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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.14 14:53:00 -
[1]
Looking back at my somewhat long history in game (rolled my toon in December of 2004) and everything that I do today in game as the dood in charge of most day-to-day operations of my corp, and XO overseeing all the Sturm eve corps, I realize that there's plenty of things I've learned in this game that I can apply to RL.
Leadership, delegations of duties, hiring decisions, personnel management, conflict resolution, negotiation (dealing with Alliance politics bull****) business (trying to make a damn buck in this game) and a multitude of other things.
Looking back at all of this, its kinda insane that this game involves all of this. No wonder my wife thinks this game is WAY to close to running a real-life corporation, minus the YARRING and exploding things (well, most corporations in the US, maybe in other countries thats a regular part of business  )
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~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer
Sturmgrenadier, Inc.
Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:04:00 -
[2]
Since getting involved in the production side of things I feel I have a much greater understanding of the whole market dynamics malarkey.
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SonOfMsquare
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:04:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: ChronoSphere
I realize that there's plenty of things I've learned in this game that I can apply to RL.
Well, no and yes, ...
I notice another familymember of mine, who is playing WoW a lot, certainly learned a number of these social skills (delegation, administration, getting people to *do* something even though you have little real authority). I am convinced the same applies to EvE; it's just as I only play occasionally in a philantropic sort of way, I have no experience, myself or by proxy, to prove it.
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Naj Ymoch
Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:05:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I learned how rare trust really is in a world where money is everything.
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Johnny Gurkha
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:13:00 -
[5]
I learnt not to orbit my neighbours and throw rocks at them, keep at range - don't orbit
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:25:00 -
[6]
I'll be putting EVE gaming experience on my CV.
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anubislambda
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:25:00 -
[7]
i learned that humanity will never get better, it will always be shooting itself, and will most likely wipe itself out before we leave the solar system
oh happy days
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Johnny Gurkha
I learnt not to orbit my neighbours and throw rocks at them, keep at range - don't orbit
/thread.
Thank you.
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Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:39:00 -
[9]
i have learned not to trust pirates lol 
x
Yay! Six months of defending! \o/ <3 to Abrazzar! |
Captain HappyChap
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Captain HappyChap on 14/09/2009 15:48:51
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i have learned not to trust pirates lol
x
Yeah, me 2, cos before eve i totally trusted RL pirates...
Also, unlike RL, corporations in eve dont involve Bureucracy, wish Eve would have risk assessments.
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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:49:00 -
[11]
I wouldn't know about putting "EVE Online Corp CEO" on your CV, but I'm sure there's been cases were people cited leadership positions in voluntary recreational organizations, why not a video game?
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~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer
Sturmgrenadier, Inc.
Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Captain HappyChap
Edited by: Captain HappyChap on 14/09/2009 15:48:51
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i have learned not to trust pirates lol
x
Yeah, me 2, cos before eve i totally trusted RL pirates...
Also, unlike RL, corporations in eve dont involve Bureucracy, wish Eve would have risk assessments.
I trust RL pirates more than i trust Companies.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: anubislambda
i learned that humanity will never get better, it will always be shooting itself, and will most likely wipe itself out before we leave the solar system
If only we could get rid of our war mongering leaders. The reason they always have to put so much effort into propaganda is because contrary to what they claim, humanity isn't inherantly warlike. The majority just want to live a boring happy life.
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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:06:00 -
[14]
I can has no thread-jacks? Please?
--------------
~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer
Sturmgrenadier, Inc.
Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Blane Xero
I trust RL pirates more than i trust Companies.
At least the pirates are predictable and easy to understand…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
CrAzY2012
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: CrAzY2012 on 14/09/2009 16:13:01
Being on topic, one useful thing I've learned pretty well is the order of the EM spectrum from using crystals :-).
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van Ice
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:16:00 -
[17]
Well, as someone who has hired many people in RL, running any large MMO clan/corp is clearly good experience.
Quoting it on the resume is questionable, but bringing it up in an interview would be more positive. Just make sure you have a good story about why it is good experience.
Any good "game" is part learning experience. This is why kids play games...
That being said, personally, I stay away from running large corps, etc. Too much like work. This is my hobby.
