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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:01:00 -
[1]
I've been reading the threads about the 11% tax on NPC Corps, and as usual they are full of arrogant posturing by "PvPers" who are desperate to believe they are better than mission runners.
I'd like some input that indicates how much actual PvP combat occurs in EvE. This excludes killmail counting, which is meaningless since the statistics are shared. Low death rates just make you a coeward by the way - it's nothing to be proud of.
A player in the tax thread estimated the number of ships he's lost in PvP (a few hundred), which I think is a much better indicator of PvP participation than killmails.
So - please share the number of ships you've lost in combat, and add the amount of playing time it's taken (or perhaps estimate the number lost over the past year, and note it's a yearly rate).
To start the ball rolling (and in the interest of full disclosure): two ships lost to ganker trash in lowSec, currently avoiding PvP. I've done a lot of PvP in "that other game" though. I might share some numbers later if I get some interesting responses to this thead.
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Siex
Caldari
Buccaneers of New Eden
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:25:00 -
[2]
does anyone else know what she's talking about? because all I seem to be reading is a set of incoherent statements.
_________________________________
Pretend inferior and encourage the enemyÆs arrogance
-Sun Tzu |
Jitasuperyrader
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:36:00 -
[3]
Troll?
If not. PvP is whenever your in low sec/0.0 and looking for a fight. So that would mean 23/7 if you were constantly out looking for people to shoot at.
Also the beauty of Eve PVP is that you will not die unless you make a tactical mistake. That's why people have low death rates. The skill in Eve pvp is knowing when to cut and run. Its a lot more subtle than any other pvp game i can think of, and also a lot more complex for this reason.
How many ships have i lost? Hundreds, but in the past year or so i have probably lost about 5% of my total. Because we were all noobs once.
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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:36:00 -
[4]
Siex - the TS:CR version: EvE players talk a lot about PvP, but they don't seem to do much of it.
This thread gives people a chance to indicate how much PvP they actually do by indicating how many ships they've lost in combat.
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Siex
Caldari
Buccaneers of New Eden
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:44:00 -
[5]
i see.. my bad, need sleep :/
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Pretend inferior and encourage the enemyÆs arrogance
-Sun Tzu |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:49:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Gsptlsnz
I'd like some input that indicates how much actual PvP combat occurs in EvE.
I'm going to stop you right there. The problem with your question is that you might not understand what you're actually asking.
PvP in EVE extends beyond combat.
So when you're seeing "PvP posturing" in those threads, you have to ask yourself what kind of PvP we're talking about. You're only asking about a small subset — is it really the one you're interested in?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:56:00 -
[7]
@Tippia
I use "combat" to indicate actual fighting against actual player opponents. Numbers of ships lost is an indicator for both combat participation and risk. An imprecise measure, but easy to estimate.
I don't count undercutting prices in the market or stuff like that as combat. I don't personally count it as PvP either, but I don't own the definition of "PvP" in EvE.
I count ganking as "second-rate PvP", but there's no statistical way to distinguish it from 0.0 warfare, where "fair = foolish", so I'm not interested in killmails one way or the other - I think it's a useless statistic.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
I use "combat" to indicate actual fighting against actual player opponents. Numbers of ships lost is an indicator for both combat participation and risk. An imprecise measure, but easy to estimate.
Yes, I understand that, but is it an actual indicator of what you want to know? Or, rather, is what you want to know relevant to the arguments being made in those threads?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Wrexia
Eternal Frontier
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:11:00 -
[9]
Over all accounts and characters, probably about 60 lost ships.
Hard to estimate really since its spanning a 6 year period over 6 characters.
Should blown up noobships/shuttles count btw?
Does scout noob alt's count?
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Sani Oska
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:27:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sani Oska on 23/09/2009 09:30:24
when i was actively playing in a pvp corp: 470 kills to 75 losses in 5 months
could have done more if i didn't spend time on helping with logistics and doing some other stuff for the corp that did not involve spaceship on spaceship violence
but yes all this killing was preceded by much reading and talk with other people in corp so that we could achieve better gang organization
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Doddy
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:31:00 -
[11]
The more kills there is the less fun tbh. Eve is good because actually finding someone to kill can take ages and getting a good kill is relatively rare. That other game is akin to mutual war dec corps in eve, pointless beyond testing some interesting setups.
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Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:36:00 -
[12]
Losses: 39
Kills: 699 (205 of which were pods. Yes, I'm a bastard)
Timeperiod: About a year and a half, not counting my lowsec adventures as a n00blet.
There's a few kills on pos's in there though, but considering how much bloody effort those take I feel justified in including them 
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Recruitment thread |
Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.09.23 10:38:00 -
[13]
46 losses and 105 kills in about 2 months of factional warfare.
My ratio is improving slowly but surely. 
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Crimsoneer
Gallente
Knowledge Stick Station
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Posted - 2009.09.23 10:49:00 -
[14]
I have about 30 kills to 5 or so losses over the last month. Low-sec drug runner who enjoys shooting neutrals in his spare time.
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Pods and Pills, a low sec blog |
a51 duke1406
The League of Godless Militants
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:06:00 -
[15]
www.battleclinic.com
There thats not tough. They have graphs and everything.
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Redbad
Minmatar
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:18:00 -
[16]
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable. 
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 23/09/2009 12:28:16
logged in? Then your PVPing. People always do this stupid one dimensional **** when they talk about player vs player.
the number of ships ive lost is in my sig, afaik theyre all there.
