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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:43:00 -
[1]
In addition to the discussions here and here regarding the upcoming nerf to the use of Dual Micro Warp Drives, I would like to discuss the effects that this nerf will have on mission runners.
This nerf was clearly intended to provide balance in PvP combat, however this nerf also has severe and negative consequences for those of us who also enjoy the PvE side of the game - the mission runners.
Whilst all the new content regarding missions in Shiva looks great, what we can now look forward to is courier missions taking almost twice as long. These missions, in my opinion at least, already took too long to complete. Removing the ability to use dual micro warp drives will only add to the tediousness and boredom that is characteristic of these missions at times.
As this upcoming change has what I am assuming to be an unintentional nerf on mission runners I would like to know what, if any, changes are going to be made to rectify this?
Will the amount of jumps required to complete a mission be lowered?
Will we see a new ship (with no high slots) that has the ability to fit two MWD's?
Will this nerf be changed to something like you cannot activate highslots whilst having two microwarp drives active?
From what I assume this nerf was only meant to balance PvP combat and stop the 'un-balanced' act of people using dual MWD's and spamming missiles etc. Unfortunately this upcoming change will also have some unintended victims and as a result it will severely diminish my enjoyment of the game. I hope CCP will come up with a solution.
The Sloth.
P.S. If you wish to discuss anything else about the upcoming MWD nerf, please do so in one of the aformentioned threads. I am only interested in discussing the effect that this change will have on mission runners.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:43:00 -
[2]
In addition to the discussions here and here regarding the upcoming nerf to the use of Dual Micro Warp Drives, I would like to discuss the effects that this nerf will have on mission runners.
This nerf was clearly intended to provide balance in PvP combat, however this nerf also has severe and negative consequences for those of us who also enjoy the PvE side of the game - the mission runners.
Whilst all the new content regarding missions in Shiva looks great, what we can now look forward to is courier missions taking almost twice as long. These missions, in my opinion at least, already took too long to complete. Removing the ability to use dual micro warp drives will only add to the tediousness and boredom that is characteristic of these missions at times.
As this upcoming change has what I am assuming to be an unintentional nerf on mission runners I would like to know what, if any, changes are going to be made to rectify this?
Will the amount of jumps required to complete a mission be lowered?
Will we see a new ship (with no high slots) that has the ability to fit two MWD's?
Will this nerf be changed to something like you cannot activate highslots whilst having two microwarp drives active?
From what I assume this nerf was only meant to balance PvP combat and stop the 'un-balanced' act of people using dual MWD's and spamming missiles etc. Unfortunately this upcoming change will also have some unintended victims and as a result it will severely diminish my enjoyment of the game. I hope CCP will come up with a solution.
The Sloth.
P.S. If you wish to discuss anything else about the upcoming MWD nerf, please do so in one of the aformentioned threads. I am only interested in discussing the effect that this change will have on mission runners.
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fugazii
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Posted - 2004.10.21 11:22:00 -
[3]
use 100mn ab's on cruisers instead of mwd
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fugazii
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Posted - 2004.10.21 11:22:00 -
[4]
use 100mn ab's on cruisers instead of mwd
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:39:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: fugazii
use 100mn ab's on cruisers instead of mwd
Whilst this option limits the impact of this change for the meanwhile, it is not a sufficient solution. This option is still not as effective as operating dual MWD's and agility is also lost because frigates have no such option.
Missions will still take longer than they currently do, which will lead to less enjoyment of the game for those regular mission runners.
Also what happens when/if these modules will be restricted to battleships?
The Sloth.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: fugazii
use 100mn ab's on cruisers instead of mwd
Whilst this option limits the impact of this change for the meanwhile, it is not a sufficient solution. This option is still not as effective as operating dual MWD's and agility is also lost because frigates have no such option.
Missions will still take longer than they currently do, which will lead to less enjoyment of the game for those regular mission runners.
Also what happens when/if these modules will be restricted to battleships?
The Sloth.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:42:00 -
[7]
Edited by: S'Daria on 21/10/2004 12:51:39
I believe you can't use dual afterburners as well...
Can someone verify.
Someone already said that they could not use an Afterburner + Micro Warpdrive.
Not being able to use dual Micro Warpdrives in my bestower is going to slow courier missions for me.
My top speed with a bestower with two MWD is about max: 660m/s (average: (660-200)/2 = 430m/s) vs. max: 460m/s (average: (460-200)/2 = 330m/s) with one.
It may not seem much but that's an extra but that extra 10 seconds per gate is an extra 10 seconds that rats get to attack or have a chance to warp jam you.
Will be interesting.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:42:00 -
[8]
Edited by: S'Daria on 21/10/2004 12:51:39
I believe you can't use dual afterburners as well...
Can someone verify.
Someone already said that they could not use an Afterburner + Micro Warpdrive.
