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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:01:00 - [1] Hillarious. But as you pointed makes rockets utterly useless. Hope their fix will come along with Dominion.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.15 22:07:00 - [2] Agreed, 15% may be too much. I like idea of its reduction to 5-10% per level and adding slight web speed reduction resistance.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:01:00 - [3] Speaking in average numbers AFs will be 45% faster with 15%/lvl bonus. Huh, maybe it's not that much - but still awesome for survival. However, it still can be easily countered by neuts... so new AFs are not gonna be immortal.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 07:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Lee Dalton Interesting. When will the Jaguar/Wolf be receiving their 7.5% bonus tracking per level? They are not interceptors. And - which bonus you'd like to get replaced with tracking bonus? Here's some spreadsheet calculations on how this boost will affect AFs:
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 07:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 07:22:18 I'd reduce speed bonus to 10%/lvl and gave them 5% web resistance per level. 5% may sound like it's too low, but due to current web mechanics impact will be significant (eg 75% faster under dual 60% webs, 225% faster under single 90% web - when comparing AF with 25% web res and w/o it).
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 07:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 07:22:18 I'd reduce speed bonus to 10%/lvl and gave them 5% web resistance per level. 5% may sound like it's too low, but due to current web mechanics impact will be significant (eg 75% faster under dual 60% webs, 225% faster under single 90% web - when comparing AF with 25% web res and w/o it). This will still end an entire class of interceptors. A reduction to web effects would be even worse than the 15% speed bonus. When was the last time you did a close range tackle and didn't get immediately scrammed and webbed? Speed buffs on the AF just don't make sense. This change would force me to abandon my inties for the AF if I want to stay in a frigate and actually be competitive. I guess you as tackler will be disappointed by AFs, who still has worse speed/signature ratio, much slower and unable to tackle outside heavy neut range. Besides, not each and every ship has scram and web. Personally, i'm not going to switch to AF even if they get 5% web resistance per level.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 08:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 08:15:48 Originally by: Cpt Branko With a cheap complex AB my Jaguar, heated, will be going 3km/s on a afterburner. Not only it's second only to a interceptor in speed, practically unstoppable by webs, but actual small guns will not be able to track it in orbit If you're stupid enough to orbit small targets at full throttle - it's your prob. Learn how tracking works and learn how to use this knowledge on the battlefield. Originally by: Mira O'karr why would i fly anything cruiser size after this boost? Because cruiser-sized vessels have fat ass combined with good ewar capabilities or long range. Frigates can't offer you such mix.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 08:30:00 - [8] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 08:33:01 Originally by: Cpt Branko It means I can out-track targets of equal size, trivially. It means if I decide to tackle you in one, I can just lolspeedtank you until cavalry arrives and even fitting small guns wouldn't help you, and seeing how any AF is going to shrug off a pack of lights as long as it has the brains not to do it in scoop range, well... you get it. You can do it with an interceptor @ 35 km orbit atm (36 km - overheated t2 dis on tackling inty). Even AN neuts won't help you (and they may help in case with AFs). Originally by: Cpt Branko At least interceptors generally have a limited time available when tackling due to Warrior IIs and a medium gun will hit them now and then in 20-24km orbits. The AF is now 11ty billion times more flexible for a minor difference in speed. Did you ever try to kill stiletto with MSE using warriors before enemy gang arrives? :o Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez Also, what about T1 frigs? I know, 1on1 is dead ... but somehow i get a lot figate sized solo fights recently. Would it still be viable to engage an AF in a Rifter, Claw or Taranis? Inside scram range - no, AFs are going to be kings inside it. Chances are only using MWD and operating at 15+ km, using long-range weaponry.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 08:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Cpt Branko (and tracking wise, is a larger bonus then interceptors have) Not true. Stiletto with MSE and catalyzed mwd - 3730/86 = 43.4, Jaguar with t2 AB and MSE - 1506/41 = 36.7, wolf - 1418/33 = 43. Both are worse than stiletto's 43.4, and malediction/ares have a way better speed/sig ratio. Adding nanos/overdrives doesn't change situation as they change base speed by the same percentage for all ships. Adding gang modules or zor hyper-link will make situation even better for stiletto - it gets much more from bonuses to mwd/ab boost than afs.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 09:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon Those aren't the inties that would be effected by this change as they are long range tacklers with bonuses to range (though they may be used less on ships smaller than BS and Caps with this buff to AF) and only ever use a mwd. As such the argument is meaningless and simply an attempted "red herring". The issue is close range tacklers/dog fighters, ie the Taranis, Claw, Crusader, and Crow. They're 'combat' interceptors, not all of them are close range (did you ever heard of railranis, standard crow, beamsader?). They are not close-range tacklers (even tackle inties do it better), what they do is just some amount of damage + speed. AFs are gonna be close-range tacklers, 'combat' inties - anti-long-tacklers and probably anti-AFs (if tackled by AF ship will help a bit - with warriors, web, etc).

Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 09:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon Atleast this has a valid argument contained here in. My question to you would be what do you scram with when faced with a mwd hac/interdictor/destroyer or even AF? 95% of time i'm solo'ing in crusader. There're some ways to kill each of them, depending on your and enemy's setup. If i don't think that i can win i just won't attack it (e.g. MWD pulsader has little to no chances vs AB AF even atm). Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon With the changes to the AF you wouldn't think that the combat role would shift to the AF? No. Their speed is still not high enough to catch long-range tacklers. Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon And the long range "combat" inty is the exception, not the rule. Not true. Crows are combat inties and they use standards more often than rockets.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 09:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon The one time I ran into a mwd "pulsader" it melted to my ab "blasteranis" and yes, I scrammed and webbed him. When we need to slow down a mwd ship it's my Taranis that goes out and scrams. We do this because it's faster, has better tracking, and can speed tank more effectively than the af can speed/armor tank. AB interceptors are not true interceptors, they're damn reatrds. I never duel with another inty if he doesn't have MWD while i'm in pulsader - ab gives huge tactical advantage in scram range. Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon I know my Taranis can't even come close to catching my Ares, so it wouldn't really change much there as it'd still be long range tackling long range. Taranis is slowest inty, but even using it you can catch other ceptor. Just don't stick to 'SAY NO TO NANOS AND OVERS' setups, use overload and few manual maneuvering and you'll pin most of long-range tacklers down. Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon Still the exception, the other 3 similar inties are used far more for close combat, not sniping, and we all know the the "Blasteranis" is a favorite among inty pilots. So light crow exception, railranis, beamsader are exceptions... nice, huh. I won't argue with such 'argumentation'.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 10:07:00 - [13] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 10:09:07 Originally by: Xenophanes Colophon If it gives a huge tactical advantage how is it "****ed"? Also if you operate within scram range how would an ab fit be "**ed"? Because iterceptor must be fast - otherwise it's just slowpoke. I lol at these alot when catch them when flying beamsader. **ed inties deserve **ed death. Originally by:** Xenophanes Colophon I overload all the time to close/maintain distance so I can't really argue with that, but if the long range tackler is actually paying attention wouldn't you expect it to be quite a bit harder to run down? Yep, he also want to survive the battle. Noone gives you 100% guarantee that you'll kill given long-range tackler, but to me it seems that chances are higher than 90% when using pulsader.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 11:11:29 Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 11:10:33 Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 11:08:55 Originally by: Deva Blackfire - being mostly immune to webs (single web dropping jag from 1500 to ~1000m/s is NOT gonna stop it, 2 webs = ~500m/s after stacking penalties, 3 webs ~350m/s - this is FAST) Not true. 1 web - 1500 -> 600, 2 webs - 286, 3 webs - 188. Originally by: Deva Blackfire - being immune to med/large sized ships - some might say its good but tbh the ONLY ship that will be able to kill AFs now (from med sized ones) will be curse and ishtar with neut. if AF is injected? it can kill all t1 and t2 cruisers and BCs. even against battleships its win unless it meets domi - here its the same case as with curse/ishtar Not true. Arazu/lachesis with long-range dis, rails and MWD, rapier/huginn with artillery, 1-2 webs and MWD, pilgrim, falcon/rook just put AF into permajamm. Just keep out of scram range when you have long-range weapons. Rapier with 2 webs and MWD should be able to escape from AB+scram assault - it's just faster. Originally by: Deva Blackfire - being immune to small sized ships - nothing will be able to "solo" fend off AF except for other AF. like above: if ceptor gets close to actually web