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Dust useless for industrials?

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Khadann First Legion 30	Posted - 2012.06.06 23:18:00 - [1] - Quote A question: How can a player /corp can be interested in dust (from an eve market/industry perspective) when the PI ressources are so badly valued in the market? I mean the ratio requested/provided is just a joke currently. I mean why should i bother any interaction with dust players when i know the ressources there are valueless? + the fact that we won't produce anything related with dust :(
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance 209	Posted - 2012.06.07 01:45:00 - [2] - Quote Khadann wrote: A question: How can a player /corp can be interested in dust (from an eve market/industry perspective) when the PI ressources are so badly valued in the market? I mean the ratio requested/provided is just a joke currently. I mean why should i bother any interaction with dust players when i know the ressources there are valueless? + the fact that we won't produce anything related with dust :( It's hard to say til we see what we will be able to manufacture for the dust players. The obvious answer though is if you depend on PI for a product you'll want some dust support.. even if you don't care about Sov. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG]
Kara Books Deal with IT. 152	Posted - 2012.06.07 02:44:00 - [3] - Quote If , CCP does this RIGHT, the dust players will become eve players, thus direct or indirect consumers for PI goods, should skyrocket, the sales will go up and so will the price. Cross your Fingers and hope for the best year eve has ever seen.
Zetaomega333 HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens 6	Posted - 2012.06.07 05:24:00 - [4] - Quote its not useless, we can play dust while we mine.
Velicitia Open Designs 1004	Posted - 2012.06.07 11:16:00 - [5] - Quote The "interaction" is (to my understanding) geared towards Nullsec and possibly FW. If you're a hisec-only PI person, there's no real "interaction" between you/your corp and a merc/merc corp beyond the market (assuming the Dust market will actually use new PI stuff to make weapons or some such).
Pinstar Colton Sweet Asteroid Acres 124	Posted - 2012.06.07 12:18:00 - [6] - Quote Given the lack of new items that use PI goods, I'm going to guess that the new things that can be built that relate to DUST will consume PI goods. It is in CCP's best interest that PI goods become a valued comodity once again, and thus are worth fighting for by DUST and eve players alike. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.
Metamonic St. Ives Mercantile League 4	Posted - 2012.06.07 12:29:00 - [7] - Quote If I was CCP, and I doubt the thought never crossed them, I would create incentives for DUST players to try play some EVE (and vice versa). The first thing that comes to mind would be to tie together both item-environments in a way that, for the rest of us, can be spelled out as O-P-P-O-R-T-U-N-I-T-I-E-S. The could call it "The Power of two and a half", where the half obviously being the lesser-of-a-man Dust character. =)
Tenchi Sal Dust Bunnies 514 86	Posted - 2012.06.07 13:44:00 - [8] - Quote i believe dust players can actually do PI themselves. they will actually be competition.
Pinstar Colton Sweet Asteroid Acres 124	Posted - 2012.06.07 14:33:00 - [9] - Quote Tenchi Sal wrote: i believe dust players can actually do PI themselves. they will actually be competition. How would they ship goods to and from markets? Courier Contracts? I'm certain they will include some form of industrial activity, but probably not the same exact mechanic as PI for us. Perhaps, using the launchpad, an EVE player can import goods that can't be produced on the planet. The Dust players can then, using their own unique manufacturing facilities, make those goods into products that EVE players can't produce on their own. It is then up to the EVE player to export the goods. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.
Haulie Berry 196	Posted - 2012.06.07 14:50:00 - [10] - Quote Wait... you mean an almost entirely uncontested resource production mechanism that requires minimal player interaction leads to more material being supplied than is demanded? Color me shocked. Shocked, I say. That aside, they're not really "badly valued". They're worth enough that people choose to keep producing them.