Not being able to use dual Micro Warpdrives in my bestower is going to slow courier missions for me.
My top speed with a bestower with two MWD is about max: 660m/s (average: (660-200)/2 = 430m/s) vs. max: 460m/s (average: (460-200)/2 = 330m/s) with one.
It may not seem much but that's an extra but that extra 10 seconds per gate is an extra 10 seconds that rats get to attack or have a chance to warp jam you.
Will be interesting.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:53:00 -
[9]
I think they want everyone to just tank the damage using armor repairers and hardeners for Kill missions.
Or to slow down courier mission runners, because we all know that courier mission runners make so much money.
What this nerf is doing is removing the dual MWD Ravens who can MWD out of a webifier.
And this nerf is also aimed at the dual MWD interceptors that dual MWD from a warp and jam/webify you before you have a chance to do anything.
Also this nerf is aimed at interceptors who can out-run missiles (they move so fast that they can ignore missiles), except in Shiva, my understanding, is that their orbits are now a little random and so F.O.F. missiles will hit you while orbiting at 1km - I haven't been able to verify it though.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:53:00 -
[10]
I think they want everyone to just tank the damage using armor repairers and hardeners for Kill missions.
Or to slow down courier mission runners, because we all know that courier mission runners make so much money.
What this nerf is doing is removing the dual MWD Ravens who can MWD out of a webifier.
And this nerf is also aimed at the dual MWD interceptors that dual MWD from a warp and jam/webify you before you have a chance to do anything.
Also this nerf is aimed at interceptors who can out-run missiles (they move so fast that they can ignore missiles), except in Shiva, my understanding, is that their orbits are now a little random and so F.O.F. missiles will hit you while orbiting at 1km - I haven't been able to verify it though.
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Garia666
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:59:00 -
[11]
Hmm this is an interesting discusion that i will folow..
I agree to the courier missions take way to long..
It feels like work instead of enjoying the game..
Mabe an idea to introduce a new high speed hauler (industrial) for amar or something ..
no slots but high speed and major cargo.. atleast enough to do all the missions..
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Garia666
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Posted - 2004.10.21 12:59:00 -
[12]
Hmm this is an interesting discusion that i will folow..
I agree to the courier missions take way to long..
It feels like work instead of enjoying the game..
Mabe an idea to introduce a new high speed hauler (industrial) for amar or something ..
no slots but high speed and major cargo.. atleast enough to do all the missions..
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:24:00 -
[13]
I used to use a dual mwd for light courier work. I currently keep a dual mwd exequror parked for when my kill mission agent gets creative. I understand why they want to nerf dual mwd, but the method they have chosen prevents people from setting up purely for speed with little or no combat ability.
Perhaps this is intentional, but if it is, they've killed courier missions/agents for all but the newbies.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:24:00 -
[14]
I used to use a dual mwd for light courier work. I currently keep a dual mwd exequror parked for when my kill mission agent gets creative. I understand why they want to nerf dual mwd, but the method they have chosen prevents people from setting up purely for speed with little or no combat ability.
Perhaps this is intentional, but if it is, they've killed courier missions/agents for all but the newbies.
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SKurj
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:34:00 -
[15]
Oversized AB are gone now as well I hear...
SKurj
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SKurj
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:34:00 -
[16]
Oversized AB are gone now as well I hear...
SKurj
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:44:00 -
[17]
I just did some testing on Tranquility and with only one MWD it takes me 10 more seconds per jump vs. two MWD.
I still need to test AB+MWD, but I'm not sure if that is legal either on the Singularity server.
Could someone verify:
1. MWD+MWD = No
2. MWD+AB = No???
3. AB+AB = Yes
Thanks.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:44:00 -
[18]
I just did some testing on Tranquility and with only one MWD it takes me 10 more seconds per jump vs. two MWD.
I still need to test AB+MWD, but I'm not sure if that is legal either on the Singularity server.
Could someone verify:
1. MWD+MWD = No
2. MWD+AB = No???
3. AB+AB = Yes
Thanks.
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ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:59:00 -
[19]
Options 2 and 3 should be valid.
The other option is to train engineering lvl 5 and minmatar industrial lvl 4. Mount a 10mn mwd on it. You can achieve speeds of 800 before you hit the gate.
You cant use 2mwd on a frig on approach to gate. It does not work. So the nerf has no relevance on frigs.
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I wanna tuc tuc .. |
ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.10.21 13:59:00 -
[20]
Options 2 and 3 should be valid.
The other option is to train engineering lvl 5 and minmatar industrial lvl 4. Mount a 10mn mwd on it. You can achieve speeds of 800 before you hit the gate.
You cant use 2mwd on a frig on approach to gate. It does not work. So the nerf has no relevance on frigs.
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I wanna tuc tuc .. |
The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ZelRox
You cant use 2mwd on a frig on approach to gate. It does not work. So the nerf has no relevance on frigs.
