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Hanah Steelthorn	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:30:00 - [1] Been playing the game for a few months now, and am having a good time, in general. The corp I'm a member of has been served with wardecs twice in the last 3 weeks, both times by a bunch of twits who are likely bullied on a regular basis in real life and bring their neuroses to the the game as some sort of salve to their bruised and battered egos. Both time the servers of the wardecs were seeking nothing more than extortion. The first time the offending corps ceo had his account shut down by CCP, and I don't know how the second is going to turn out as they seem to be more organized and have a larger membership. The point being here, If I want trouble, I'll go looking for it in losec. These ****ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. If they have a legitimate beef that's fine...take it to losec and leave the rest of us alone. It's bad enough seeing this crap go on every day in real life. To have to put up with it in a game is utter BS, and CCP needs to put a stop to it.
randomname4me	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:40:00 - [2] Ya mad? EVE Online: Rated RRR- For Explicit Breakfast Piercing Bullets.
Mr 0wnage	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:42:00 - [3] War Dec's 4tw if you don't like them go and play WoW :-)
Kiva Aharan	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:44:00 - [4] If you don't like wardecs stay in NPC corps.
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Somali Coastguard Authority	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:44:00 - [5] Can I have your stuff? Ifly
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:44:00 - [6] Originally by: randomname4me Ya mad? (S)He sounds mad. A likely cause of wardecs, present and future. Good job at making yourself a public target though OP.
Hanah Steelthorn	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:46:00 - [7] Mad...? No. Just tired of getting caught up in the psych issues some of the players bring with them into the game. That's what ECT and anti-psychotic meds are for. Extortion is against the law in RL...needs to be in EVE as well.
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Somali Coastguard Authority	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn law ... EVE Oxymoron detected. Ifly
randomname4me	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn Mad...? No. Just tired of getting caught up in the psych issues some of the players bring with them into the game. That's what ECT and anti-psychotic meds are for. Extortion is against the law in RL...needs to be in EVE as well. blowing up peoples cars is illegal in real life too... EVE Online: Rated RRR- For Explicit Breakfast Piercing Bullets.
arambe fuddled	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:04:00 - [10] You seem to be under the misguided impression that highsec is a no-pvp zone. Wardeccing a corp and demanding isk is a completely legit game mechanic. If your corp can't defend itself from rival corps, then it has no business existing. I would suggest that you either get some pvpers to help defend you or hire some mercs, but judging by the way you're talking about the people who decced you, you appear have issues differentiating games from real life. I'd suggest that you give up gaming in general because it's obviously too much for you to handle.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:11:00 - [11] Originally by: arambe fuddled You seem to be under the misguided impression that highsec is a no-pvp zone. Wardeccing a corp and demanding isk is a completely legit game mechanic. If your corp can't defend itself from rival corps, then it has no business existing. This. Beeing or having a corp is a privilege, not a right. Join a corp that can actually defend itself or drop into a NPC corp.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:14:00 - [12] Dissolve the corp. Just make a private channel for you and your mates, set sandings to 10 to each other, and bam. It's just like being in a corp, but with no fees! Seriously though, posting on the forums to whine about wardecs is a very bad idea. On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning?
Kuar Z'thain Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:19:00 - [13] ITT: OP trolling for more wardecs.
Erick Odin Amarr UNIX ALLSTARS	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:39:00 - [14] I was in low sec yesterday harassing some gate campers, and I was promptly threatened with a war dec. I couldn't help but think , ummm I'm in lowsec sec right now you don't need a wardec to engage. Whats the point? Should small corps like mine, who spend most of their time in low/null/wh even care that we are decd?