Tenchi Sal Dust Bunnies 514 86	Posted - 2012.06.07 15:11:00 - [11] - Quote Pinstar Colton wrote: Tenchi Sal wrote: i believe dust players can actually do PI themselves. they will actually be competition. How would they ship goods to and from markets? Courier Contracts? I'm certain they will include some form of industrial activity, but probably not the same exact mechanic as PI for us. Perhaps, using the launchpad, an EVE player can import goods that can't be produced on the planet. The Dust players can then, using their own unique manufacturing facilities, make those goods into products that EVE players can't produce on their own. It is then up to the EVE player to export the goods. im not sure how. dont think the devs even know. theres was a recent video interview with ccp soundwave from tentonhammer saying they arent even sure how they are gonna get dust player to low/null sec planets in the first place.
Ackemi Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn 3	Posted - 2012.06.07 17:45:00 - [12] - Quote Tenchi Sal wrote: im not sure how. dont think the devs even know. theres was a recent video interview with ccp soundwave from tentonhammer saying they arent even sure how they are gonna get dust player to low/null sec planets in the first place. ^^That's an entertaining thought! It would almost require a low orbit planetary cyno beacon for Dust MCCs to jump to. They would also require infinite range jump drives (at least until planetary orbitals are implemented) Because if SOV depended on it there is no way a bunch of dust barges are gonna get past most Eve gate blockades... To say nothing of the insta-gratification FPSers waiting for anything like regular interaction with Eve (snail paced). _____________________ If CCP is smart, I don't think there will be much market interaction between the platforms until Dust can financially stand up. Then they slowly phase in the interaction. Doing too much too fast will break the Eve economy. Eve players may have the proverbial bank (capital), but for some time Dusties will dominate with numbers. Eve players will not be able to scale up to that market level immediately even if CCP let us. There may be literally a million Dusties appear in a week all wanting stuffz. (Just my uninformed 0.02isk)
Katja Faith Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2012.06.07 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote I'm still curious (and haven't gotten an answer yet) as to whether we, in Eve, can attack the troop transports that bring the DUST players to the planets they're attacking. After all, fair is fair. I can't wait to see Goonie transports for DUST going up in flames... And at what point CAN they be attacked? Huge transports in orbit (heavy battleships)? The transport shuttles that get them to the surface (AF & Interceptors)? Since bigger attack ships and/or warp disruption are allowed in low/null, does this mean all of the DUST action will still be focused on ganking in high? Where does CONCORD get involved on the transport pilots bringing in all those troops for illegal actions against unsanctioned (non-declared) war activities? Inquiring minds, and all that.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 89	Posted - 2012.06.07 19:22:00 - [14] - Quote Dust is not going to have anything to do with EVE on-line when it's first released, you do realise this right? It is only going to be integrated at a later date, please stop me if I'm wrong but that's what I last heard. The rest of this post is pure speculation on my part. As for the PI and dust I think Dust is going to get tied into FW and the planets in the FW systems are going to get a massive buff to make them worth fighting over. As for fighting over every planet are you mad? There are far too many planets in the whole eve universe whose values are far to low for the amount of players dust is going to attract. So as for the idea of fighting for planets outside FW I think you're going to be very disappointed but yet I must stress I'm speculating and I hope CCP proves me wrong. So how big will dust matches be 16 v 16, possibly 32 v 32 and each planet is going to be a server. How many planets do you think are in each constellation. One or two constellation worth of planets will probably account for every DUST server even if best estimates on player numbers are achieved. Why would people bother fighting over planets currently they just don't produce the ISK to make them worth it? Maybe CCP will introduce a handful of planets with insane isk returns that will be the focus of DUST? Simply fighting on random planets just seems unlikely unless every planet got buffed and then if that was the case there would never be enough dust players or servers to fight for all the planetary wars that would result from the buff.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 89	Posted - 2012.06.07 19:24:00 - [15] - Quote As for Dust being useless to indy types. Who do you think is gonna make all the crap they are exploding? Yes, when it's integrated you.
