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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.10.22 13:59:00 -
[1]
Elsewhere on these boards a flamefest rages regarding CA's official response to the Caldari race incident. Many anti-CA players are posting (there and elsewhere) effectively asking CCP to have the Caldari state take action against CA.
Obviously, motives are mixed. Some are pure RP and I respect that. Others are just carrying on their war against CA by other means. Is this a legitimate tactic?
If it is, is it legitimate because the forums are part of the game?
What other out of game tactics are legitimate?
I am happy to declare my interest. I have high Caldari (and various Caldari corp) faction standing and would be unhappy to lose out on that standing by reason of the actions of a Gallente (albeit a Gallente in CA), whereas CA members of other races would not lose out in a similar way.
I refer you to Stavros' sig.
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.10.22 13:59:00 -
[2]
Elsewhere on these boards a flamefest rages regarding CA's official response to the Caldari race incident. Many anti-CA players are posting (there and elsewhere) effectively asking CCP to have the Caldari state take action against CA.
Obviously, motives are mixed. Some are pure RP and I respect that. Others are just carrying on their war against CA by other means. Is this a legitimate tactic?
If it is, is it legitimate because the forums are part of the game?
What other out of game tactics are legitimate?
I am happy to declare my interest. I have high Caldari (and various Caldari corp) faction standing and would be unhappy to lose out on that standing by reason of the actions of a Gallente (albeit a Gallente in CA), whereas CA members of other races would not lose out in a similar way.
I refer you to Stavros' sig.
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:11:00 -
[3]
It's alegitimate tactic imo since these boards are largely a propaganda tool used in the ingame conflicts.
Just like ingame tools do not allow a high enough level of coordination, which problem is solved by using a third party program like Teamspeak, the game software itself does not provide good channels for mass-communication over time.
You can only jin something like a global channel and see whats being said as long as you are in it. Sadly enough tehre is no tool ingame that could fill the function these boards fill. And since propaganda is not against the EULA, these boards have become an extension of the game.
I like it actually. Conflicts should be total, it may still be game (which is why we all adhere to the EULA as our ruleset for playing it), that means that the tools that ARE allowed should be used in my opinion.
Influencing the storyline is exactly what we need in this game. So by all meams go ahead, if I could get the Caldari state to wardeclare my corp I'd sure as hell do it.
Oh, and people should let go of the distinction between out of character and in character behaviour. Everything is in-character to some extent, so thereare only degrees of being in character, there is no out of character behaviour except the discussion of game mechanics itself.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:11:00 -
[4]
It's alegitimate tactic imo since these boards are largely a propaganda tool used in the ingame conflicts.
Just like ingame tools do not allow a high enough level of coordination, which problem is solved by using a third party program like Teamspeak, the game software itself does not provide good channels for mass-communication over time.
You can only jin something like a global channel and see whats being said as long as you are in it. Sadly enough tehre is no tool ingame that could fill the function these boards fill. And since propaganda is not against the EULA, these boards have become an extension of the game.
I like it actually. Conflicts should be total, it may still be game (which is why we all adhere to the EULA as our ruleset for playing it), that means that the tools that ARE allowed should be used in my opinion.
Influencing the storyline is exactly what we need in this game. So by all meams go ahead, if I could get the Caldari state to wardeclare my corp I'd sure as hell do it.
Oh, and people should let go of the distinction between out of character and in character behaviour. Everything is in-character to some extent, so thereare only degrees of being in character, there is no out of character behaviour except the discussion of game mechanics itself.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:13:00 -
[5]
In my opinion, them urging the State to action on IC forums is perfectly fine. You can reasonably assume that the RP entities involved read the forums (as they're a part of the FTL network).
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:13:00 -
[6]
In my opinion, them urging the State to action on IC forums is perfectly fine. You can reasonably assume that the RP entities involved read the forums (as they're a part of the FTL network).
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:17:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Discorporation
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members
i was thinking a -5 standing to all CA corps from the Caladri State would be interesting response from the Caldari state. 
