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Salvager I and Salvager II differences?

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Fyrana	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:13:00 - [1] Hey guys. So I was wondering, what does "access difficulty bonus" actually mean when it comes to salvagers? I know it makes me salvage faster the higher that is. Do I get better or more salvage based on that number as well?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Akita T on 10/09/2009 02:41:25 Nope, only higher chance to salvage (5% vs 7% per level) per activation - and therefore just faster salvaging. The actual salvage (types and amounts) you will get is not affected by the gear you use. Note : each wreck has a certain negative "access difficulty bonus" modifier, so that small difference in base salvage chance can mean a big difference in overall time needed to salvage, especially on more valuable wrecks. If your base chance to salvage is lower than that negative modifier, it won't even let you salvage the wreck, it will tell you you need a higher salvage skill level. _ Info about our corp \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:35:00 - [3] It means that with a salvager I, you have a 5% chance per level, base, for a successful salvage cycle. With salvager IIs, that's 7% per cycle. Thus, the chance goes from 25% to 35% with t2 salvagers and Salvaging V.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 10/09/2009 02:43:45 Originally by: Fyrana Hey guys. So I was wondering, what does "access difficulty bonus" actually mean when it comes to salvagers? I know it makes me salvage faster the higher that is. Do I get better or more salvage based on that number as well? Salvage output is pre-determined when the wreck is spawned. Using a better module will not change the potential output. A better module and/or better skills will: 1) make it faster 2) allow you to salvage more complex things. As an example of 2), say a high level ship is exploded and a wreck is created. The salvage output is already determined (it's in the wreck already). A pilot with low skills and T1 module will get nothing. A pilot with higher skills and/or T2 module will have a better chance of accessing the salvage. Accessing salvage is chance based, but if you don't have sufficient skills and/or Tech II salvagers, there are some wrecks that you just can't salvage (it doesn't mean there isn't salvage to be gained, just that you can't access it). This is what the access bonus is used for. Edit: I must be the world's slowest typer.....two people posted while I typed. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Recruitment Closed until mid-Sept.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:38:00 - [5] Now where's that image... aha. Doesn't work exactly like that, but you get the gist of it... T2 salvager is like having a T1 plus an extra two levels in salvaging. On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning?
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:22:00 - [6] Probability does not work that way. That chart is just wrong.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:52:00 - [7] http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailStatisticsForever Linkage Kidding asside, that's not how it works, but it's a reasonably decent approximation for practical purposes against the weakest wreck types. However, against larger / more valuable wrecks, the negative wreck modifier comes into play and makes higher levels of salvaging relatively much better compared to lower levels, and then whenever you have a pretty low effective chance of salvage things get way too statistical and... blah blah you get the idea anyway - bigger base salvage chance is always better. _ Info about our corp \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Louis deGuerre Gallente VA Holding Void Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.10 23:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 10/09/2009 23:19:14 Simple rules with Salvager T1 : - Salvage T2 wrecks requires Salvaging L3 - Salvage Sleeper wrecks requires Salvaging L4 I don't believe training Salvaging L5 and T2 Salvagers are worth it. Just use several T1 Salvagers on each wreck at once. --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Forranz The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp Twilight Federation	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:49:00 - [9] T2 salvagers are worth it.
Janice Jankowski	Posted - 2009.09.11 11:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Forranz T2 salvagers are worth it. explanation would be nice, or are you one of those who wrongly believe that salvage access bonus means that you get more loot?