Dretzle Omega Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Erick Odin I was in low sec yesterday harassing some gate campers, and I was promptly threatened with a war dec. I couldn't help but think , ummm I'm in lowsec sec right now you don't need a wardec to engage. Whats the point? Should small corps like mine, who spend most of their time in low/null/wh even care that we are decd? Pretty much the only benefit to them would be that they don't get sec standings loss if they shoot you. Also that if you happen to pop into high sec they can shoot you. If you don't even go to high sec, there's nothing you should be more worried about than normal, except that you know you are being hunted rather than just being paranoid that you are. :D
Landrassa Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn These ***ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. Points at Corporation name* Extortion is our business. Tears and complaints from the likes of you is just the icing on the cake. War is a part of EVE. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going nah nah nah nah nah pretending the bad people aren't out there will serve noone. Oh, and the whole "ingame bullies have real life issues" fad is so past millenium... --------------------------------------------------- Recruitment thread
Mr Sean	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:12:00 - [17] whine whine whine op when you are getting your butt handed to you on a platter by wardeccers, you don't look very hardcore or resourceful when your first response is to run to the forums and whine about it. It's called game mechanics, and they are working as intended. Maybe your corp should man up and figure out a way to deal with the problem yourselves. Or you could stay docked for a week or longer and just post more whine here. You know, either way. :)
Hanah Steelthorn	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Landrassa Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn These ***ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. Points at Corporation name* Extortion is our business. Tears and complaints from the likes of you is just the icing on the cake. War is a part of EVE. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going nah nah nah nah nah pretending the bad people aren't out there will serve noone. Oh, and the whole "ingame bullies have real life issues" fad is so past millenium... The truth hurts...don't it.
Saju Somtaaw Gallente Diiamond Heavy Industries MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:21:00 - [19] Ignore 'em. Just keep an eye on local, and if reds show up dock up. ---- --- ---
Leaving Eve Boo Hoo Federation	Posted - 2009.09.10 20:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn Originally by: Landrassa Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn These ***ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. Points at Corporation name* Extortion is our business. Tears and complaints from the likes of you is just the icing on the cake. War is a part of EVE. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going nah nah nah nah nah pretending the bad people aren't out there will serve noone. Oh, and the whole "ingame bullies have real life issues" fad is so past millenium... The truth hurts...don't it. Wait I'm confused. The "truth" of them being extortionists, and yet it's right in their corp name. Did you figure out what they did all by yourself or what?
Hanah Steelthorn	Posted - 2009.09.11 09:52:00 - [21] The whole point being that it is far too easy to serve a wardec. And it undermines the corporate driven structure of the game.
Thornat	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:03:00 - [22] Edited by: Thornat on 11/09/2009 10:04:53 Edited by: Thornat on 11/09/2009 10:04:17 Edited by: Thornat on 11/09/2009 10:03:35 Edited by: Thornat on 11/09/2009 10:03:14 Well you didn't find any pitty on the forums and you aren't likely ever going to find any in game. First thing you need to know is that Eve is a PvP game. If you play Eve Online you are a PvPer, if your a not a PvPer then you are logging into the wrong game, its as simple as that. You complain about getting Wardeced in Eve is the equivilant of logging into Counter-Strike and complaining that people are shooting at you. Carebears do exist in Eve, but the game is not made for them, it is made for the type of guys you seem to be trying to avoid in game. I wrote a blog a while back about Eve, and while I usually don't like to toot my own horn, I think its good reading for anyone who is confused about what Eve online is all about. http://playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com/2006/09/eve-online-experience-this-blog-since.html
Extraho Rector	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:04:00 - [23] I imagine you'll be getting a few more war dec's once people read this and realize they lost 5 minutes of their life, which they now want you to pay for with interest.
Dario Wall Caldari Corvus Industries	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:07:00 - [24] OP is in an NPC rookie corp, checked it in-game. I smell a trolling alt.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:25:00 - [25] Don't pay any ransoms, it'll just make you a target of more. Set some nice long skills, log in and stay in a station or better yet cloak in a system far from anything. Then go outside and enjoy the day. Boredom is what kills them more than guns. It's also possible that 1 or more spies could be in your corp. Most of the chronic war declarers try to get a spy in before declaring.
Sabriele Amarr Department of Defence Prismatic Refraction	Posted - 2009.09.11 10:49:00 - [26] People never seem to learn that posting on the forums about 'omgz i got wardecced its stupid and should be banned QQ' generally attracts even more corps to wardec them for the lulz. runs to the war room
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BigMek Industries GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.11 11:26:00 - [27] Get off my lawn ! We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango
gfldex	Posted - 2009.09.11 12:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn The point being here, If I want trouble, I'll go looking for it in losec. These ****ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. If they have a legitimate beef that's fine...take it to losec and leave the rest of us alone. It's bad enough seeing this crap go on every day in real life. To have to put up with it in a game is utter BS, and CCP needs to put a stop to it. In the beginning of EVE there where no sentries and no CONCORD. Amazing players like you went dock when successful players entered the system. Lots of bad players where complaining so CCP came up with a compromise. That compromise is the wardec mechanic we have nowadays. As any compromise it's less then awesome. The only thing we got out of it is hiding the core of the game. Lots of bad players fall for it and stay for a few month before they are driven back to games they can be halve decent at.