+
LDS @ Bclnc
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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Redbad
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable.
Yes please. I really don't want to see the kills or kill/death ratios in this thread, just the ship *losses*.
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Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Originally by: Redbad
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable.
Yes please. I really don't want to see the kills or kill/death ratios in this thread, just the ship *losses*.
What do losses mean unless you place them in context? Besides, every kill is a loss
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Recruitment thread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Originally by: Redbad
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable.
Yes please. I really don't want to see the kills or kill/death ratios in this thread, just the ship *losses*.
Since I joined my current corp back around April
6 Zealots
3 Armageddons
1 Abbadon
1 Kestrel (cyno kessie)
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:50:00 -
[21]
I don't know what you are trying to probe, but still:
My definition of player vs. player would be: players interacting competitevelly where one can gain something over someone else losing it. Player killing (PK) is a subset.
High-end market trading is probably the most hardcore pvp you can find in this game in terms of risk, you can lose billions in a bad movement. That would be par to fighting in supercaps or in expensive faction/t2 ships fit with deadspace/officer mods, or cap fights.
You can't compare apple to oranges, the fact you're avoiding pvp here while you did it usually in 'that other game' speaks truth about all the fuss around pvp in EVE: acts have consequences, and these consequences mean REAL loss where you have invested time&money. No respawn. That's the real difference and why everyone is soe xcited with pvp (because seriouslly, the point&click mechancis of EVE and most MMOG get old very fast in the 'fun factor', is the challenge what makes it great).
So if you're trying to prove something... take that in mind. Anyway, for a direct answer, you're not going to get a decent sample on this forum, your best bet is checking Battleclinic number of killmails against the time it has been running, do the same with http://eve-kill.net/ and you may get a significant vision of the whole picture. Killmails are a good measure when yout ake them globally, not individually.
Fun stuff would be finding some statistical indexes for loses (average cost, median cost, check the distribution, etc.). Anyway you would be way short to get any real picture: you would have to compare by character-age (SP wise), richness, and a whole load of stuff but is a start. Let us know if you find stuff interesting (if I recall right, in one of the two last QEN there was statistics about pvp, or more precisselly, pk, activity in EVE).
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Apoctasy
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Originally by: Redbad
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable.
Yes please. I really don't want to see the kills or kill/death ratios in this thread, just the ship *losses*.
Some people generally die a lot, and others don't. I'm a recon pilot and pirate and I get a ton of pvp, but rarely die due to the nature of my ship class.
Judging by losses is stupid.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar
In Your Head
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Adam Ridgway
I don't know what you are trying to probe
I looked at this thread and immediately docked up.
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gamertrav
Department of Defence
Prismatic Refraction
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:35:00 -
[24]
Edited by: gamertrav on 23/09/2009 13:38:37
Originally by: Redbad
Don't count the kills, count the losses. They tend to be more reliable.
For every killmail, there is a lossmail, no?
If you truly want an indicator of the amount of PVP in eve, battleclinic would be a great place to start (as many others have mentioned). Not every kill or loss gets posted on there, but a significant percentage of them do.
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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 23/09/2009 13:41:43
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 23/09/2009 13:39:42
Originally by: Apoctasy
Some people generally die a lot, and others don't. I'm a recon pilot and pirate and I get a ton of pvp, but rarely die due to the nature of my ship class.
Judging by losses is stupid.
It's natural for people want the best "maeningless statistic of PvP participation" (killmails and K/D ratios in EvE). So they play to maximize the statistic, which makes it impossible to interpret. Deaths / ship losses are certainly not perfect, but I think it's a better indication of both participation and risk-taking.
Someone who frequently courts destruction (scouts, tacklers) shoud say so. I won't be making a spreadsheet or graphs of this, so while I'd like the numbers to be accurate, they don't need to be mutually consistent.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:41:00 -
[26]
78 losses in the last 13 months according to the killboard I post on.
136 lifetime (since Nov 2006) according to battle clinic (though battle clinic misses a good deal).
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Aurora Nyx
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.23 14:19:00 -
[27]
160 losses in just over 1 yr.
I'm a Crow pilot mostly, so 100+ of those ships lost are Crows where i've got careless or sacrificed the ship for the point/web til my backup arrived.
You should try getting in to Faction Warfare if you think about losing some of your own instead of counting other peoples
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.23 14:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Apoctasy
Judging by losses is stupid.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:05:00 -
[29]
nameless alt,
lets see, you want to have a good idea of pvp combat, go look at any of the alliances killboards, that shall give you a decent view of pvp in EVE.
as an example, this is one of Atlas's slower months in the past year...
4071 Ships killed (166.46B ISK) 1412 Ships lost (77B ISK)
you can find info like this on any main alliance KB.
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gamertrav
Department of Defence
Prismatic Refraction
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:19:00 -
[30]
Edited by: gamertrav on 23/09/2009 15:26:40
Originally by: Gonada
you can find info like this on any main alliance KB.
These killboards even have a "losses" page where only the losses will be displayed too. Although again, isn't a loss always a kill, and vice versa? (with the exception of pve)
Asking a single player how many ships they've lost is not a good indicator at all, because some people play all day, some log in 30mins a week. Some are 1 day old, some are 6 years old. The players ship preference also plays a big roll, not to mention the piloting skills of the player (and in bigger fleets the quality of the fleet commander).
Basically what I'm saying is, there's a huge number of variables which you can't account for. At least using a big killboard will give you "averaged" out statistics.
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