Khadann First Legion 30	Posted - 2012.06.07 23:00:00 - [16] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Dust is not going to have anything to do with EVE on-line when it's first released, you do realise this right? It is only going to be integrated at a later date, please stop me if I'm wrong but that's what I last heard. Exactly, from the recent news i have read, CCP reduced their ambition in terms of EVE-Dust interaction at release. Basically, it will depend of the success of Dust. I remember a recent interview when CCP mentioned that no item will be built by eve players at release. I think CPP should clarify this point to avoid disapoitment or expectation missmatch...
Ishen Villone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2012.06.07 23:25:00 - [17] - Quote Katja Faith wrote: I'm still curious (and haven't gotten an answer yet) as to whether we, in Eve, can attack the troop transports that bring the DUST players to the planets they're attacking. After all, fair is fair. I can't wait to see Goonie transports for DUST going up in flames... And at what point CAN they be attacked? Huge transports in orbit (heavy battleships)? The transport shuttles that get them to the surface (AF & Interceptors)? Since bigger attack ships and/or warp disruption are allowed in low/null, does this mean all of the DUST action will still be focused on ganking in high? Where does CONCORD get involved on the transport pilots bringing in all those troops for illegal actions against unsanctioned (non-declared) war activities? Inquiring minds, and all that. I believe the idea was to make it so that sort of thing didn't happen on the Eve side. The thinking is that a FPS player doesn't want to go through the process of waiting for his buddies to log in, waiting for the transport Eve players, waiting, waiting, waiting, and just before the action starts, and then BOOM. Transport shot down, battle lost, Dust player never even got to load the map. I wouldn't play that game. Would you?
Anya Ohaya School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 123	Posted - 2012.06.08 00:00:00 - [18] - Quote Pinstar Colton wrote: It is in CCP's best interest that PI goods become a valued comodity once again Why?
Celgar Thurn Department 10 45	Posted - 2012.06.08 15:53:00 - [19] - Quote At release of DUST 514 there will not be any industrial connection whatsoever between EVE Online & DUST 514 and I don't think that connection will be high priority. The primary concern will obviously be to get the battle mechanics of the game working well. As DUST 514 involves control of planets and the building of bases,planetary and space defense installations, & industrial complexes PI materials will be the main 'building blocks' along with maybe drops of other new material types from drone npcs or contract/mission rewards. All ammunition will be provided for free during battle at 'collection points' for each side so ammo won't need to be manufactured at all !! Some DUST/EVE connections with PI materials have already been added to EVE for example to do with new clones for DUST mercs. I think at some point EVE pilots will be able to make weapons and ships for the DUST market but it will not happen for a while. Initially everything needed will be given and/or be available to buy with ISK and/or Aurum on the DUST 514 npc market. Amounts of Aurum needed to purchase items will be infinitesimal compared to the amounts needed to purchase one piece of clothing in EVE. I won't be surprised if at that point the Aurum prices for NEX store items are massively reduced. I agree with Ishen Villone in that I don't think CCP have decided on the game mechanics to be used to transport DUST mercs through space to planets. But I think it highly unlikely that the War Barges, if they are implemented into the game, will be travelling through space and be open to ambush or attack at any point. I also think DUST 514 will never have an effect on nul-sec sovreignty largely because there would be such an uproar and tsunami of 'QQ' that we would never hear the end of it. The factional & racial elements within battle and skill learning will be the main emphasis I believe.