KoChun Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.09.11 13:04:00 - [29] I've seen this thread in a million variations since 2004. It's not going to change, sorry . Some advice: - Don't advertise that you are an industrial corp. Stuff like recruitment threads, chat spam, bio entries. - Stay mobile - Have a good look at your member base. Some people use alts to inilitrate corps to look for targets. - Don't fly alone - Don't go out of your way to avoid a fight. Get some cheap ships and fight. Might as well get some experience while getting curb-stomped :) - Don't corp-hop to avoide the war (CEO makes new corp and all members transfer). It's an exploit and gets you GM attention. - If you keep getting owned just join an npc corp.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.09.11 13:06:00 - [30] Wardecs are crucial or hi sec will be truly PVP free. All corps are formed for a purpose, or the players may as well stay in the safe NPC corps. Always that purpose must allow for PVP, even if its a loose arrangement with a PVP corps to protect them. If a Corp has not provided for the high chance of a war dec then they have made a big mistake, its up to them to correct it, not the game.
Doddy The Executives Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.09.11 13:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn The whole point being that it is far too easy to serve a wardec. And it undermines the corporate driven structure of the game. Not really, its the only way to kill off weak corps as isk is far too easy to make in eve. In RL a failcorp does just that it fails as it runs out of money. In eve a corp can be useless and pathetic yet still survive, its members stuck in its failness and unable to reach their full potential. Then a war dec comes along and kills the corp and the players are free to join a decent corp that can defend itself against war decs (or create another failcorp ofc). A remotely decent corp will not be damaged by a war dec at all and a good corp will be strengthened by it.
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2009.09.11 14:48:00 - [32] don't cry on eve-o pls... seriously you will just get flamed and bullied here as well :)
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.09.11 15:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn Originally by: Landrassa Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn These ***ers have no business serving a wardec for no other purpose than extortion. Points at Corporation name* Extortion is our business. Tears and complaints from the likes of you is just the icing on the cake. War is a part of EVE. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going nah nah nah nah nah pretending the bad people aren't out there will serve noone. Oh, and the whole "ingame bullies have real life issues" fad is so past millenium... The truth hurts...don't it. Last night, at midnight, while watching my old blind and deaf beagle do her duty in the front yard I spied with my eye, and heard with my ear, a kitty cat crying in the night under the next door neighbors car. I don't own a cat. I scooped up my old blind and deaf beagle and placed her back in the house. I then brought out water and food for that poor little kitty cat and sat there with it for a good 10 minutes (at midnight mind you) while it finished its meal. And I don't even like cats. Yeah, I'm a bad ass mean mofo in Real Life with a bully complex. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.11 17:22:00 - [34] OP... Please read and understand this: Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to BE a cold, dark and harsh world. If that is not the type of game you're looking for, there are suitable games for you. EVE however, is not one of them. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Hanah Steelthorn	Posted - 2009.09.12 01:13:00 - [35] For those of you who provided constructive criticism and valid suggestions, thank you. The rest of you can sod off.
Sgt Z3R0	Posted - 2009.09.12 01:25:00 - [36] If you really hate wardecs just stay in a NPC corp. Wardecs are fine atm.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.09.12 01:29:00 - [37] Unfortunately, you're about to learn an incredibly painful lesson- whining about being wardecced on the forums in this manner will get you many, many more wardecs. I'm guessing you've already gotten two or three just waiting out the 24-hour timer, so you should expect a few mails soon (if you haven't gotten them already). By the time this is over you'll be lucky to have a corp. Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.12 05:16:00 - [38] Ha, if anything, wardecs have been nerfed too much at present. As people have pointed out, Eve is designed to be a harsh, PvP-centric game. Empire is designed to provide only very limited protection from harsh PvP - it does not, and should not, insulate you completely. If you don't want the risk of ever getting shot at, stay in station, or find another MMO.
joxter Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.12 12:58:00 - [39] I know war dec's will never be removed but it would be a great improvement if the victim corp could approve/deny the dec. Example: Loser Pirate Corp war dec's Noble Miners Corp Noble Miners gets the allow/deny option If the miners want to fight then they select ALLOW and the war dec proceeds as normal If the miners want to continue in peace they select DENY and the war dec is cancelled Loser Pirate Corp now has two choices left, suicide gank the Noble Miners Corp and take thier stuff OR go play somewhere else like low sec or 0.0 where PvP belongs.