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Discorporation
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members
i was thinking a -5 standing to all CA corps from the Caladri State would be interesting response from the Caldari state.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Lallante
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:27:00 -
[9]
CCP wouldnt do anything that will screw over our gameplay without something to balance it.
Im sure we would take -5 standing hits in return for a full set of The best named and tech 2 loot each
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:27:00 -
[10]
CCP wouldnt do anything that will screw over our gameplay without something to balance it.
Im sure we would take -5 standing hits in return for a full set of The best named and tech 2 loot each
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lallante
CCP wouldnt do anything that will screw over our gameplay without something to balance it.
Im sure we would take -5 standing hits in return for a full set of The best named and tech 2 loot each
You're wrong. You're not dealing with CCP here, you're dealing with the Caldari State. A vindictive emotionally repressed society where every factor is subject to the most control the State can muster. Any and all damage to it's credibility will earn their ire.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lallante
CCP wouldnt do anything that will screw over our gameplay without something to balance it.
Im sure we would take -5 standing hits in return for a full set of The best named and tech 2 loot each
You're wrong. You're not dealing with CCP here, you're dealing with the Caldari State. A vindictive emotionally repressed society where every factor is subject to the most control the State can muster. Any and all damage to it's credibility will earn their ire.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 22/10/2004 14:37:37
Originally by: Discorporation
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members
Unfortunately it's all (CA chest thumping etc) pretty much poking a tiger with a stick through cage bars and acting tough because one knows the tiger won't ever get out of the cage. The minute it does, the /petitions about "unfair alteration of gameplay" start to roll.
Shallows whole thing down a lot, tbh. :/
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 22/10/2004 14:37:37
Originally by: Discorporation
Now, I personally would love to see the State take negative actions against the CA. Refusing to apologise and essentially telling the State to 'bring it' (lol, again) should result in negative action taken towards the CA, its corps and its members. ALL its members
Unfortunately it's all (CA chest thumping etc) pretty much poking a tiger with a stick through cage bars and acting tough because one knows the tiger won't ever get out of the cage. The minute it does, the /petitions about "unfair alteration of gameplay" start to roll.
Shallows whole thing down a lot, tbh. :/
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:35:00 -
[15]
I am hesitant to sound all flamey but since when has any CA member had an issue with the forums being used as a means of propaganda?
You guys practically invented it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:35:00 -
[16]
I am hesitant to sound all flamey but since when has any CA member had an issue with the forums being used as a means of propaganda?
You guys practically invented it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Tarm
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:36:00 -
[17]
I'd say let the CA get a little taste of RP (i.e. lower standings with Caldari State). A lot of this game is roleplay, when you try and derail the roleplay for others I think the proper response would be a roleplay attack or standings change (read: fitting "punishment").
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Tarm
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:36:00 -
[18]
I'd say let the CA get a little taste of RP (i.e. lower standings with Caldari State). A lot of this game is roleplay, when you try and derail the roleplay for others I think the proper response would be a roleplay attack or standings change (read: fitting "punishment").
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:37:00 -
[19]
They did that before, when Evol brought it, so you're probably right 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:37:00 -
[20]
They did that before, when Evol brought it, so you're probably right
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:39:00 -
[21]
I understand your positions. It just seems to me "unbalanced", because of the differing racial make up of CA.
From a gaming perspective (fairness to all players involved) any action against CA should be co-ordinated by Concord. All Empire races should take the same action (if any) against the loose cannon which is CA.
Otherwise, a Gallente's actions will adversely affect Caldari members of CA, but not the non-Caldari members of CA, particularly.
Of course, if they are to take such action, all pirate corps should get the same (Evolution for example). Similarly with Minmatar freedom fighters feckin' off the Ammar, would Concord put up with it?
What's sauce for the goose...
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:39:00 -
[22]
I understand your positions. It just seems to me "unbalanced", because of the differing racial make up of CA.
From a gaming perspective (fairness to all players involved) any action against CA should be co-ordinated by Concord. All Empire races should take the same action (if any) against the loose cannon which is CA.
Otherwise, a Gallente's actions will adversely affect Caldari members of CA, but not the non-Caldari members of CA, particularly.
