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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.13 08:38:00 -
[1]
I've been annoyed by this for a long time now so I'm gonna spill it finally.
In-game auctions are fail. Not necessarily because the system is inherently flawed (only a little bit), but because people's response to the system is flawed.
Why only a maximum one week running time? Item exchanges are 2 weeks max, why not auctions? Most market activity in Eve takes place in week-ends and catching 2 of them instead of 1 during the runtime of a contract would greatly improve sales.
Inaccurate remaining times. It's extremely annoying that buyers cannot see the exact end time of an auction, and to top it off, the current system is extremely inaccurate. I've seen an auction with 'less than an hour' and no new bids go on for three hours happily before finishing.
Why a minimum bid increment of 10%? This is the worst bit, and I'll explain why:
Player x has a mod to sell. The mod is worth approx. 100 mil ISK but the variance in current market orders is very small, and there are a dozen item exchange contracts up for between 95 and 105 mil. Player x thinks: I want to sell it, but not too low! So he makes an auction with start bid 90 mil ISK. First bid comes in, 90 mil. Second next bid has to be 99 mil isk minimum, and he will only get one if all the others below 100mil have sold out before. So either he loses a little bit of ISK because no one bids any higher, or he gets what he initially wanted but by then the price may have gone up and the problem simply moves to the next bidder. If you check a number of auctions, there are countless examples of this, and unfortunately it is keeping the amount of possible bids on many auctions stupidly small (most auctions end up with only 1 or 2 bids), it also keeps competition down and prices less flexible.
If everyone made auctions with very low start bids - 1 or 10 mil for example, to stimulate bidding because of the accompanying low bid increments this wouldn't happen, but people are too afraid to lose ISK it seems, because the majority of auctions has a very high start bid, and the problem is only prolonged by the relative short runtime of one week.
So, proposed changes:
*Extend run time options of auctions to include 10d and 14d
*Somehow make the end time more accurately visible for buyers..maybe not down to the second but at least better than what it is now
*Make the minimum bid increment a fixed value or percentage to be set by the seller
- Sok.
169 dead caps caught on video |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.13 17:59:00 -
[2]
Meanwhile, I'm doing my part to stimulate bidding!
169 dead caps caught on video |
ISit InStation
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Posted - 2009.09.13 18:35:00 -
[3]
firstly: did u write that long OP before or after u decided to crosspost?
secodly: I feel the ingame acutions are fine. I prefer the "mod is worth 100m so auction will start at 90m" autions over the "mod is worth 100 aution will start at 1m" becausw when I look at an auction I probably whant to buy the item(s) being auctioned.
So I think "Oh, this item is worth 100m and the aution starts at 90m, if i'm lucky i'll get it cheap but atleast I wont have much competition because driving the price up much would be stupid."
And not "wtf 1m lol.. I'm not bidding on that, there's gonna be like 100 other ppl bidding on it going "omg cheap", I'll never get it."
thirdly: Also why would you whant Longer auctions? Shorter if anything, ppl (or atleast I) generaly whant the item Now, preferably a couple minutes ago, not in 4 days or at some overpriced b/o.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:05:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
If everyone made auctions with very low start bids - 1 or 10 mil for example, to stimulate bidding because of the accompanying low bid increments this wouldn't happen, but people are too afraid to lose ISK it seems, because the majority of auctions has a very high start bid, and the problem is only prolonged by the relative short runtime of one week.
Is the 10% increment only 10% of the original bid start? Or 10% of the current bid.
If it is 10% of the current bid, then starting it at low bids would be fail because when it gets higher you still have that problem.
But otherwise, I agree, min increment should be allowed to be set by seller, but not too low. 0.01 ISK increment would be fail unless it was something like Trit that demanded it. I would say increments no lower than 1% or something, but that would be left up to CCP.
Post in the Assembly Hall to see what support changes would have.
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Rotnac
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:06:00 -
[5]
I'll agree to the min increment issue. Changing it to 1% of current bid price might be good. Or 1% of start bid price. You could even let people set their own, above some floor value.
However, I like max auction times of 1 week. As primarily an auction bidder, anything longer than a few days is frustrating. It delays you getting the item, and your isk can be tied up for awhile if you don't attempt to time it well.
Finally, the lack of a stated exact end time is to prevent bid sniping and such. Which is pretty good, in my opinion. So, I'd be against changing that too.
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:34:00 -
[6]
Minimum increment is 10% of the starting bid.
I never sell using auctions primarily because of that minimum increment. I will buy an auction if I can bid 5%-10% below the price I think I can sell it for. The next bid would put it over the market price so I usually get it and then I relist it as an item exchange.
Also most buyers of the stuff I deal in want it now, and don't want to wait for the auction to expire. But I suppose they might be fine for rare items where there is no clear market price. It is nice that auctions are visible thoughout the game, but is is a pain to bid on an auction in another region.
I would probably suggest lowering the minimum bid to 1 or 2% of the starting price and allow game-wide bidding. I think the one week maximum is fine though. But, I still would not expect them to be much more widely used.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 14/09/2009 17:46:41
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Is the 10% increment only 10% of the original bid start? Or 10% of the current bid.
It's 10% of start bid so it remains fixed throughout the auction. Also, this will be my first proposition when I make csm next term :)
Originally by: Rotnac
Finally, the lack of a stated exact end time is to prevent bid sniping and such. Which is pretty good, in my opinion. So, I'd be against changing that too.
I wouldn't want it to be exact - only more accurate than what it is now. So maybe add a 'less than 10 minutes' display message? (and make sure they're accurate!)
169 dead caps caught on video |
motomysz
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Inaccurate remaining times. It's extremely annoying that buyers cannot see the exact end time of an auction, and to top it off, the current system is extremely inaccurate. I've seen an auction with 'less than an hour' and no new bids go on for three hours happily before finishing.
If you understood how in-game auctions worked, I might feel like you were qualified to give suggestions on how to "fix" them. In-game auctions have a sniper rule built in that extends remaining time to an hour every time there's a bid in the final hour. That's why sometimes the display says 'less than an hour' for extended periods of time.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 14/09/2009 17:51:26
Originally by: motomysz
Originally by: Sokratesz
Inaccurate remaining times. It's extremely annoying that buyers cannot see the exact end time of an auction, and to top it off, the current system is extremely inaccurate. I've seen an auction with 'less than an hour' and no new bids go on for three hours happily before finishing.
If you understood how in-game auctions worked, I might feel like you were qualified to give suggestions on how to "fix" them. In-game auctions have a sniper rule built in that extends remaining time to an hour every time there's a bid in the final hour. That's why sometimes the display says 'less than an hour' for extended periods of time.
Learn to read:
Quote:
I've seen an auction with 'less than an hour' and no new bids go on for three hours happily before finishing.
169 dead caps caught on video |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.09.14 18:39:00 -
[10]
The 10% rule is great.
Before there were so many people bidding on them for the same purpose to not make it worth the time and effort, I made a ton of isk off people who screwed up their pricing so the "equilibrium" final price would be in that 10% zone but below what it should have been.
Also, aside from the whole market-segment aspect of it: if not for the 10% rule auction bidding would became the .01-isk PITA that market trading is.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.14 19:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mahke
Also, aside from the whole market-segment aspect of it: if not for the 10% rule auction bidding would became the .01-isk PITA that market trading is.
Obviously there should be a minimum (say, 1 % of start bid) but above that any value chosen by the seller should do.
169 dead caps caught on video |
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