Sabriele Amarr Department of Defence Prismatic Refraction	Posted - 2009.09.12 13:14:00 - [40] Originally by: joxter I know war dec's will never be removed but it would be a great improvement if the victim corp could approve/deny the dec. Example: Loser Pirate Corp war dec's Noble Miners Corp Noble Miners gets the allow/deny option If the miners want to fight then they select ALLOW and the war dec proceeds as normal If the miners want to continue in peace they select DENY and the war dec is cancelled Loser Pirate Corp now has two choices left, suicide gank the Noble Miners Corp and take thier stuff OR go play somewhere else like low sec or 0.0 where PvP belongs. Then that defeats the point of a wardec... you might as well loot each others cans. Wardecs just filter out the weak corps from the stronger ones. Now i shall wardec you for your insolence
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.12 13:25:00 - [41] Replying to: joxter Caldari Science and Trade Institute Originally by: Sabriele Now i shall wardec you for your insolence I think he is quite certain you won't Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Xiozor Anonymous Alcoholics Wrath.	Posted - 2009.09.12 13:28:00 - [42] Confirming that by declaring war on a corp and not maintaining E-honour I am of course a physically abused, depressed sociopath who sits at home all day with no job whose only satisfaction in life is destroying internet spaceships. ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes.
joxter Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.12 13:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Sabriele Then that defeats the point of a wardec... you might as well loot each others cans. Wardecs just filter out the weak corps from the stronger ones. Now i shall wardec you for your insolence The point of a war dec is so 0.0 corps and alliances can harass the opposition in hisec. any other use is simple grief play. I laugh at your petty threat and fart in your general direction.
Marz Ghola Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.09.12 13:53:00 - [44] Sadly you can't war-dec npc corps. I wish they would have a 30 day limit on char time allowed in npc corps to make them play the game as it is meant to be. People who stay in npc corps will always be playing eve in a limited fashion as an outsider. Their opinions do not really count. On the other hand, CCP greyscale guy had commented before that the current war-dec mechanics are very much "pay to grief" and should be changed. Maybe something along the lines of having objectives the declaring corp have to meet, or get a huge isk penalty (isk held like a buy order escrow). If they don't make a certain percentage of damage vs. those they decced, they get charged like a billion isk or something. This might get deccing corps out of station and fighting more often unless they get broke due to not meeting their dec/concord commitments. Then if you really wanted to stick it to a war-dec corp, you can just stay docked and be sure they fail At any rate Hanah Steelhorn, you have the chance to now become really good at pvp for free Double win for ya
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.12 14:41:00 - [45] Edited by: Kerfira on 12/09/2009 14:41:30 Originally by: Marz Ghola People who stay in npc corps will always be playing eve in a limited fashion as an outsider. Their opinions do not really count. Not really true.... They're EVE players as well, and pay just as much to play as you do. Thus their opinion count EXACTLY as much as yours. EVE is a sandbox, thus there is no 'right' way to play EVE... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Eelis Kiy Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.09.12 14:53:00 - [46] Hanah see my reply in this thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1177290 It has some tips in you might find useful. Having a war dec when you are new and want to stay in high-sec pve-ing is a bit of a baptism of fire. But you need to accept that it is part of Eve, and if you can get over that then you can start looking at ways of dealing with the issue, rather than expecting the issue to change because you dont like it. War decs are a perfectly legit way of making iskies in Eve so you have to get used to the fact that they will come if you look like a target. And take this advice as constructive - I feel your pain as I went through this with my previous corp a couple years ago
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.09.13 01:26:00 - [47] So how many two-bit griefer corps have latched onto you and declared war now? I'm guessing at least three. Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast
Korovyov Cool Story Bro	Posted - 2009.09.13 03:03:00 - [48] ITT PvP happened. Welcome to EVE Online. Enjoy your stay.
joxter Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.09.13 03:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Jimer Lins So how many two-bit griefer corps have latched onto you and declared war now? I'm guessing at least three. This is why I made a forum alt many years ago.