Of course, if they are to take such action, all pirate corps should get the same (Evolution for example). Similarly with Minmatar freedom fighters feckin' off the Ammar, would Concord put up with it?
What's sauce for the goose...
Severe
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Mewley
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:45:00 -
[23]
Ever thought that CA might be doing EXACTLY what CCP want and told them to do, and this will now be developed into a story arc...?
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Mewley
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:45:00 -
[24]
Ever thought that CA might be doing EXACTLY what CCP want and told them to do, and this will now be developed into a story arc...?
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Tarm
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Severe McCald
I understand your positions. It just seems to me "unbalanced", because of the differing racial make up of CA.
From a gaming perspective (fairness to all players involved) any action against CA should be co-ordinated by Concord. All Empire races should take the same action (if any) against the loose cannon which is CA.
Otherwise, a Gallente's actions will adversely affect Caldari members of CA, but not the non-Caldari members of CA, particularly.
Of course, if they are to take such action, all pirate corps should get the same (Evolution for example). Similarly with Minmatar freedom fighters feckin' off the Ammar, would Concord put up with it?
What's sauce for the goose...
Severe
The Amarrian/Minmatar conflict is sanctioned by Concord and is, therefore, beyond their ability to control. Concord does not have any say in the race because they do not govern 0.0 space. The attack, while "legal," was an attack against the ideals of the Caldari State, hence the negative standing towards CA (implemented in shiva I suppose).
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Tarm
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Posted - 2004.10.22 14:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Severe McCald
I understand your positions. It just seems to me "unbalanced", because of the differing racial make up of CA.
From a gaming perspective (fairness to all players involved) any action against CA should be co-ordinated by Concord. All Empire races should take the same action (if any) against the loose cannon which is CA.
Otherwise, a Gallente's actions will adversely affect Caldari members of CA, but not the non-Caldari members of CA, particularly.
Of course, if they are to take such action, all pirate corps should get the same (Evolution for example). Similarly with Minmatar freedom fighters feckin' off the Ammar, would Concord put up with it?
What's sauce for the goose...
Severe
The Amarrian/Minmatar conflict is sanctioned by Concord and is, therefore, beyond their ability to control. Concord does not have any say in the race because they do not govern 0.0 space. The attack, while "legal," was an attack against the ideals of the Caldari State, hence the negative standing towards CA (implemented in shiva I suppose).
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olyyyyy
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Posted - 2004.10.22 15:25:00 -
[27]
i would have gladly helped Lallente to kill Caldari infidels.
However since it was some internal CA idea... Since it was executed only by a CA member with only other CA members knowing about it, since CA members supported this action afterwards... Well obviously this is going further than a Gallente/Caldari "skirmish". It's a CA vs Caldari State skirmish. The Caldari State should act as a state and not as an entity controlled by CCP 
That would mean sanctions against CA until they apologize and provide an indemnity to podded pilots
People asking on forums for sanctions against CA are right, they are just asking to CCP to roleplay on what happened. I'm quite agree with discorporation here.
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
olyyyyy
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Posted - 2004.10.22 15:25:00 -
[28]
i would have gladly helped Lallente to kill Caldari infidels.
However since it was some internal CA idea... Since it was executed only by a CA member with only other CA members knowing about it, since CA members supported this action afterwards... Well obviously this is going further than a Gallente/Caldari "skirmish". It's a CA vs Caldari State skirmish. The Caldari State should act as a state and not as an entity controlled by CCP
That would mean sanctions against CA until they apologize and provide an indemnity to podded pilots
People asking on forums for sanctions against CA are right, they are just asking to CCP to roleplay on what happened. I'm quite agree with discorporation here.
Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 ) |
Core Bash
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Posted - 2004.10.22 17:39:00 -
[29]
As long as this means we can open fire on Caldari faction security and loot their uber modules, then I'm all for it. 
á
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Core Bash
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Posted - 2004.10.22 17:39:00 -
[30]
As long as this means we can open fire on Caldari faction security and loot their uber modules, then I'm all for it.
á
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