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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
188
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Posted - 2012.06.12 02:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
I had an interesting discussion on TS3 with Muad the other day. Some things we agree on, some we have different views on. That's fine. Different people in different corps/alliances mean we have different approaches to FW.
What we DID both agree on is that the mechanics are too unbalanced at this point in time in favour of the Minmitar. This isn't a complaint about us having less systems etc... It is making a valid point that we are fighting with 1 hand tied behind our backs when noob alts can plex in ships without weapons whilst we need more than one person in a MAJOR and/or significantly more SP to achieve the same outcome.
Whilst the details about how some things should work (e.g. multiple timers etc...) might not be fully agreed on, we BOTH agree that killing the NPCs should be required to capture a plex. It is definately possible with the right ships/numbers whilst running the timer down (if not engaged by the enemy at which time the NPCs are often ignored due to the pressing danger). FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
746
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Posted - 2012.06.12 03:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
the FW mechanic has a severe design issue. It is designed to go out of balance quickly... which is fine, BUT it will stick in that state. The weaker side has a useless LP shop and has additionally to that LP gaining penalties. This makes recovery impossible if you see FW as a closed system (luckily it isnt).
The NPCs are joke. Minmatars can solo a major plex in a vigil in a noob char - entirely risk free since its costs basically nothing. Decontesting has the same time effort as contesting but has no rewards for the individual at all. Try this in a minmatar plex...
amarr is losing right now systems we just conquered last week. Its just not sustainable to defend them under those circumstances.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
78
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Posted - 2012.06.12 05:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hey i seen that ugly mug the op has somewhere.......was it you who headed up the nerfing of Incursions? yeah yeah you must have been the ******* behind it all. So you found something new to get nerfed. how many GOON/Pet alts will show you the support or will it be new toon on your accounts to post back an forth like GOONs do |
Haulie Berry
200
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Posted - 2012.06.12 05:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
In point of fact, the Amarr NPCs DO neut., but the range is short enough (and the ships slow enough) that a frigate orbiting the button is almost never actually threatened by them.
The disparity lies more with one side's npcs using missiles than with the ewar involved. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1029
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Posted - 2012.06.12 06:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Faction warfare should just be shut down. The changes came too little, too late, and haven't fixed any of the major imbalances that plague the system.
It's time to admit that the FW experiment was a dismal failure, remove it from the game and retcon its effect on the plot out of existence. Mane 614
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
188
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Hey i seen that ugly mug the op has somewhere.......was it you who headed up the nerfing of Incursions? yeah yeah you must have been the ******* behind it all. So you found something new to get nerfed. how many GOON/Pet alts will show you the support or will it be new toon on your accounts to post back an forth like GOONs do Whatever drugs you are on, stop taking them...
NEVER had anything to do with the goons. Also - if you had anything close to reading comprehension, I never asked for a nerf. I asked for a buff. Specifically to the difficulty of the Amarr NPCs... No one in the Amarr militia is asking for the NPCs we face to be nerfed to make them easier - just bring what the minmitar face up to the level we face...
P.S.
Go back to renting in null and troll somewhere else... FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
962
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Posted - 2012.06.12 12:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:Still no comments from a dev on this... Nice to see their interest in FW and a BALANCED war for us to fight in...
Give it three months and one of them will start yet another thread asking for information before once again not implementing any of the suggestions
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
33
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Posted - 2012.06.12 12:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
first off sound like the min and gal side of FW have there game in place and use there ships to the best bounes the ships give.
2nd Target painting and speed is a min thing there ship given boost to it deal with it.
3nd Cal jam. Amarr major armor res and thick armor and nuets. Gal.sen damp. and high dmg blasers that what there npcs do.
If your crying about fw plexing to bad you have not found the best way to do it like the gal and min forces have plus from the sounds of it fount line combat cal and amarr are not all that good at it why is that?
after reading all the posts here sound like the cal and amarr side of the fw dont have there stuff together and need to talk a bit more with each other and work out what there doing wrong.
AS for the Gal. and Min side of the FW GO GO GO! |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
192
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Posted - 2012.06.13 02:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
nat longshot wrote:first off sound like the min and gal side of FW have there game in place and use there ships to the best bounes the ships give.
2nd Target painting and speed is a min thing there ship given boost to it deal with it.
3nd Cal jam. Amarr major armor res and thick armor and nuets. Gal.sen damp. and high dmg blasers that what there npcs do.
If your crying about fw plexing to bad you have not found the best way to do it like the gal and min forces have plus from the sounds of it fount line combat cal and amarr are not all that good at it why is that?
after reading all the posts here sound like the cal and amarr side of the fw dont have there stuff together and need to talk a bit more with each other and work out what there doing wrong.
AS for the Gal. and Min side of the FW GO GO GO! Yeah, becuase a 2 week old char speed tanking a major in a frigate with a 10mn AB is TOTALLY the same as us having to tank the rats and kill them to get in range of the button to run it down... The Amarr HAVE worked out what they have to do to kill the rats in question. Bring a drake or something that can tank the rats.
And explain to me how a regular ship that isn't using any weapons (and therefore weapon bonuses), just using its mods to improve speed and agility is "using there ships to the best bonuses the ships give"? I remind you the fit I posted was a Rifter.
Quote:Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level.
Yeah - REALLY using those ship bonuses.
I assume you can see the difference here between the amount of SP required to have a throw away alt speed tanking vs. a dedicated character that has to effectively shoot the rats like you would in a level 4 mission...
Congratulations on showing all members of FW that understand the mechanics that you are an idiot with zero comprehension.