Kurfin	Posted - 2009.09.11 11:30:00 - [11] Faster salvaging means more isk p/h so if you like to squeeze every last drop of isk from your playing time it's worth it. But with the long training time, salvaging V shouldn't be a priority for a young character.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.09.11 11:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Louis deGuerre Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 10/09/2009 23:19:14 Simple rules with Salvager T1 : - Salvage T2 wrecks requires Salvaging L3 - Salvage Sleeper wrecks requires Salvaging L4 I don't believe training Salvaging L5 and T2 Salvagers are worth it. Just use several T1 Salvagers on each wreck at once. This is a bad strategy. Level 5 and T2 will speed things up considerably. If you have multiple wrecks, it's best to spread your salvagers across all the wrecks. Why? If you concentrate all your salvagers on one wreck you GUARANTEE that most will fail on that cycle (simple - they can't all succeed). If you spread them across multiple wrecks, there's a possibility that ALL will succeed. Granted they won't all succeed all the time, but sometimes two will succeed, sometimes 3, occasionally all 4 (I'm assuming you have 4 salvagers). So statistically if you spread your salvagers across multiple wrecks, your average success is highly likely to be greater than 1. If you put all your salvagers on one wreck, then your average rate of success cannot be greater than 1. In fact it is likely to be considerably less than 1. The higher your skills, the higher your average will be and using T2 salvagers further increases the average success rate. (Salvage rigs increase it again). If you have more salvagers than wrecks, then putting multiple salvagers on one wreck will improve your chance of a successful cycle, but only in this specific case. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Recruitment Closed until mid-Sept.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.09.11 11:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Level 5 and T2 will speed things up considerably. If you have multiple wrecks, it's best to spread your salvagers across all the wrecks. How about an anecdote for the folks who can't handle that many words: I used to salvage after missions using a destroyer with five tractors and three salvagers. I can now salvage the missions faster using the same destroyer with six tractors and two T2 salvagers. Same salvage output, but 30% less time to complete the salvaging. So you people sticking with Salvaging 4, please stick with it. You're making life easier for me. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Louis deGuerre Gallente VA Holding Void Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.11 13:02:00 - [14] Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 11/09/2009 13:02:48 Originally by: Baka Lakadaka If you have more salvagers than wrecks, then putting multiple salvagers on one wreck will improve your chance of a successful cycle, but only in this specific case. This is what I meant. I generally salvage with a destroyer (4* tractor beamm 4 * salvager) in a fairly casual manner. Having more than 4 wrecks in salvaging range does not happen that often. So I usually have 1 or more spare salvagers I put on one of the wrecks in range that already has a salvager on it. Training Salvaging L5 is nice to have, but I can think of soooooo many better things to train that make a much more decisive difference in how I perform in this game, like Drone Interfacing V for example. Mara Rinn : You're welcome --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Ozone71 Caldari Kamikaze Fleet Command	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:21:00 - [15] To follow on ... Is salvage all or nothing? When the wreck is created, the salvage is fixed, but does that mean a successful salvage attempt nets me all of the salvage or does it mean that at higher levels I not only get a better chance of salvage, but that I also get more? ie: some of the salvage requires that you have a T2 salvager or Level 3+ in salvage. Meaning that if I use T1 and am level 2, I can still get salvage, but only some of the available items. With higher skills and a T2 salvager I'd get all that was available. "Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV)
Louis deGuerre Gallente VA Holding Void Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:13:00 - [16] No to all your questions. Salvage does not depend on salvager type or skill. Of course, skill must be high enough to actually salvage. --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Ozone71 To follow on ... Is salvage all or nothing? When the wreck is created, the salvage is fixed, but does that mean a successful salvage attempt nets me all of the salvage or does it mean that at higher levels I not only get a better chance of salvage, but that I also get more? ie: some of the salvage requires that you have a T2 salvager or Level 3+ in salvage. Meaning that if I use T1 and am level 2, I can still get salvage, but only some of the available items. With higher skills and a T2 salvager I'd get all that was available. It's all or nothing. If you have sufficient skills, then you can get a successful cycle and will access all that's available in that wreck. If you have insufficient skills you get nothing as you can't have a successful cycle. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Recruitment Closed until mid-Sept.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Core Factor	Posted - 2009.09.14 12:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Louis deGuerre I don't believe training Salvaging L5 and T2 Salvagers are worth it. Just use several T1 Salvagers on each wreck at once. I disagree with your general conclusion here, especially in light of the minimum requirements you just posted. Those requirements are the points at which you end up with 5% chance of a successful salvage. Or in other words, you'll take on average 20 attempts to succeed (and approximately half the time it will be more than 20). If we're talking about intermediate Sleeper wrecks, then that's an average of 20 cycles with Salvaging 4 and a Salvager I. If you trained Salvaging 5 and used a T2 salvager instead, you'd have a 20% chance of success and thus an average of 5 cycles to succeed. In the long run, you'd salvage things four times as fast. Now of course, if you only salvage occasionally, with minor time constraints (e.g. cleaning up a couple of wrecks after a PvP battle) then you can probably get by with Salvaging 3-4. But if you salvage for any non-negligible amount of time, then Salvaging 5 will let you finish salvaging between two and four times faster, depending on the difficulty of the wreck. That's quite a substantial difference (and would probably save you more time to complete + salvage a mission than a lot of other skills, probably even Drone Interfacing V on a non-Domi).
Tetragammatron Prime	Posted - 2009.09.14 12:20:00 - [19] I can imagine a lot of missions you could fit 2 x t2 salvagers and tractors on a marauder and salvage all the large and medium wrecks as you go without endless fail cycles and no need to bring in a salvage boat.


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