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Why/Who makes the Crap Ships

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Juliet SoulBurner	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:26:00 - [1] Hi, Cat here... Just curious as to who and or why people still invent/build the crap ships. [Ignore Exisitance of T2 BPO for this thread] For example, the Raptor. It costs the same to invent as the crow. It costs the same to build as the crow. It sells for far less then the crow. So why would someone bother invent the raptor?
Elendor Xanadaph Amarr Redwind Trading Facility	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:39:00 - [2] Your looking at it from the wrong side. From here: The crow is more expensive then the raptor because there is more demand for it. Unlike T1 ships there is a largish gap between the material cost and ship selling cost. T2 ships tend to make more profit p/u then T1 ships. Take a look at sell/buy order difference between T1 and T2. That and I believe T2 materials change prices quicker then T1 materials.
Juliet SoulBurner	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:42:00 - [3] I understand that ^^ the question was why do ppl bother making the ships in less demand that return less isk when teh same work nets your moar isk. Thanks tho for your reply
Elendor Xanadaph Amarr Redwind Trading Facility	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:49:00 - [4] Not sure :p Mabye the market is less saturated, therefore they can sell "crap" ships as fast or faster then the "good" ships, therefore still making the same or more isk per unit of time. Maybe they build both because the demand can not keep up with the supply so they invent different ships. Maybe there are less .01 isk watchers on the "crap" ships so they dont have to adjust orders every 30 minutes.
Quince Dupree Gallente H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.09.25 03:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Elendor Xanadaph Not sure :p Maybe there are less .01 isk watchers on the "crap" ships so they dont have to adjust orders every 30 minutes. bingo
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.25 03:58:00 - [6] Tech 2 researched BPO. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
M Blanc	Posted - 2009.09.25 07:04:00 - [7] Edited by: M Blanc on 25/09/2009 07:06:02 Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner Hi, Cat here... Just curious as to who and or why people still invent/build the crap ships. [Ignore Exisitance of T2 BPO for this thread] For example, the Raptor. It costs the same to invent as the crow. It costs the same to build as the crow. It sells for far less then the crow. So why would someone bother invent the raptor? Aren't pretty much all interceptors produced from T2 BPOs? If so, there are probably just a few unlucky sods who got a raptor bpo and are squeezing whatever profit they can out of it. edit: saying 'ignore t2 bpos' when the last qen stated that pretty much all ceptor production is done using them is a bit... self-defeating.
Barbicane TGUN Industries	Posted - 2009.09.25 07:43:00 - [8] Originally by: M Blanc Aren't pretty much all interceptors produced from T2 BPOs? If so, there are probably just a few unlucky sods who got a raptor bpo and are squeezing whatever profit they can out of it. But why then are the raptors priced at invention cost and not at T2 BPO build cost (+ minimal profit margin)?
Dismantler	Posted - 2009.09.25 08:02:00 - [9] Because there is profit. Maybe not the highest, but it satisfies the inventer/manufacturer. As mentioned, there is less competition. And for me the most important reason, which comes from teh previos two - diversification. I am sure that the same people who invent Crows also invent Raptors. Best regards, Dismantler
quygen Minmatar Acting Neutral	Posted - 2009.09.25 09:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Barbicane Originally by: M Blanc Aren't pretty much all interceptors produced from T2 BPOs? If so, there are probably just a few unlucky sods who got a raptor bpo and are squeezing whatever profit they can out of it. But why then are the raptors priced at invention cost and not at T2 BPO build cost (+ minimal profit margin)? Because invention cost = T2BPO + minimal proft margin. If there is more margin, it would be invented. Q Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal ^ You seen it CCP =) Now go fix!
Joe Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.	Posted - 2009.09.25 09:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner So why would someone bother invent the raptor? Raptor has a 4.5x Warp speed bonus, Crow has a 3.0x bonus... Guess which one won't catch my Ares fleeing across your sov space? Just becuase one class of ships has a higher price doesnt mean its 'better' or the other types are 'crap', it just means one is in higher demand (usully the highest DPS version of a ship class, becuase thats whats simple minded people head straight for). Every ship in eve has its benifits and disadvatages, theres is no 'Multi-tool', and without the correct tool for the job, you loose, simple as that. Just do research, Ignore 'cooky cutter' setups, and FLOTM rubbish, go for the Ship/module that best fits the Job you need done, and you'll allways come out on top... And hopefully at the end of the day, theres some on the market for you to buy, produced by pilots that think outside of the box
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.09.25 17:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner Hi, Cat here... Lies! You're not Cat at all!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.25 18:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Barbicane Originally by: M Blanc Aren't pretty much all interceptors produced from T2 BPOs? If so, there are probably just a few unlucky sods who got a raptor bpo and are squeezing whatever profit they can out of it. But why then are the raptors priced at invention cost and not at T2 BPO build cost (+ minimal profit margin)? Because 84% (quantity produced from BPO) is not 100% so the price is dictated by that extra 16% produced through invention. Evidently the demand is high enough that it is possible to sell at invention cost and the BPO owners sell at a price as high as possible. The price is dictate by BPO production price only if all the demand is covered by BPO and there is a leftover, so that BPO owners compete with each other.