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CrAzY2012
Edited by: CrAzY2012 on 14/09/2009 16:13:01
Being on topic, one useful thing I've learned pretty well is the order of the EM spectrum from using crystals :-).
Too bad you now understand diffraction backwards...
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:22:00 -
[19]
Well I used eve as part of my psycological treatment to learn to take risks.. stil working on it. But indeed helped a bit to put inside the mind that taking risks is not always bad.
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ChronoSphere
I can has no thread-jacks? Please?
Sturmgrenadier Inc.! Why hello! I remember you guys.
Greetz to all the peeps who were in there back in the 3FA days... o/
I hope thats not thread-jacking 
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
New Eden Hardware Emporium
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:32:00 -
[21]
I see no reason why you shouldn't put a VERY brief note about your gaming/leadership experience in your CV under hobbies of course as it demonstrates the ability to delegate, lead, time management (in multiple time zones), fiscal responsibility - okay it's not real currency but it's still the only way to keep score in this game, and few people like being ripped off or short changed (much).
If there's ONE thing you must try NOT to do is to keep out too much enthusiasm for Eve at the expense of the role you're going for. Instead during the interview you can use it as a launching vehicle to go from in game to real life example, and if you're after a promotion you could be leading a corp/alliance of 200+ people ingame and currently managing a team much smaller. That example will enable you to say that your current position while fulfilling and enjoyable doesn't stretch you in a professional capacity as you've been leading these people in a voluntary role who don't need to turn up if they don't want to, but does because they enjoy the experience of working together.
Unlike this post however, keep it brief, concise and to the point.
Eve-online Industrial Organiser thread t1 & t2 batch manufacturing |
Haulerboi
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:40:00 -
[22]
From skills I learned about patience, things don't happen overnight but they pay off.
I don't know the rest of you but before this game, I would expend lots of RL money going out.
Now that I use most of my free time playing this game I have saved so much money I already paid off two formely maxed-out credit cards 
Yes, them RL Exotic Dancers cost money 
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N Ano
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:41:00 -
[23]
Its helped alot with my methamatics skills through the years
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:54:00 -
[24]
I've learned that I can run up to random people on the streets and toss a net on them, then run around them in circles threatening to pod their ass if they don't pay the ransom.
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ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:55:00 -
[25]
Anyone who processes applicants in RL professional jobs with hiring authority actually ever see or discuss in an interview MMO experiences and relation to RL job duties?
--------------
~Vice Admiral, Executive Officer
Sturmgrenadier, Inc.
Join Sturmgrenadier today! |
Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ChronoSphere
minus the YARRING and exploding things (well, most corporations in the US, maybe in other countries thats a regular part of business )
i don't know about that. i remember a coal mining corp advertising for counter sniper teams for a mine in appalachia. very long unpleasant strike at the mine.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/09/2009 17:00:43
It made me interested in the real life stock market.
I find economics boring but I still like investing money in stocks and see how it goes.
---
Originally by: Eve Forums
...you are going too fast, wait 5 minutes and try again...you are going too fast, wait 5 minutes and try again...you are going too fast, wait 5 minutes and try again...
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Sven Thomas
Gallente
The Argonauts
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ChronoSphere
Anyone who processes applicants in RL professional jobs with hiring authority actually ever see or discuss in an interview MMO experiences and relation to RL job duties?
Somewhat related...
I work for a University doing development/research in using Virtual Worlds as another resource in Distance Education. When I applied for the job, my experience in both World of Warcraft and EVE was considered an asset. It really wasn't the game experience itself that was considered valuable. From my employer's perspective, I have a fairly good understanding of the way people interact with virtual worlds and also how they interact with other players in the same experience.
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CrAzY2012
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:17:00 -
[29]
Edited by: CrAzY2012 on 14/09/2009 17:18:42
Originally by: Xing Fey
Too bad you now understand diffraction backwards...
Indeed =p.
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Captain HappyChap
Edited by: Captain HappyChap on 14/09/2009 15:48:51
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i have learned not to trust pirates lol
x
Yeah, me 2, cos before eve i totally trusted RL pirates...
Also, unlike RL, corporations in eve dont involve Bureucracy, wish Eve would have risk assessments.
