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Mr Stark	Posted - 2009.09.26 06:56:00 - [1] I have a proposal for wardeccs, which clearly need some work... I expect all griefers will flame this thread, it isnt polished and will need more ideas, but at least it is an idea. Apologies for anything here that others have posted, but I dont trawl forums.. Wars can only be fought in systems of less security than 0.8, just like the pos anchoring rule. The reason for this would be that Concord and the factions dont want fighting going on in the most populous systems. War! Wardeccers should have a valid reason to wardec, like for instance one of their members was attacked somewhere, this is enough reason for war. If there is a valid reason for the wardecc, the following rule will not apply. The price of war. If a corp wants to randomly wardecc another corp, this is still perfectly valid (as this IS a pvp game primarily) BUT, corps have a concord security rating. If the security rating of th ecorp you are wardeccing is higher than yours, you take a hit to that rating. Corp security would work exactly like personal security in that when you go below certain level, your access to higher security systems is restricted, (but you dont go flashy red, only npc security can shoot you) The price of a wardecc should increase, with the difference in sec levels of the corps, IE if corp a (sec 1) wardeccs Corp B (sec 8) it would be far more expensive than deccing a corp who also had sec 1. A flat fee (like the current one) should be there for deccing corps who have actively shot your members. Obviously this is only a start to making wars more playable, for all involved. It is aimed at making griefing have a price, and for wars to actually need a reason for happening, but also providing a place where those who absolutely dont want to fight wars, a place to live, and play rather than quit eve in frustration, it does none of us any good if people leave the game. It doesnt stop those corps who want to wardecc for easier targets, but it makes it have some cost. Wars will still be prolific, and carebears do need to go to 0.7 and below, becasue that is where pos's are. If this is coupled with tax and other penalties for being in an NPC corp, I think it will encourage alot more PC corps, and alot more action, but the action will more often be between people who are happy to have that type of action... Now, ideas, critics and of course griefers flame away...
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.09.26 07:33:00 - [2] Hate Farmers? Click Here
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.09.26 08:53:00 - [3] People who dont want to PvP should of course be allowed this option. Naturally, this means that they wont want to use the market, mine scarce resources, anchor POS, covert LP, or place or accept open contracts. Alternatively, if people want to be immune from combat PvP in 0.8 and above, that's fine too, so long as they are compelled them to sell their stuffs to me only at NPC list price. Just as they want their ships to be immune from my combat PvP, I want my wallet to be immune to their market PvP.
gpfault Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.09.26 09:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Mr Stark words Why do wardecs need a nerf? What problems does your proposal solve?
Mr Stark	Posted - 2009.09.26 09:19:00 - [5] this isnt about pvp, this is about the wardecc mechanic. Which at the moment is used almost predominantly for griefing of industrial corporations. Many people are saying the mechanic needs changing, even ccp acknowledge the wardecc system needs work, this is merely a proposal. Dont take it personally just because your version of pvp is to kill industrials and carebears who are easy targets for the epeen. I sincerely believe, and so do many others, that the wardecc mechanic is very flawed, from both sides of the coin, ie, being able to bail from a decc by joining, then leaving an alliance, to the fact that it is used as legal piracy. From a storyline and roleplaying point of view (and no, im not an rper either) it also makes no sence whatsoever that concord and faction police are totally ok withthe idea of grief corps legaly pirating industrial corps, who have done nothing to deserve it. From a business point of view, it is also a problem, because quite simply, people leave the game due to griefers spoiling the way they play the game, just because they can. If people leave the game it is bad for everyone. As I suspected, the stream of flame that is basically from griefers. So, how about some constructive critisism, not just bleating please?
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.09.26 12:36:00 - [6] Not bad. Does need polish, but I very much like the idea of corps having sec ratings that affect the wardec cost. On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning?
Siko lawk	Posted - 2009.09.26 12:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Siko lawk on 26/09/2009 12:40:51 I like the idea of wars costing more / less depending on what sec system the corp wants the dec to be applicable to. also I like the idea of wars costing more the longer they go on for. I think really the whole war dec thing just needs to be made that little more difficult. Originally by: SupaKudoRio Not bad. Does need polish, but I very much like the idea of corps having sec ratings that affect the wardec cost. Oh yeah I like that to
Felix Jugo	Posted - 2009.09.26 16:49:00 - [8] Quote: It is aimed at making griefing have a price. Make them pay in ships and implants. A 2-3 person griefercops is no match for a 20-30 person blob of rifter-flying industrialists. If you want to avoid putting your implants at risk, make a combat alt. It won't take much training time to make an alt that will be dangerous to them if you outnumber them, and not much practice time to learn to fly together. Quote: ...those who absolutely dont want to fight wars Would you be prepared to pay CONCORD for that privilege? That would make your proposal more supportable. In its current form, not supported.
