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And your lifetime kb stats are awesome Cadius...41-21 record!...Your just full of win!

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Originally by: Sergeant Shafto

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I never said I assumed you'd be with a rapier, but I did go on the assumption you would be in at least a small gang if not bigger (which to me is 5-8). If in this size short range roaming HAC gang or bigger, then yes I would assume you have at least one rapier/curse/vaga/inty with scram/af with scram. In which case an inty would not be able to solo the HAM cerb. In this case, recon buddies would not have to be in point range either... rapiers, curses, arazus and falcons can all operate well outside 24km.

If you are flying in a pair, then a HAM cerb is not the right ship and a drake or sac would be better.

My point was that in a short range roaming HAC gang, a HAM cerb is a viable option since a drake would be too slow and a sac too vulnerable + can not fit as many BCUs as a cerb if armour tanked in any way. And anyway, most cerb pilots probably do not have amarr cruiser 5. I'm not sure why you are comparing being able to fly a drake (BC 4), with being able to fly a sac (Amarr cruiser 5), since clearly Amarr cruiser 5 takes a lot longer.

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Originally by: Sergeant Shafto

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Originally by: Aleus Stygian

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Originally by: Sergeant Shafto

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Except a dual rep sac can't tank a BC, let alone a small gang, but will be caught in point range. Whereas a HAM cerb can't tank either, but at least can fight at 40km+ and therefore can escape much more easily if needed.

A plate sac gives up the speed advantages of HACs and you may as well use a drake.

And finally... if you have caldari cruiser 5, but not Amarr cruiser 5, then you couldn't use a sac even if you wanted to, which is why a comparison between a HAM drake and HAM cerb is the most meaningful one to this discussion.

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But a dual rep Sac can tank a whole lot of other things. You never know when you run into a Brutix or a trio of T1s or a Huginn, etc. If you go outside of 25 km from the snagged enemy, you're no longer tackler or tacklee, but that means he'll start to open fire on your far more fragile Recon buddy.

A plate sac is still significantly faster than a webbed target, almost regardless of the ship. But yes, you're right; you could use a Drake. But that's just because BCs are a bit too powerful for HACs to have much of an allure in anything but style.

And you're already presuming that you have a wingman in a Rapier. It takes a lot more time to get Cruiser V, yes, but if you're serious about PvP these days it seems you should have both. And Battlecruisers is a level 6 skill, whereas Cruisers are level 5s...

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I never said I assumed you'd be with a rapier, but I did go on the assumption you would be in at least a small gang if not bigger (which to me is 5-8). If in this size short range roaming HAC gang or bigger, then yes I would assume you have at least one rapier/curse/vaga/inty with scram/af with scram. In which case an inty would not be able to solo the HAM cerb. In this case, recon buddies would not have to be in point range either... rapiers, curses, arazus and falcons can all operate well outside 24km.

If you are flying in a pair, then a HAM cerb is not the right ship and a drake or sac would be better.

My point was that in a short range roaming HAC gang, a HAM cerb is a viable option since a drake would be too slow and a sac too vulnerable + can not fit as many BCUs as a cerb if armour tanked in any way. And anyway, most cerb pilots probably do not have amarr cruiser 5. I'm not sure why you are comparing being able to fly a drake (BC 4), with being able to fly a sac (Amarr cruiser 5), since clearly Amarr cruiser 5 takes a lot longer.

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Originally by: Cadius Vect

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Edited by: Cadius Vect on 31/08/2009 19:04:35

Quote:

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And your lifetime kb stats are awesome Cadius...41-21 record!...Your just full of win!

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I think that's fairly respectable for a pilot with 9mill SP 3 mill of that in learning skills.

ISK Lost 1,122,239,301
ISK Destroyed 7,203,380,708

Not too shabby for a 6 month old pilot....

I assure you that once I have ~20 mill SP and ya know can actually do some meaningful DPS I'll actually start PvPing properly.

So stfu... ****er...

Lets just have a look at one of your fits from when you had played eve for 6 months:

[EPIC SMACKDOWN WITH PROOF]
lol...

Get over yourself you aren't that special.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Fun fact: A Drake takes all of 0.1 seconds longer to get into warp than a Zealot. (7.3s vs 7.4s)

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Originally by: Cadius Vect

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Edited by: Cadius Vect on 31/08/2009 22:34:43

And flying it badly!