I trust RL pirates more than i trust Companies.
Mr Epeen observation:
Big companies are the new real life pirates 
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Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:48:00 -
[31]
ThatĘs how I got my current job. My boss plays Eve also so when I told him I had been playing for 6 years including the Beta, he hired me as a QA tester.
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Bluebeard
Minmatar
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:18:00 -
[32]
I learnt that if somebody is being too competitive in what I'm trying to do, I can always find somebody who will murder them for cash 
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lone Gunman
ThatĘs how I got my current job. My boss plays Eve also so when I told him I had been playing for 6 years including the Beta, he hired me as a QA tester.
Surprised he didn't ask you to pay to work there, since you've been doing the same thing for 6 years already...
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Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:35:00 -
[34]
I learned that I am not safe in large cities with lots of police roaming the streets. Safer, but not 100% safe.
I learned a lot about trade and economics and have noticed some major mistakes my manager has been making at my job.
I learned that sympathy and kindness are rare among strangers and not to be expected nor counted on.
I learned that a fight is only honorable when it's called that by the winner and his five friends. The dirty side of the fight also gets conveniently swept under the rug by the winner.
___________________________________
Originally by: Kortne
EVE is an amazing game, but other players ruin it.
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Mr M
Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:46:00 -
[35]
IBM made a report a couple of years about how today's raid leaders will be tomorrow's managers and group leaders in real life. (Can't find it right now, google it.)
And at the side of managing and delegating I've learned about economical terms like IPOs and Ponzi scheme :-) And I believe the people hanging around Jita may become quite good day traders if they got the initial foundings from someone.
Eve Tribune|EVEgeek|Firebrand Radio |
Lord Bentley
Bentley Group
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Posted - 2009.09.14 21:16:00 -
[36]
Yes i learned not to trust strangers
Respectfully,
Lord Bentley
Bentley Group
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Mr M
Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects
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Posted - 2009.09.14 21:37:00 -
[37]
Found the IBM report on online gamers. It's a bit dry but still interesting
Eve Tribune|EVEgeek|Firebrand Radio |
Voridor Malevolence
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.14 22:22:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 14/09/2009 22:23:16
ah forget it
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Usagi Tsukino
Miyazaki Zaibatsu
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.09.14 22:48:00 -
[39]
In the spirit of the OP;
I have learned how to use spreadsheets (Excel), and EVE has actually caused me to learn more about business operations, economics, profit and loss, etc.. It's also encouraged me to continue my education and learning regarding Photoshop and some of cool corp/alliance websites and the killboards have encouraged me to begin my education in PHP.
In the spirit of the threadjack;
It's made me thank God that RL police aren't (usually) as heavy handed as CONCORD. (10 OVER THE LIMIT!?! PWN HIS ASS!!!!!)
---
Usagi Tsukino // Miyazaki Zaibatsu
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SHOCKZORS
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Posted - 2009.09.14 22:54:00 -
[40]
Since joining I have learned that valuable life lesson we should all know -> Caught in lo/nosec (cop pulls you over) -> Ship dies (he takes you out of car) -> WARP WARP WARP (Run away ASAFP)
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:47:00 -
[41]
gasp... serious answers.
Guess I'll join in.
Don't buy something till you really need it.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2009.09.15 00:44:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kolatha on 15/09/2009 00:47:47
Originally by: Sven Thomas
Originally by: ChronoSphere
Anyone who processes applicants in RL professional jobs with hiring authority actually ever see or discuss in an interview MMO experiences and relation to RL job duties?
Somewhat related...
I work for a University doing development/research in using Virtual Worlds as another resource in Distance Education. When I applied for the job, my experience in both World of Warcraft and EVE was considered an asset. It really wasn't the game experience itself that was considered valuable. From my employer's perspective, I have a fairly good understanding of the way people interact with virtual worlds and also how they interact with other players in the same experience.
From the point of view of someone who was on the hiring side at one time.
Outside of specific employment opportunities that are game related you will find that the vast majority of employers will instantly bin your resume if you use on-line gaming as a point of reference for any skill set you claim to have.