Felix Jugo	Posted - 2009.09.26 17:53:00 - [9] One more thing -- don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a griefer. I'm not.
orphenshadow Gallente Easy Co.	Posted - 2009.09.27 14:38:00 - [10] Coming from a corp that's been wardec'd for the simple fact that the other corp assumed we were weak. I can see the frustration in the current system. However, I do not see any reason to make changes to the ability to Wardec as is. I think as a way for industrial corps to counter frivilous wardec's is to implement a merc system. Similar to how the bounties work. Where there is an in game market for merc corps for hire. You can place your bids/targets and corps can pick up the "contracts" in game. and after war is declared and fufilled they will be paid. This way if someone is grieving you. You have the ability to hire an army.
Mr Stark	Posted - 2009.09.27 15:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Felix Jugo Quote: It is aimed at making griefing have a price. Make them pay in ships and implants. A 2-3 person griefercops is no match for a 20-30 person blob of rifter-flying industrialists. If you want to avoid putting your implants at risk, make a combat alt. It won't take much training time to make an alt that will be dangerous to them if you outnumber them, and not much practice time to learn to fly together. Quote: ...those who absolutely dont want to fight wars Would you be prepared to pay CONCORD for that privilege? That would make your proposal more supportable. In its current form, not supported. Good idea about concord, perhaps paying for the privelage of being in the highest sec space... But as to the rest of the post, this is a post about wardecc mechanics, not personal preferences, I have fought wars, and so on, alot of pvp. But this post is about an ingame mechanic that is abused easily. The reason I proposed this is that I hear alot about why war is broken, but see almost no proposals about what to do about it. War is a great part of this game, and there should always be ways of going to war, but it shouldnt be a way fro griefers to legalise piracy in hisec. And no, I dont think your a griefer for disagreeing with me, the only people I think are griefers are the ones who go all emorage at me becasue this mechanic would limit their ability to shoot at defenceless people.
SolarKnight Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light	Posted - 2009.09.27 18:35:00 - [12] This is a harsh game,you consent to PVP the moment you undock. Wardecs can be a pain, but if you are smart you can prepare for them. Frigates are cheap, as are the mods to fit them effectively and pvp with smaller ships is a lot of fun. So stop complaining, start grouping up, and start standing up for yourself! The only thing that may need adjusting is the war dec system for corps, as prices haven't been adjusted since the game was started afaik, (unlike for alliances). So in short, not supported, learn to watch local, learn to play smart and above all, learn to have fun! The Light in the Darkness
Steven Williams	Posted - 2009.10.01 19:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Steven Williams on 01/10/2009 19:07:50 currently there are alot of merc/griefing corps out there that do pray on defencless carebears and those ppl that say otherwise are either stupid or roam around space with their monitors turned off. Any moron can see that the current wardecing facility is flawed, even CCP have stated as much. This would be a great option to have within the game. Atm, the carebears have market pvp, mission runners have oodles of missions and the pvpers have masses of systems to go pew pew in, how about developing the "BOUNTY HUNTER" side of the game?? Merc corps can put themselves up for hire or become an army for hire i point to a previous post shown below Originally by: orphenshadow [i]I think as a way for industrial corps to counter frivilous wardec's is to implement a merc system. Similar to how the bounties work. Where there is an in game market for merc corps for hire. You can place your bids/targets and corps can pick up the "contracts" in game. and after war is declared and fufilled they will be paid. This way if someone is grieving you. You have the ability to hire an army.
