, if the target isn't just an easy gank i can run away!!!! grow some balls.
yes good job, in a world of "balls" and honourable courtly duels where everyone charges at each other headfirst and never disengages, blasters are king
now all you need to do make a game where that is the case and maybe you'll have a point, because in this game (it's called EVE Online) the ability of scorch pulses and barrage autocannons to dictate range means blasters will always be ****
hth
you ignored what i wrote after that, not to mention the rest i wrote.
also, ganking easy targets = real pvp since when?
how exactly are you keeping me at range if: -i warp in right on you, right you don't because you're already scrammed before you've mwd' out of range -assuming the above does not happen: -i am faster than you, i am tanking you, a harbinger's cap while mwd'ing and shooting doesn't last long at all, and now i am killing you... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:08:00 -
[81]
Edited by: adriaans on 01/09/2009 18:09:03 also, something you seem to completely ignore, tracking disruptor with range script (other races have the spare mid slots after all), = farewell range advantage (medium guns).
-sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:21:00 -
[82]
Edited by: adriaans on 01/09/2009 18:23:07 and no wonder you seem to fail so much if you fit ships like this:
1 2 Also funny how you loose this navy omen to a rupture of all things isn't it? afterall t1 cruisers suck don't they? and lasers can kite ANYTHING right? :P 3 4
among others...
If you're fitting ships like that then i can fully understand you hating 90% of the ships in eve....
(not trying to turn this into a killboard flaming war, merely bringing forth fits you ARE/HAVE used) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:22:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Mera Lehbo whoa lookit all that DPS you can get in EFT blasters sure are great!
*gets kited outside web range*
okay maybe they suck solo but they'd be great as DPS support in a group!
*primary target dies before you even get in range*
You guys can all theory craft in the forums all you want but the rest of us are going to go with the actual results we experience in the game. There are many, many factors to consider when trying to decide whether or not a ship/weapon/whatever is viable but to just generalize that a pilot will always be in the same situation thus making a certain weapon always useful or useless is just stupid. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Avar Davola
Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:36:00 -
[84]
I dont get how you all fall for this troll, just let him be :)
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Skalet
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Posted - 2009.09.02 15:57:00 -
[85]
just had to post to say sera ryskin, you are a total idiot.
learn to play noob or get the f out of EvE.
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FOl2TY8
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:07:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Avar Davola I dont get how you all fall for this troll, just let him be :)
Meh, I personally think the Ryskin clan is right. The good thing is that there are thousands of terrible pvp'ers (including me) in Eve and against them blasters do just fine.
http://yoink.evekb.co.uk/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=855037 ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:30:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 02/09/2009 16:30:52 It depends really how you engage an enemy, i personally have little experience with lazers, but i do know that hybrids deal more damage if you can plant a good shot on a enemy with desent skills. Nowever as for the argument over blasters, if you camping a stations and your going to be in close quarters then blasters are great. also if you have a mwe you can get right up beside enemy battleships who may be fitted for snipping and blow them to pieces with a good solid broadside.
It all down to opinion and sercumstance.
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Grueve Dhama
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:10:00 -
[88]
Blasters are awesome against anyone stupid enough to let you get into web, scram and gank range. For the rest of us they don't do much unless you're in a Taranis that can actually get in range with something. They might do 22985721349587 dps if you get into range, but outside of range it's just barely 0 dps. If you're lucky. The hillarious blaster range made me crosstrain to Amarr ages ago.
I guess now's the time to tell me I fail at EVE?
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:52:00 -
[89]
xaxaxaxaxaxa
ttttttttttt
Both have their merits and niche - but to say blasters are useless is at best ignorant and at worst ******ed. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
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