When it comes down to it even just putting your gaming down as a hobby is seen as a negative by many employers and will often be the tipping point they use to choose a different applicant.
This is because of the stigma of social ineptitude and the perceived unreliability that is associated with the "typical" gamer. Many employers, the majority who don't game themselves, see someone who is dedicated enough to a game to take the extra time to run something, like a guild or a player corp, as a sign that that person will not be able to focus on their job sufficiently as they will be more concerned during the day about online events. There is some precedent to this opinion and the advent of social networking tools like twitter and facebook have done nothing to help the situation.
Yes, you will find the odd person who has gained a job because of their online skills or simply because they play the game and can associate someone who holds some degree of power in the final employment decision. You will also find the occasional employer who understands that there is some value to the leadership skills learned in games, but these are by and far the minority. For every person who has gained a job because of their reference to games as a source of relevant skills you will probably find a hundred more who have missed out on job opportunities for the same reason.
You may be tempted to put down your gaming as a hobby on your resume but it is safer, and better for your chances, to not do so.
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Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
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Posted - 2009.09.15 00:46:00 -
[43]
This'll be one most people won't expect.
Public speaking!
..lolwut?
I find myself FC'ing quite a bit, and ocne you think about it, you are putting anything up to hundreds of manhours worth of effort on the line, of many other people. What you say while in command will dictate if they win or loose.
After that, getting up infront of 20ish people to read off a page ain't so bad!
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Valorous Bob
Locusts.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 01:05:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Valorous Bob on 15/09/2009 01:07:06
Originally by: Naj Ymoch
Yeah, I learned how rare trust really is in a world where money is everything.
omfg this.
Although i think EVE kinda ruined me in a way becuase i have serious issues with trusting people in RL. 
EDIT:
Originally by: Mr M
Found the IBM report on online gamers. It's a bit dry but still interesting
Thank you, this articule sounds interesting.
_______________________________________________
KILL THE TITAN: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1175042 |
Redflare
Caldari
Lompoc-Amish Industrial Labs
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Posted - 2009.09.15 03:25:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Redflare on 15/09/2009 03:25:18
Spam Works ;).
That, and empty promises, insurance fraud, and investment fraud are perfectly viable sources of income!
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Jaden Stark
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Posted - 2009.09.15 03:37:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Jaden Stark on 15/09/2009 03:37:17
Originally by: Kolatha
Edited by: Kolatha on 15/09/2009 00:47:47
From the point of view of someone who was on the hiring side at one time.
Outside of specific employment opportunities that are game related you will find that the vast majority of employers will instantly bin your resume if you use on-line gaming as a point of reference for any skill set you claim to have.
When it comes down to it even just putting your gaming down as a hobby is seen as a negative by many employers and will often be the tipping point they use to choose a different applicant.
This is because of the stigma of social ineptitude and the perceived unreliability that is associated with the "typical" gamer. Many employers, the majority who don't game themselves, see someone who is dedicated enough to a game to take the extra time to run something, like a guild or a player corp, as a sign that that person will not be able to focus on their job sufficiently as they will be more concerned during the day about online events. There is some precedent to this opinion and the advent of social networking tools like twitter and facebook have done nothing to help the situation.
Yes, you will find the odd person who has gained a job because of their online skills or simply because they play the game and can associate someone who holds some degree of power in the final employment decision. You will also find the occasional employer who understands that there is some value to the leadership skills learned in games, but these are by and far the minority. For every person who has gained a job because of their reference to games as a source of relevant skills you will probably find a hundred more who have missed out on job opportunities for the same reason.
You may be tempted to put down your gaming as a hobby on your resume but it is safer, and better for your chances, to not do so.
I understand that. However, I was specifically asked if I had any experience with "Virtual Worlds."
EDIT: Woohoo for posting on an alt...
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.15 03:37:00 -
[47]
I don't think I have learned a single thing in eve.
leadership is easy, it is giving a damn that is hard.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.09.15 04:21:00 -
[48]
I'm wayyyyy more careful about possible scams now than I ever was before I played EVE.
I was pretty susceptible before, but now I'm extremely cautious.
---------------------------------
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Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.15 07:47:00 -
[49]
Let's see:
Train Learning Skills first.
Trust no one.