Barbicane TGUN Industries	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:22:00 - [14] Edited by: Barbicane on 25/09/2009 19:25:10 edit: fix forum screw-up. Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Barbicane ... But why then are the raptors priced at invention cost and not at T2 BPO build cost (+ minimal profit margin)? Because 84% (quantity produced from BPO) is not 100% so the price is dictated by that extra 16% produced through invention. Evidently the demand is high enough that it is possible to sell at invention cost and the BPO owners sell at a price as high as possible. The price is dictate by BPO production price only if all the demand is covered by BPO and there is a leftover, so that BPO owners compete with each other. Yesss! That's the answer I was waiting for to my rhetorical question. It seems that although the majority of interceptors are apparently produced from T2 BPOs, the price level is still defined by invention. Isn't that interesting? Not that T2 BPO holders are necessarily "smarter" than inventors. I still find low demand T2 ships, such as command ships, frequently selling below production price, simply because the producers are calculating their sales price using the mineral + component prices at their build location rather than at the sales location (Jita). Hint: buying command ships at Jita, reprocessing them (with 0 waste) and selling the yield is often profitable.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner Hi, Cat here... Just curious as to who and or why people still invent/build the crap ships. [Ignore Exisitance of T2 BPO for this thread] But you can't do that. Didn't CCP say in the last QEN that most of the small tech II ships produced were done so by BPO's? In that case, I doubt anyone really is bothering to invent raptors. They are so terrible that I think a BPO holder would have no trouble meeting all possible demand for them.
Juliet SoulBurner	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:41:00 - [16] Hi, Cat here... The topic was about Invention, Hence the 'ignore t2 bpo' thing in the original poast. The query was who invents the cheaper of two choices when giving a choice to invent a ship when the same effort gives your more isk, not where do teh ships come from (i.e. omgz 7584% of ships r made from t2 bpos) Thanks for your thoughts, but in the future please try to keep your self on task and on topic at hand. [Those who drived the trains shall not derail]
Barbicane TGUN Industries	Posted - 2009.09.25 19:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Ulstan ... But you can't do that. Didn't CCP say in the last QEN that most of the small tech II ships produced were done so by BPO's? In that case, I doubt anyone really is bothering to invent raptors. They are so terrible that I think a BPO holder would have no trouble meeting all possible demand for them. Read Venkul Mul's response above. You may find it enlightening.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.09.26 01:19:00 - [18] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 26/09/2009 01:20:53 Quote: And for me the most important reason, which comes from teh previos two - diversification. This really. Think of it like this too though. Imagine the average sales volume of an item A is, say, 2000 units per day at 100 ISK profit. Now pretend I've got the resources and capacity to manufacture 2500 units per day of them. What use is that extra 500? It's just gonna notionally sit there til the next day and sell. Even though I could manufature more, my daily profit is 200,000 ISK. Now introduce item B requires the same amount of effort to manufacture on my half, and only moves 500 units per day at 10 ISK profit. If I manufacture 2500 units of item A I'll only get 200,000 ISK per day due to the sales volume of the item. If I manufacture 2000 units of item A and 500 of item B I'll make 205,000 ISK per day, more than if I only produced the more profitable item. It's a very idealistic explanation, but it's a pretty valid one. Quote: It seems that although the majority of interceptors are apparently produced from T2 BPOs, the price level is still defined by invention. Isn't that interesting? Not really. Pre-invention the price level was far higher than invention costs for most items. They don't sell far below invention costs because in a few cases it'd take the ISK/minute profit of the item below that of some T1 goods. Wouldn't you go for maximum available profit too?
Joe Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.	Posted - 2009.09.26 08:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner Hi, Cat here... The topic was about Invention, Hence the 'ignore t2 bpo' thing in the original poast. The query was who invents the cheaper of two choices when giving a choice to invent a ship when the same effort gives your more isk, not where do teh ships come from (i.e. omgz 7584% of ships r made from t2 bpos) Thanks for your thoughts, but in the future please try to keep your self on task and on topic at hand. [Those who drived the trains shall not derail] Did you find my earlier post helpfull, I noticed its now buried by arrogant people that refuse to anser the question you want.. but prefer to post answers to questions not asked
Femaref Armageddon Day	Posted - 2009.09.26 16:39:00 - [20] Quote: Hint: buying command ships at Jita, reprocessing them (with 0 waste) and selling the yield is often profitable. no. because you don't get the t2 components out of it, just the t1 minerals needed to build the t1-hull + some morphite.
bogir The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.27 10:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Femaref Quote: Hint: buying command ships at Jita, reprocessing them (with 0 waste) and selling the yield is often profitable. no. because you don't get the t2 components out of it, just the t1 minerals needed to build the t1-hull + some morphite. Yes you do... tey allso give T2 components back when you reporsess a T2 ship
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.09.27 19:32:00 - [22] Edited by: Mire Stoude on 27/09/2009 19:33:12 Originally by: Juliet SoulBurner Hi, Cat here... The topic was about Invention, Hence the 'ignore t2 bpo' thing in the original poast. The query was who invents the cheaper of two choices when giving a choice to invent a ship when the same effort gives your more isk, not where do teh ships come from (i.e. omgz 7584% of ships r made from t2 bpos) Thanks for your thoughts, but in the future please try to keep your self on task and on topic at hand. [Those who drived the trains shall not derail] I believe they are answering your question quite well, actually. To summarize, they are saying "Nobody is inventing the cheaper of the two ships." The T2 BPO owners are the ones supplying the demand.

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