Katja Faith Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2012.06.08 15:58:00 - [20] - Quote Ishen Villone wrote: Katja Faith wrote: I'm still curious (and haven't gotten an answer yet) as to whether we, in Eve, can attack the troop transports that bring the DUST players to the planets they're attacking. After all, fair is fair. I can't wait to see Goonie transports for DUST going up in flames... And at what point CAN they be attacked? Huge transports in orbit (heavy battleships)? The transport shuttles that get them to the surface (AF & Interceptors)? Since bigger attack ships and/or warp disruption are allowed in low/null, does this mean all of the DUST action will still be focused on ganking in high? Where does CONCORD get involved on the transport pilots bringing in all those troops for illegal actions against unsanctioned (non-declared) war activities? Inquiring minds, and all that. I believe the idea was to make it so that sort of thing didn't happen on the Eve side. The thinking is that a FPS player doesn't want to go through the process of waiting for his buddies to log in, waiting for the transport Eve players, waiting, waiting, waiting, and just before the action starts, and then BOOM. Transport shot down, battle lost, Dust player never even got to load the map. I wouldn't play that game. Would you? I personally have zero intention of playing DUST. But if (if) DUST players can affect the Eve players, why can't the Eve players have an effect on the DUST players? Fair is fair, no? ;-)

Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 89	Posted - 2012.06.10 11:08:00 - [21] - Quote Did anyone here play a game called Total Annihilation? It was a great strategy game that was miles ahead of other RTS of it's time putting both Red Alert and Starcraft to shame. Well anyway the reason I mention it was because the on-line game was focused around a system called boneyards. The main feature of bone yards was the galactic war where the 2 sides fought against each other on a series of planets. With each planet being represented by a certain map. (There were over 200 official maps and countless other unofficial ones.). Each game when won or lost would account for taking over the planet. You might have 30 games on at once and the outcome of all the games will decide who controls the planet, same as in Star Wars battlefront too. I think a similar thing will happen in eve and I don't believe that there will be any waiting around at the FPS end because FPS'rs just won't have the patience for that. I think EVE players will initiate planetary warfare and then some sort of timer begin where each side gets reinforcements equipment onto planet all the while below several servers/games of dust go on to determine who controls the place. So as for indy types I think you will be selling your planet warfare stuff at trade hubs and then other eve players will be buying and shipping it and selling it to there dust players to win the planet for them or giving it to them depending on how well they played and how many in game credits they won. Just a guess, is this thread not supposed to be in dust section anyway?
Haulie Berry 197	Posted - 2012.06.10 15:33:00 - [22] - Quote Katja Faith wrote: players can affect the Eve players, why can't the Eve players have an effect on the DUST players? Fair is fair, no? ;-) Pretty sure orbital bombardment affects them. Maybe in some far distant future Dust players will exist within the Eve universe in a way that would make shooting down transports a reasonable and balanced option, but the amount of development time required for that means it isn't going to be any time soon. Shoehorning in some half-assed ability to do it right out of the gate would be asinine and detrimental to the longevity of DUST.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 89	Posted - 2012.06.10 18:20:00 - [23] - Quote Haulie Berry wrote: Katja Faith wrote: players can affect the Eve players, why can't the Eve players have an effect on the DUST players? Fair is fair, no? ;-) Pretty sure orbital bombardment affects them. Maybe in some far distant future Dust players will exist within the Eve universe in a way that would make shooting down transports a reasonable and balanced option, but the amount of development time required for that means it isn't going to be any time soon. Shoehorning in some half-assed ability to do it right out of the gate would be asinine and detrimental to the longevity of DUST. Where is orbital bombardment mentioned? Oh you mean in the video the same video where that capital get's insta popped from the plannet? Cool I hope they have both. Some kid blasting titans out of the sky from his console.
Haulie Berry 199	Posted - 2012.06.10 20:23:00 - [24] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: [quote=Haulie Berry][quote=Katja Faith] Where is orbital bombardment mentioned? Oh you mean in the video the same video where that capital get's insta popped from the plannet? Cool I hope they have both. Some kid blasting titans out of the sky from his console. ...it was demoed during the dust keynote.
Kelhund Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4	Posted - 2012.06.11 04:55:00 - [25] - Quote Well, if we do have kids popping titans from consoles we benefit either way because of the spike in demand for minerals. Nullsec guys hate mining trit, and more often than not buy it from empire and j/f it out. I"m sure that you'll be able to provide your troopies with better weapons, or we may see that there actually be a purpose for Planetary Vehicles now. If and when integration of the games happens, I"m sure there will be a need for PI products somewhere.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance 228	Posted - 2012.06.11 15:33:00 - [26] - Quote Tenchi Sal wrote: i believe dust players can actually do PI themselves. they will actually be competition. ..all the more reason to have dust teams in your alliance... they can join your alliance or your corp I believe. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG]


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