Yarik Mendel Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.01 19:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis Just as they want their ships to be immune from my combat PvP, I want my wallet to be immune to their market PvP. I like this man
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.01 20:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Foolish Bob on 01/10/2009 20:28:23 hey maybe the carebears hit upon something - charges for hisec living! Let's have docking fees and gate fees that scale with the sum of the trusec status of the last 100 systems you were in (min scale = 0) and the class of ship. Move most lvl 3 / 4 missions to lowsec (they're more dangerous missions - let them be in more dangerous space) and kick in the fees at the same time the training bonus expires. That way you can make the penalties for living in hisec punative without killing off the new player experience. surely only griefers could disagree, no? ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.01 20:29:00 - [16] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 01/10/2009 20:29:27 Originally by: Foolish Bob hey maybe the carebears hit upon something - charges for hisec living! Let's have docking fees and gate fees that scale with the sum of the trusec status of the last 100 systems you were in >0.4 and the class of ship. Move most lvl 3 / 4 missions to lowsec (they're more dangerous missions - let them be in more dangerous space) and kick in the fees at the same time the training bonus expires. That way you can make the penalties for living in hisec punative without killing off the new player experience. surely only griefers could disagree, no? Lets also charge major "bribes" for negative sec rated pirates to enter high sec. 5 times for every .1 or something. Oh I'm sorry... guess I took your name literally. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.01 20:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Drake Draconis CAREBEAR SMASH!! Aww... So cute! Seriously there's nothing of merit in the details of this thread. Sure we can argue for a revamp of the wardec system, but it shouldn't be to make it harder to grief people. This is eve. As was said in another place to another person Originally by: The Joe Zone Lyris Nairn > Now pay attention to this, Joe. Lyris Nairn > Joe, this isn't a game like most other games. In most other games, the type of behavior you're saying other people have done to you would not be tolerated. In most other games, your response would be justified. In most other games. Lyris Nairn > This is not those games, Joe. In EVE, people can and will do mean things just for the hell of it. Lyris Nairn > In EVE, people can and will keep a perpetual wardec going on you just because they dislike you. Lyris Nairn > In EVE, people can and will suicide gank you in high-sec if you try to hide from them. Lyris Nairn > In short, in EVE there are consequences for your behavior - and what's good or bad for you is not good or bad to someone else seeing it. THIS is what makes eve great. Anything that messes with this guiding principle needs a veto hammer. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.
Harrigan VonStudly Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.10.03 05:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly on 03/10/2009 05:40:47 Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly on 03/10/2009 05:39:26 Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly on 03/10/2009 05:38:28 Originally by: Steven Williams Edited by: Steven Williams on 01/10/2009 19:07:50 currently there are alot of merc/griefing corps out there that do pray on defencless carebears and those ppl that say otherwise are either stupid or roam around space with their monitors turned off. Any moron can see that the current wardecing facility is flawed, even CCP have stated as much. This would be a great option to have within the game. Atm, the carebears have market pvp, mission runners have oodles of missions and the pvpers have masses of systems to go pew pew in, how about developing the "BOUNTY HUNTER" side of the game?? Merc corps can put themselves up for hire or become an army for hire i point to a previous post shown below Originally by: orphenshadow [i]I think as a way for industrial corps to counter frivilous wardec's is to implement a merc system. Similar to how the bounties work. Where there is an in game market for merc corps for hire. You can place your bids/targets and corps can pick up the "contracts" in game. and after war is declared and fufilled they will be paid. This way if someone is grieving you. You have the ability to hire an army. As a member of a professional Merc alliance I reject your comment about mercs preying on defenseless carebear corps. If we are hired to dec a carebear corp, so be it. We will dec and we will hunt and we will kill. If they are defenseless then that is their problem. If the wardec mechanism is flawed, imho it's not easy enough. It should be made cheaper. This is a pvp game and wowpanzies, (uhhemm) I mean carebears should be lucky there are red pluses to shoot at at all.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.03 06:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Foolish Bob Foolish Response What makes EVE Great is when you fool someone into thinking your for something when in fact your not. I suggest you take a gander at the other current war-dec post and try again. Otherwise you really are... foolish bob for sure. Nice try.... as I said before... epic fail... big time. /me applauds Oh and if you didn't hear me that time... I do not support this proposal. Getting me this time? Turn up your hearing aid next time eh? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.03 10:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Foolish Bob Foolish Response What makes EVE Great is when you fool someone into thinking your for something when in fact your not. I suggest you take a gander at the other current war-dec post and try again. Otherwise you really are... foolish bob for sure. Nice try.... as I said before... epic fail... big time. /me applauds Oh and if you didn't hear me that time... I do not support this proposal. Getting me this time? Turn up your hearing aid next time eh? never suggested that you were for this proposal, but clearly there was something about my parody counter suggestion that bugged you or else why the flame? Nice attempt to deflect from your hasty posting, though. Sorry it didn't quite work. And so ends another dead thread. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.03 14:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Foolish Bob Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Foolish Bob Foolish Response What makes EVE Great is when you fool someone into thinking your for something when in fact your not. I suggest you take a gander at the other current war-dec post and try again. Otherwise you really are... foolish bob for sure. Nice try.... as I said before... epic fail... big time. /me applauds Oh and if you didn't hear me that time... I do not support this proposal. Getting me this time? Turn up your hearing aid next time eh? never suggested that you were for this proposal, but clearly there was something about my parody counter suggestion that bugged you or else why the flame? Nice attempt to deflect from your hasty posting, though. Sorry it didn't quite work. And so ends another dead thread. What you did was assume... like you usually do these days. Stop compensating for your shortcomings and start reading. Assumptions make you look stupid. I reacted that way because I strive for balance in game mechanics... people foolishly think that ditching one thing will cause no harm to the game as opposed to the other.... and vice versa. This isn't hello kitty online but nor is it gank online. It's EVE Online... the balance between high sec and 0.0 is required... yes its a problem but if you dont strike a balance your never going to get the problem solved. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Foolish Bob I never suggested that you were for this proposal, but clearly there was something about my parody counter suggestion that bugged you or else why the flame? Nice attempt to deflect from your hasty posting, though. Sorry it didn't quite work. And so ends another dead thread. What you did was assume... like you usually do these days. Stop compensating for your shortcomings and start reading. Assumptions make you look stupid. I reacted that way because I strive for balance in game mechanics... people foolishly think that ditching one thing will cause no harm to the game as opposed to the other.... and vice versa. This isn't hello kitty online but nor is it gank online. It's EVE Online... the balance between high sec and 0.0 is required... yes its a problem but if you dont strike a balance your never going to get the problem solved. wow - never have I seen a more elegant demonstration of the Einstein Infinity Postulate. Truly sir you are a master of the art. For future reference you might need the following: parody n. any humorous, satirical, or burlesque imitation, as of a person, event, etc. projection n. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt. I'll leave you alone now with your dead thread. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.03 16:50:00 - [23] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/10/2009 16:50:33 Thread title: 1) -10 points for mistyping "wardecs" in threat title 2) -20 points for branding everyone who disagrees a griefer (Neocon school of rhetoric maybe?) 3) -20 points for openly admitting that his suggestion is silly enough that it's effectively nothing more then flamebait. First sentence: 4) -20 points for openly admitting that his suggestion is not workable, but is at least 'a idea' and therefore somehow magically better then nothing. A incredibly stupid statement as it is. 5) -30 points for covering up that his idea sucks by suggesting that the real problem is that it's not polished. No, sorry. The problem isn't lack of polish, it's a stupid idea. Score: -100 Since the thread title and first sentence already contain a full post worth of stupid, there was little need to go on. Thank you for playing EVE forums. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kinori Kalrath	Posted - 2009.10.03 17:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Kinori Kalrath on 03/10/2009 17:23:40 Edit: Nevermind. My previous post was ridiculous and I must've been on something. Thumbs down.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.10.03 21:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Cpt Branko 1) -10 points for mistyping "wardecs" in threat title And you lose at life for mistyping 'thread', you complete and utter wastrel. OP: I like the idea. I don't support much these days, but I'm giving you my little thumb. I think this could be an interesting direction. --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Mr Stark	Posted - 2009.10.04 10:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/10/2009 16:50:33 Thread title: 1) -10 points for mistyping "wardecs" in threat title 2) -20 points for branding everyone who disagrees a griefer (Neocon school of rhetoric maybe?) 3) -20 points for openly admitting that his suggestion is silly enough that it's effectively nothing more then flamebait. First sentence: 4) -20 points for openly admitting that his suggestion is not workable, but is at least 'a idea' and therefore somehow magically better then nothing. A incredibly stupid statement as it is. 5) -30 points for covering up that his idea sucks by suggesting that the real problem is that it's not polished. No, sorry. The problem isn't lack of polish, it's a stupid idea. Score: -100 Since the thread title and first sentence already contain a full post worth of stupid, there was little need to go on. Thank you for playing EVE forums. I lolled, dont tell people about spelling, then go on to spell stuff wrong. Also, I didnt brand people who disagree as a griefer, I branded the people who would probably emorage at me as probable griefers (even if they post with an alt). Also, an idea is better than just bleating about others ideas. Also, move out of your mums basement, try speaking to real females, and stop wacking off over japanese schoolgirls. You may be allowed to join the human race. Also, Cybering doesnt count as real sex, you need to actually touch the other person. And lastly, if you dont like a suggestion, just post not supported. Itll save everyone from suffering your incredibly dull intelect.
Scerolikk Teromni	Posted - 2009.10.04 22:10:00 - [27] Originally by: orphenshadow I think as a way for industrial corps to counter frivilous wardec's is to implement a merc system. Similar to how the bounties work. Where there is an in game market for merc corps for hire. You can place your bids/targets and corps can pick up the "contracts" in game. and after war is declared and fufilled they will be paid. Yes. Mercenary contracts. I support this. I do not, however, support any of the OP changes. And of course it is reasonable from a storyline/RP point of view that CONCORD will accept money to look the other way. It's just like Earth.

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