In fact I'll just post your succession of cerb lol fits just to shame you:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=2261318

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=1918933

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=1899373

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=1976063

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=1984776

And the icing on the failcake

This is one of the most hilarious killfails I've ever had the fortune to stumble across:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=2377806

Oh and here's a real cracker a cap lol mail these are always funny, taken from November 08 so you clearly still don't have a clue about fitting:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=5257612

Let me guess, you were moving it right?

All you need to do is ask and I'll help you out with your future carrier fits;)

Would anyone really take advice from someone with fits as bad as these... seriously

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Originally by: Cadius Vect

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I assure you that once I have ~20 mill SP and ya know can actually do some meaningful DPS I'll actually start PvPing properly.

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Originally by: Seriously Bored

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Holy crap.

I fully endorse the epic pwnage going on in this thread. Makes me want popcorn.

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Originally by: Cadius Vect

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I know this is way off topic but I really feel this poor soul is in need of some assistance.

Here you go buddy this is how you fit a Chimera.

[Chimera, Chimera]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Capital Shield Booster I
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Amarr Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Caldari Navy Large Graviton Smartbomb
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Shield Transporter I

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Dragonfly x10
Berserker II x10
Berserker II x10
Ogre II x10
Ogre II x10
Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II x10
Wasp EC-900 x10
Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Berserker SW-900 x5
Warrior II x10
Warrior II x10
Hobgoblin II x10
Hobgoblin II x10
Dragonfly x5

If you need an explanation of the fit or why any modules are used please feel free to ask:)

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Fun fact: A Drake takes all of 0.1 seconds longer to get into warp than a Zealot. (7.3s vs 7.4s)

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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Boo hoo. Cry some more.

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Originally by: Terianna Eri

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Fun fact: A Drake takes all of 0.1 seconds longer to get into warp than a Zealot. (7.3s vs 7.4s)

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People still plate their zealots? (7.3s = 800mm plate) Thought everyone was shield buffering them these days, and in fact I've heard people fitting a few nanofibers to them too which makes them proper quick.

Besides that there's also the Zealot's speed and, if it's a HAM drake, range advantage, but I'm sure you know that.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Terianna Eri

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Fun fact: A Drake takes all of 0.1 seconds longer to get into warp than a Zealot. (7.3s vs 7.4s)

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People still plate their zealots? (7.3s = 800mm plate) Thought everyone was shield buffering them these days, and in fact I've heard people fitting a few nanofibers to them too which makes them proper quick.

Besides that there's also the Zealot's speed and, if it's a HAM drake, range advantage, but I'm sure you know that.

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Those times were for unfitted ships with all skills at 5.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Fun fact: A Drake takes all of 0.1 seconds longer to get into warp than a Zealot. (7.3s vs 7.4s)

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

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Originally by: Aleus Stygian

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Originally by: Artemis Rose

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Originally by: Captain Vect

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Fit

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Use an HML Drake

A drake w/ Warrior IIs would still roughly do 430 DPS, have twice the range, the added benefit of light drones and have a buffer twice as big.

If you are worried about missile flight time, the Heavies from a Drake would fly faster than Heavy Assault missiles from an unrigged Cerb.

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This.

All assault-type missiles - rockets, HAMs, torpedoes - have really lost their edge. With HAMs you are forced to either skirt ranges where you'll be quite vulnerable to Medium or even Large guns, Medium Nos/Neuts or definitely Large ones, and where the relative slowness of all missile-bearing ships combined with your need to control range will make for a terrible combination, or to charge headlong in, say a prayer, and hold on to your knickers. Regardless of your strategy, you'll only be really useful against Recons, Logistics and T1 Cruisers. You'll also make yourself far more vulnerable against smaller targets, which frankly is rather absurd, because they will be taking barely any damage even if you use Rage missiles, since AFs afterburner-tank and Ceptors are f*ckingfast.

With HMLs you'll have more precision, more net damage when signatures and speeds are factored in, more volley damage which will allow you to pop frigs far more efficiently, more range, and you'll be far more valuable to a gang.

And this is why all assault-type missiles need a serious overhaul. And why, for example, the Sacrilege and the Vengeance are denounced as mediocre for anything but tanking.

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Originally by: Liltha

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Unfortunatly you can't really point to really old kill mails on battleclinic as evidence of failfits, there are a great many partial kill mails on there that do not show all the modules.

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Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux

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i dont fly caldari. but common sense tells me if you get a 40k ish range with hams on a cerb you are WAY out of the mid 20s km range of nos and neuts and nonfaction warp disrupts. and remember, this is a cerb we are talking about. what are they going to neut your cap for? your railguns and active tank? please think before posting.

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