Sorry I don't quite get what you mean.
You can activate 2 MWD's on a frigate whilst approaching a gate/station on Tranquility at the moment and it significantly reduces the amount of time it takes to jump/dock.
The Sloth.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ZelRox
You cant use 2mwd on a frig on approach to gate. It does not work. So the nerf has no relevance on frigs.
Sorry I don't quite get what you mean.
You can activate 2 MWD's on a frigate whilst approaching a gate/station on Tranquility at the moment and it significantly reduces the amount of time it takes to jump/dock.
The Sloth.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:24:00 -
[23]
Most frigates actually slow down if you use 2 MWD's and let autpilot "approach you" to the gate.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:24:00 -
[24]
Most frigates actually slow down if you use 2 MWD's and let autpilot "approach you" to the gate.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:27:00 -
[25]
not gonna have any affect on my mission running at all
there are NO added benefits to dual MWD traveling except more cap and shield loss.
mwd + ab is fast enough and fine for any ship for just traveling. I hope your not dualing for combat missions......good luck if you are.
not to mention trying to mwd to a container to salvage loot.
will have no affect on mission runners as a whole, the extra 1/2 second you save on approach travel time is not worth the power loss for most.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.10.21 14:27:00 -
[26]
not gonna have any affect on my mission running at all
there are NO added benefits to dual MWD traveling except more cap and shield loss.
mwd + ab is fast enough and fine for any ship for just traveling. I hope your not dualing for combat missions......good luck if you are.
not to mention trying to mwd to a container to salvage loot.
will have no affect on mission runners as a whole, the extra 1/2 second you save on approach travel time is not worth the power loss for most.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 15:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: X'Alor
not gonna have any affect on my mission running at all
there are NO added benefits to dual MWD traveling except more cap and shield loss.
mwd + ab is fast enough and fine for any ship for just traveling. I hope your not dualing for combat missions......good luck if you are.
not to mention trying to mwd to a container to salvage loot.
will have no affect on mission runners as a whole, the extra 1/2 second you save on approach travel time is not worth the power loss for most.
I don't know about your playstyle, but I have several ships available to choose from depending upon the mission. I generally select the ship that enables me to complete the mission fastest - whether that be a Dual MWD Frigate, Dual MWD Cruiser, or Dual AB Indy for courier missions or a Single MWD Cruiser or Single MWD Battleship for combat.
I have just tested on Tranquility your theory regarding the use of a MWD and an AB being sufficient and it takes about 7-8 seconds longer to approach a stargate than with my Dual MWD Frigate. I tested this several times and I am afraid that it is not sufficient. There is already enough idle time whilst travelling and 7-8 seconds more, everytime you jump or dock soon adds up. If you don't mind the changes then you are entitled to your opinion, however, I prefer to actually play the game myself and not sit there waiting.
The Sloth.
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The Sloth
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Posted - 2004.10.21 15:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: X'Alor
not gonna have any affect on my mission running at all
there are NO added benefits to dual MWD traveling except more cap and shield loss.
mwd + ab is fast enough and fine for any ship for just traveling. I hope your not dualing for combat missions......good luck if you are.
not to mention trying to mwd to a container to salvage loot.
will have no affect on mission runners as a whole, the extra 1/2 second you save on approach travel time is not worth the power loss for most.
I don't know about your playstyle, but I have several ships available to choose from depending upon the mission. I generally select the ship that enables me to complete the mission fastest - whether that be a Dual MWD Frigate, Dual MWD Cruiser, or Dual AB Indy for courier missions or a Single MWD Cruiser or Single MWD Battleship for combat.
I have just tested on Tranquility your theory regarding the use of a MWD and an AB being sufficient and it takes about 7-8 seconds longer to approach a stargate than with my Dual MWD Frigate. I tested this several times and I am afraid that it is not sufficient. There is already enough idle time whilst travelling and 7-8 seconds more, everytime you jump or dock soon adds up. If you don't mind the changes then you are entitled to your opinion, however, I prefer to actually play the game myself and not sit there waiting.
The Sloth.
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Papolytic
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Posted - 2004.10.21 16:52:00 -
[29]
AB + MWD is no longer allowed on Shiva, so I'm guessing is no longer allowed period. There's a glitch in their implementation so that its order-dependent, but it'll be 'fixed' no doubt.
Travel time will be much greater as most realize, even non-combat related travel (whatever that is ;))
Papol
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Papolytic
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Posted - 2004.10.21 16:52:00 -
[30]
AB + MWD is no longer allowed on Shiva, so I'm guessing is no longer allowed period. There's a glitch in their implementation so that its order-dependent, but it'll be 'fixed' no doubt.
Travel time will be much greater as most realize, even non-combat related travel (whatever that is ;))
Papol
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