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Altho Regilian
Caldari
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2009.09.17 19:13:00 -
[1]
I've kept generally quiet on this issue for the last several years as I have seen it as a challenge to overcome and have seen a couple others complain about the problems with this particular ship. Many of you are correct in that this is a popular ship, however that is really only for missions. It can be an easy ship to fit to tank level 4's and deal out enough damage so the mission doesn't take forever, but it is a near impossible ship to fit for PvP. The popularity of this ship in PvP is also near zero. Most Caldari pilots in fleet combat will tend towards the Scorpion for ECM or the Rokh as a sniper. In smaller gang/solo PvP, only the Rokh is used as a poor man's mega (w/ shields in place of armor). There are a few suggestions I have to make this ship a tad easier to fit and maybe more viable for PvP.
First off, let me show the two best fits I've developed for the Raven:
Active:
[Raven, PvP]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II x3
Damage Control II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II x2
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo x 6
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[empty high slot]
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Ogre II x3
With my skills (all level 5 fitting and missile support) I get just over 1k DPS and will run out of cap in 1 min 45 seconds.
The above fit also requires a 3% PG implant to fit.
Passive:
[Raven, PvP]
Reactor Control Unit II
Ballistic Control System II x3
Damage Control II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II x2
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo x2
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[empty high slot]
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I x2
Ogre II x3
Passive tank which gets 79k EHP and does 1.1k DPS. Pretty good passive ship but even with the extra damage, you can't stand toe-to-toe against most other battleships. Also requires top fitting skills as there is only 4 CPU left over with the above fit.
THE PROBLEMS:
The main problems facing the Raven are the lack of mid-slots and CPU problems. I have no problem with using a fitting module, but when I can get the same or better on another empires ship and have a ton left over... that's a problem. (e.g. Geddon. 7x heavy pulse II's + Unstable neut w/ 1k damage 85k EHP AND a LAR II... (WD II, Web II, Medium Cap Boost II in mids) 24 CPU and 2.2k PG remaining). That's just an example. I have several other fits for that ship alone.
SOLUTIONS
Add 50 base CPU and 500 base PG to the Raven.
It's not much but for more advanced players with the fitting skills, it should allow easier fitting of T2 sieges. Even with the additional CPU and PG, a fitting module and/or Rigs would still need to be used for a full T2 setup
Taking the best closest comparison, the Mega has 550 base CPU and 15500 PG. The Raven has 700 CPU and 9500. 750 CPU and 10000 PG seems more reasonable.
Drop a highslot, add a mid.
I'm not even going to ask for a mid and a low as it would make fitting the ship way too easy (free fitting module). The additional midslot would be good though since shields and gank both go in mid-slots. As it stands, it is very difficult to have one without the other.
Armor tankers: Yes, I know you will immediatelly start talking about having all our damage mods free in the lows, but many of you have 7-8 lowslots which allows you to have 2-3 damage mods + 5 tank (DCU included) + 3-4 mids for gank. The Raven does not have this option for it's gank. 2-3 damage mods + 5 for tank (DCU included) + 1-2 for gank. Pretty even with the exception of the gank slots. Being able to fit an MWD or some ECCM would certainly be a nice option...
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.17 20:50:00 -
[2]
I agree. It's worse than that though.
Those Raven fits don't have any painters, webs or missile velocity rigs which means sucktastic dps and crap range on top of all the other problems. Fit them and have a ludicrous BS ehp. That 1000dps you mention is anything but without them unless you are shooting structures or caps.
Anyone with sense knows this and primaries a Torp (the only semi-viable pvp Cald BS missile weapon now) Raven becaue they know it will fold like a house of cards.
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Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.17 23:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nekmet Awai on 17/09/2009 23:59:55
no caldary ship is made for soloing.
the raven have a insane dps+insane tank fitted correctly for pvp, and it will win any fight it takes on when fitted for these. granted it can't tackle while doing this, but again caldary ships are not meant to solo, bring a gallente ship with you as wingman and you will be the goldstar to have at your side.
torp ravens, can have dps at 1k+ at 700+ 70km and a buffer tank of 130k+, 80k+ omni.
i actually think these ships are better in a pvp situation then a pve (compared to the althernatives in the same class)
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Altho Regilian
Caldari
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2009.09.18 02:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Altho Regilian on 18/09/2009 02:59:09
So...
You believe it is fair and balanced to require two caldari players to accomplish the same goal a player flying any other race of ship can do solo?
Sir, your argument is far from convincing.
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Tau Dades
Caldari
Even End of the Universe
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Posted - 2009.09.18 03:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Nekmet Awai
torp ravens, can have dps at 1k+ at 700+ 70km
lolwat?
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MrHarryCanyon
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Posted - 2009.09.18 04:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tau Dades
Originally by: Nekmet Awai
torp ravens, can have dps at 1k+ at 700+ 70km
lolwat?
Yeah it is very easy to fit a torp raven and get over 1000DPS. Cruise missiles are not practical because of the travel time of the missiles but 700 seems attainable. The high DPS raven fits I've seen lack in tank and are meant as pure (ans scary) DPS support.
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Raa Chura
Northstar Syndicate
Northstar Coalition
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Posted - 2009.09.18 06:20:00 -
[7]
Torp raven, 3 BCS and all 5 skills, and tech II drones, 1300dps, same as a vindicator with all neutrons and 3 MFS and drones. Only diff is the turret ships get wreckings but missile pilots can choose lowest resistance.
While I don't see the need for PG I do feel the need for a bit more CPU.
Raa Chura
"You can't read loss, you can only feel it.." |
Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
eXsecratio Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.18 06:59:00 -
[8]
Raven is fine.
Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.18 08:08:00 -
[9]
If you go by how much it's used/popularity the raven is fine. It's got a role that it fills well, and it can and has been used in pvp rather well.
I will say one thing though, you are not making use of the ravens flexibility. The raven has the same flexibility as the tempest and your going amarr like with a full dps/tank setup. The fact that it can nearly compete with other ships in the dps/tank role when it's designed for flexibility says something about how good it is.
However I will add that flexibility atm is in need of a buff so their may be some problems with it.
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Just a crazy inventor
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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