Sani Oska	Posted - 2009.09.13 03:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn .. both times by a bunch of twits who are likely bullied on a regular basis in real life and bring their neuroses to the the game as some sort of salve to their bruised and battered egos. "i've lost to them in game but at least i can assume myself to be morally superior to them irl and thus claim a victory" it's a pvp game suck it up or quit
Vandamsel Gallente Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:09:00 - [51] Originally by: arambe fuddled You seem to be under the misguided impression that highsec is a no-pvp zone. Wardeccing a corp and demanding isk is a completely legit game mechanic. If your corp can't defend itself from rival corps, then it has no business existing. I would suggest that you either get some pvpers to help defend you or hire some mercs, but judging by the way you're talking about the people who decced you, you appear have issues differentiating games from real life. I'd suggest that you give up gaming in general because it's obviously too much for you to handle. This OP, it seems to me you can't handle people blowing up your internet spaceship. I think you might be the one with the issues tbqfh...
Drykor Minmatar Reikoku	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:43:00 - [52] Excellent troll. Almost fell for it. 8/10
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:52:00 - [53] All the pieces of the puzzle in one thread: Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn The whole point being that it is far too easy to serve a wardec. And it undermines the corporate driven structure of the game. Originally by: Sgt Z3R0 If you really hate wardecs just stay in a NPC corp. Wardecs are fine atm. Originally by: Rotnac As people have pointed out, Eve is designed to be a harsh, PvP-centric game. <...> Originally by: Marz Ghola Sadly you can't war-dec npc corps. I wish they would have a 30 day limit on char time allowed in npc corps to make them play the game as it is meant to be. <...> EvE is a sandbox. The only obvious design principle is that CCP don't want to hire a lot of GM's to act as "game police". EvE's players have made what might have been introductory PvP boring. And on top of the trust problem, have made joining (and starting) Corps even less attractive. But rather than accept the consequences of these choices, we note that for every rookie suggestion that the sandbox is adjusted to allow them to PvE in peace, there is a corresponding whine from an established player asking CCP to provide them with an unlimited supply of unwilling and helpless victims. Don't assume that everyone who likes to play internet spaceships thinks one-sided fights are fun, and ganking is something to aspire to. People use NPC corps because they want to avoid the boredom of highSec and lowSec "PvP". If you want people to PvP, think about making it fun.
Harisdrop Gallente Copia-WarRages Armaments	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Kiva Aharan If you don't like wardecs stay in NPC corps. NOOOOOOO!!! get more members to respond faster.
vinnymcg Stellar Running INC	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:13:00 - [55] Originally by: randomname4me Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn Mad...? No. Just tired of getting caught up in the psych issues some of the players bring with them into the game. That's what ECT and anti-psychotic meds are for. Extortion is against the law in RL...needs to be in EVE as well. blowing up peoples cars is illegal in real life too... Think before you talk! A car is the equivalent of a space going warship? NO! A ship in eve is the equivalent of a tank or fighter jet in RL. It IS illegal to blow one up unless you are at war with the country of ownership. And for the record countries don't just pay a few million and go to war there must be a reason for it to be accepted by the international community, and I think wars in this game should be the same. You should not be allowed to declare war unless a member or members of your corp have been attacked by another party. If you shoot me I should be able to declare war on you and that is the only way it should be allowed to happen.....well unless its a 0.0 alliance but then it doesnt really matter. Quickbar tread
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:47:00 - [56] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 13/09/2009 12:47:37 Originally by: vinnymcg Originally by: randomname4me Originally by: Hanah Steelthorn Mad...? No. Just tired of getting caught up in the psych issues some of the players bring with them into the game. That's what ECT and anti-psychotic meds are for. Extortion is against the law in RL...needs to be in EVE as well. blowing up peoples cars is illegal in real life too... Think before you talk! A car is the equivalent of a space going warship? NO! A ship in eve is the equivalent of a tank or fighter jet in RL. It IS illegal to blow one up unless you are at war with the country of ownership. And for the record countries don't just pay a few million and go to war there must be a reason for it to be accepted by the international community, and I think wars in this game should be the same. You should not be allowed to declare war unless a member or members of your corp have been attacked by another party. If you shoot me I should be able to declare war on you and that is the only way it should be allowed to happen.....well unless its a 0.0 alliance but then it doesnt really matter. I think you have rosy picture of wars, if you think they have to be approved by the international community. The community forum is there, so you can try to justify your actions and try to gain support and legitimacy, but wars are fought when someone decides to wardec someone. In a democracy it takes some propaganda and persuation too, but the lack of support from the people doesn't necessarily stop a government from going to war. The reasons for war are seldom self defence, although people say it more often, since it is great for trying to justify your own aggression. The real reasons are varied, but basicly you fight wars to gain a better strategic position. The reasons can be very petty and unjust, but if your side does it, citizens don't really care that much, if things go as planned. Other nations follow their own interests and goals and have very pragmatic attitude towards international relationships. They may vote against you in the UN and parade in front of cameras, but they aren't going to do anything against you in most cases nor does it stop you from going to war. So I think you are mistaking ideals for reality. Just cause is something that someone can roleplay, but it should not be enforced by game mechanics. Not to mention you could use a spies and baiting to force a wardec anyway. But you would be okay with that surely, since then there would be just cause to mass murder the industry/missioning corp because of their unprovoked aggression against an innocent PvP corp.