I no longer fear Death or Public Speaking.
It's only a crime if you get caught. The richest personalities are tied to crime.
Spit in their face when they ask for money to spare your life.
Mercy is a privilege of the Strong.
I learned about things called "Investors" and "Excel" and "nerfing". Scary.
Practiced my Sun Tzu teachings.
Money solves most problems. Violence solves all others.
Robot drones will conquer mankind, the treacherous bastards!
I have seen economic/military entities crumble under their own horrid agendas in the last few years. Failcascading comes to mind, maybe Pres. Obama will get some free time to play EVE. \o/
You can trademark common words like Edge(TM) and Soon(TM)
Insurance fraud. Do it.
Wow, I haven't learned a damn thing in EVE.
7 |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:40:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 15/09/2009 09:40:10
EVE learned me that when I have the free choice between being an anonymous ass or not, I feel better when choosing not to.
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:53:00 -
[51]
Me have lernt 2 speell teh english. Relly whell!
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.09.15 10:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: anubislambda
i learned that humanity will never get better, it will always be shooting itself
If only we could get rid of our war mongering leaders...
...The majority just want to live a boring happy life.
perhaps. one could say you are subdued into a boring happy life because it is societies only way to keep you from acting on your violent nature?
as for skills learned in the game being applicable to RL, I think that is a stretch. as was said, definitely nothing you want to put on a resume.
sure, you may be able to hone a particular skill you already poses but the environment is limited at best and far FAR removed from any interaction that would be required to (successfully) run or work in a business, maintain a healthy circle of friends or asking that pretty red head out.
it's the same as saying an MMO = social interaction. Technically? sure. Realistically? Apples and oranges.
if someone excels at something in game you will likely find it's because they already had developed that skill in RL. I don't think it works very well the other way around. It's possible, but i'm certain its the exception not the rule.
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Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r |
mr passie
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:27:00 -
[53]
Eve introduced me to this wonderful thing called trolling.
I practice that in real life too now.
So far every job i've taken the secretaries have threatened to throw me out of the window *
*the only exception to this was one job where I worked on ground floor, but they generally threw things at me.
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Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:30:00 -
[54]
the gaem has taught me to speel.
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Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
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Posted - 2009.09.15 12:43:00 -
[55]
Just one thing...
It's all good until you realize there is a distinct difference between doing that in front of the computer and doing it in reality.
For me, it has been the other way around. What i learned during my time in the military i have applied to all games where i have led my team(s) to victory.
But maybe, in your case, it works. How would i know? All i know is that whatever i have "learned" from games hasn't been applicable to RL. All i know is, playing games makes you happy and there are a few things (factual and practical) that you pick up along the way that help you in your real life.
But leadership comes naturally, which means. If you are born a leader, you will (most likely, not always) become a leader!
Of course the opposite can be said too. Even if you aren't born a leader you could become one but that will only end in misery and pain...
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.15 21:38:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 15/09/2009 21:40:46
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 15/09/2009 21:39:07
Yes, trust nobody.
Before EvE I allways helped other players when they asked. I even gave em ingame Money or let them test items.
After all the scam, junk and idiots I found in EvE I don't do it anymore at no game.
And I did not bought Leman Borther as my Banker offert them to me.
So EvE open my eyes and shows me: Humans are evil born.
If there is one record EvE holds then it's the pur number of a..h... and CCP want them to play this game.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
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Yorlock
Caldari
Farmer Killers
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.09.16 07:36:00 -
[57]
EVE has really improved my skills as a bouncer.
All the NPC corp hugging , salvage theiving smack talkers have lowered my tollerance and quickened my rage response times.
As a result, I have found I am much quicker and more accurate when taking a baseball bat to those drunken smacktards that refuses to take their hands off a 'dancer' at the high class establishment I do security work for.
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NyteTyger
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.16 08:03:00 -
[58]
I learned very quickly that the easiest way to make money is to sell characters. So, mark me down as learning... Slavery?
Oh, and gotta say 'Hi SG' on a personal note - This makes it official, every single MMO I've played SG is there 
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Zeredek
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Posted - 2009.09.17 20:18:00 -
[59]
Always update your body and insure your cars.
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