it, its MWD will die and ceptor will either die a horrible death or AF will just get out from his range Not true. Sentinel, and also Kitsune. Beamsader with a decent setup should handle most of AFs even with speed bonus. Any other long-range MWD+disruptor AF should be able to keep outside of scram range. Originally by: Deva Blackfire also its hilarious that anti-fast/small ship huginn (TP/web bonus = counter to small and fast ships amrite?) will be just obliterated by ANY AF. it already has hard time fighting them and with AB speed boost? easy kills All i can say is 'lol'. How do you plan to kill huginn with AF? It will hit you just fine because of comparable speeds. Originally by: Snorre Sturlasson But no AF should take over the role of a Taranis for instance. It's Taranis who took the role of AF.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 11:45:19 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ummm. You know that "winning" = killing af. Not forcing it to disengage. it depends. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Arazu with rails will die to AF (af will just close in and kill razu). Agree, most arguable case, but arazu with MWD has speed which equals (or slightly bigger) to speed of revamped AFs with AB. It just needs to keep MWD running and AF is unlikely to break into 10 km. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Falcon/rook can permajam it and? Missiles will not hurt 600m/s (one web) AF at all. Rook has somewhat nice damage. Not sure if it will helpto kill AF though... in the end of the day he has initiative - he tackles AF. He can try killing him, if he has no success with that - he can call friends or leave fight. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Rapier/razu if it actually ends within 15km of AF is dead meat. One hit with scrambler and AF suddenly is faster (hugs/raps mount 2 webs = ~286m/s which is much faster than rapier hull). Rapier has 240 speed with Navi V, Huginn 260. AF has 286. Rapier and huginn can double-click to random direction and enjoy with result - angular speed will be almost 0. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Overheat. This is enough to kill all under 20km ships. Sentinel can tickle it but in fact most AFs can kill it drones and just catch ship (if injected) or move away and get out. Most sentinels will cap as soon as enemy ship caps out. And guess who has more EHP? How would TD'd AF w/o tracking bonus kill drones? Even sabres can't do that with 10% bonus. Under 2-3 neuts of sentinel you won't get enough cap for AB until it's out of cap boostes. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Kitsune sure can permajam but again: cant kill. Rockets dont work vs 600m/s AB frigs (and thats 1 web i doubt any kitsune packs 2-3 webs). Just like falcon/rook. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Long range AF = status quo. AF being AF counter is like nano being nano counter. So current AFs with MWD are nano? About which nano era are we talking? I thought that 'signature-tanking' nano - AF with additional boost to AB. Originally by: Deva Blackfire The same way you kill huginn with taranis or 2 other ceptors. Killing it before it kills you. And scrambler+AB on frig = death for huginn. You never dealt with minmatar recons using frigates. Because: 1) Approach is completely different 2) Currently interceptor can't kill huginn in pure 1v1 if skills of both characters are equal - too much damage, it can handle arti-apier at most 3) Unlike arazu/lach, rapier slows down AB frigates w/o any probs. I don't see any way to kill not-noobish huginn or rapier with AF. Besides, it should be REALLY hard to break into 10 km range as huginn has 40-50 km web.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 14:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Trimutius III Please add some Rocket velocity and/or flight time bonus to Vengeance. It's just hard to use when even Javelins fly 13-15 km (with 4-5 lvl skills) or +5 km with rigs, sorry but add at least same bonus as malediction has... http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Malediction Which of them?
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:43:00 - [17] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 16/09/2009 15:45:53 Originally by: Cpt Branko Well, now it is close to getting a MWD for free, which IS imbalanced. MWD is still as much a twice faster (well, ~80-90% faster).

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