Corozan Aspinall	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:58:00 - [57] High sec war dec is generally just griefing. I accept it for what it is - an expensive extension of can flipping. I would like to see war dec's made substantially more expensive though. 2m is a joke. If dec'ing an alliance is double digits, so a corp war, especially by an alliance, ought to be ten times more expensive than it is.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 13:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Gsptlsnz baww with da baww daww Bang-a-dang-diggy-diggy...eh, you know the rest. Consentual-only PvP whine spotted, BECAUSE OF E-HONOR! Memes are fun! Seriously, where did you get the idea that it's not fair to spout a silly idea without people spouting an opposing silly idea? I can has freedom of speech plz? The rules of the game are simple and straightforward. If you don't take them into account, be prepared for the consequences. Or as was said once, 'You can't lose if you don't play.'
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.09.13 14:20:00 - [59] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 13/09/2009 14:23:53 Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 13/09/2009 14:23:02@ Junko I told you (n another thread?) that you are projecting. Let me be a little more direct - you are manufacturing your claims out of smoke. The substance of my comments has nothing to do with what I might think of gankers. I just put that in for amusement. The substance is a simple and self-evident statement of cause and effect: people react to the boredom of one-sided PvP by not participating in it. The strangest thing of all is that EvE seems to have become a majority PvE game in spite of a PvP-biased design, because of player actions. People like you would do better to consider how to turn this around, rather than wasting what little creativity you have on fantastical fabricated arguments. Your "rules of the game" comment is bizarre even for a ganker whine: are you suggesting that the EULA for EvE requires players to PvP? Such an extraordinary claim calls for evidence.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 15:24:00 - [60] Won't be any 'turning it around'. Might be a 'give it a new avenue', but the old streets will still exist, idiots will still walk down them, and the same old thugs, killers and thieves will take advantage of it. EVE is about enabling playstyles, not destroying them. Will the e-honor types get a duel system someday? Maybe. CCP was considering something like it, but it got shot down when the designs were linked.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.09.13 16:36:00 - [61] Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 13/09/2009 16:38:28 I'm not suggesting any specfic solution. Certainly not duels. 90% of EvE's players PvE in highSec. Nobody in highSec is whining about not being forced to PvP. They've adapted. Specific suggestions to make PvP more attractive should come from the people who made highSec PvE the best way to play the game.
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.13 17:22:00 - [62] Originally by: vinnymcg Think before you talk! A car is the equivalent of a space going warship? NO! A ship in eve is the equivalent of a tank or fighter jet in RL. It IS illegal to blow one up unless you are at war with the country of ownership. And for the record countries don't just pay a few million and go to war there must be a reason for it to be accepted by the international community, and I think wars in this game should be the same. You should not be allowed to declare war unless a member or members of your corp have been attacked by another party. If you shoot me I should be able to declare war on you and that is the only way it should be allowed to happen.....well unless its a 0.0 alliance but then it doesnt really matter. Hi, I'm from the US, maybe you've heard of us? We occasionally enjoy bombing the ever-living ** out of some little **ant countries. Its actually surprisingly similar to the current Eve situation! I, personally, like the fact that wardecs allow for insertion of PvP anywhere in the game. Who knows, maybe the fee needs tweaking, I dunno (although alliances already have to pay boatloads right now to wardec anyone). Ultimately, Eve is about PvP. Specifically, "non-consensual" PvP. Which I think is a misnomer - if you've undocked, you consent. So, either be willing to deal with it, or stay in station/leave. I don't want Eve to become even an inch more carebear-ish and WoW-like.
Good Advice	Posted - 2009.09.13 18:37:00 - [63] Here is how you take care of wardecs from corps like this: 1. Point out they can dec Eve University and get access to 1000+ pilots, most of whom are new to the game 2. Make sure you stress how many easy kills they'll get, and how fun it will be.

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