Just to nitpick because you are being a troll
1) It is a front, not a fount. 2) The news from the FRONT reflects EXACTLY what I have posted about. The Minmitar can win because their requirements to offensively plex a medium/major are SIGNIFICANTLY less than ours is... 3) "using their ships to the", not "using there ships to the " 4) "What they're doing wrong", not "what there doing wrong"
I could pick other issues with the language and grammer, but the general level DOES reflect your well reasoned and logically laid out arguments.
P.S.
AS for the Amarr side of the FW. GO GO GO! Woot Woot, OMGWTFBBQ!!!
FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
25
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:Easy solution: Keep ganking them for easy kills and to earn your own LP. Eventually the risk will outweigh the reward. Not when they warp out as soon as you come into the plex. They just log or move to another system and go again. This is the new version of the mission farming...
It's not like mission farming - Many FW missions are easier as there can be only 1 target to kill to complete the mission if the player knows which missions to pick and which to ignore. Very easy to get in and out without being attacked. Add to that 90% of the missions were done in Stealth Bombers so they could just cloak up and waste your time. FW Missions did not provide PvP to those looking for it.
With a plex you know they are stuck there for a minimum of 10min. This gives you the chance to get a fleet up and deny them the plexes almost everywhere they go - set up on the escape routes and catch them. If they change system - follow and repeat. The chances of pew have increased lots since the patch. I used to goto low sec and plex and not see anyone. Now there is lots of fun and games while plexing.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
192
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Har Harrison wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:Easy solution: Keep ganking them for easy kills and to earn your own LP. Eventually the risk will outweigh the reward. Not when they warp out as soon as you come into the plex. They just log or move to another system and go again. This is the new version of the mission farming... It's not like mission farming - Many FW missions are easier as there can be only 1 target to kill to complete the mission if the player knows which missions to pick and which to ignore. Very easy to get in and out without being attacked. Add to that 90% of the missions were done in Stealth Bombers so they could just cloak up and waste your time. FW Missions did not provide PvP to those looking for it. With a plex you know they are stuck there for a minimum of 10min. This gives you the chance to get a fleet up and deny them the plexes almost everywhere they go - set up on the escape routes and catch them. If they change system - follow and repeat. The chances of pew have increased lots since the patch. I used to goto low sec and plex and not see anyone. Now there is lots of fun and games while plexing. You obviously haven't seen the new wave of minmitar LP farmers who are not there to pvp, just farm massive LP in a system that lets them buy ships for next to no LP. So in that sense, they ARE the new FW carebear mission runner who is just there to make ISK and not to do FW. FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Soldarius
TreadStone Standard The 99 Percent
238
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Posted - 2012.06.13 03:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Reinstituting NPC EWAR might help reduce this crap. I mean, seriously. What respectable military force doesn't use EWAR of some kind?
I predicted this exact thing would happen when I tried it on SiSi. And look what? FW plexes are being farmed for r3t4rded amounts of LP by noob alts in speed-fit rifters with no weapons. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
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Posted - 2012.06.13 04:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:Still no comments from a dev on this... Nice to see their interest in FW and a BALANCED war for us to fight in...
CCP Soundwave wrote: Why would I want to balance a fight? That's never really been the goal in EVE and the war dec system wasn't built for that either.
Honestly this exploight of using 8 day old speedtank alts if done for directly PvP purposes woulda got a BAN notice by CCP IMHO since its on the sly thru PvE although it affects PvP 'balance' which is not supported its got a hilariously sad responce. The smart peeps in Amarr FW are training Minitmar speedtanking alts to cash in right now before the CCP Inferno bug fire brigade throws a bucket of water instead of a bucket of fuel on top of it like they did originally. The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
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ISD Stensson
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4
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Posted - 2012.06.13 04:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Please keep in mind rules about pyramid quoting.
Quote:Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome. ISD Stensson Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jhango Fett
Armada Ministry Defence Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
ISD Stensson wrote:Please keep in mind rules about pyramid quoting. Quote:Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome.
Makes it easier to follow, added spaces makes it easier to read and this is first I hear of it being unwelcome.
(You learn something new in EVE every day.)
Anyway, on topic and a bit off, how is FW VS running level 4s per hour now? I am curious. |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
193
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
ISD Stensson wrote:Please keep in mind rules about pyramid quoting. Quote:Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome. Where was the Pyramid quoting? Forums prevent too many nested quote levels and all the posts I see have reasonable spacing to make them readable rather than a wall of text.
ISD posting an off topic quote that is not related to the OP is more unwelcome IMHO... FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
370
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Posted - 2012.06.13 07:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
It's a very thin line. Plexes instigate PvP. You don't want the npc's to be so difficult that they inhibit it when a WT actually does show up. At the same time weaponless rifter a are ridiculous.
1) ewar is slated to be removed from plexes 2) one suggestion out there that is brutally simple is to have to kill the rats to move the plexes timer down. 3) divorce the two war fronts. You should only get lp for services on your own front. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
317
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Posted - 2012.06.13 07:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
seriously, no one thinks that having two buttons and rats that need to be killed before the second button appareas (or a gate is unlocked to another stage where a second button is) is a good idea?
I do :) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
981
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:ISD Stensson wrote:Please keep in mind rules about pyramid quoting. Quote:Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome. Where was the Pyramid quoting? Forums prevent too many nested quote levels and all the posts I see have reasonable spacing to make them readable rather than a wall of text. ISD posting an off topic quote that is not related to the OP is more unwelcome IMHO...
At least it means that someone at CCP has been following the thread.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
143
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
You guys need to read the forums more/better.
It was stated in Dopified's Warfare and Tactics thread by CCP that they will be balancing the NPCs "soon". The first step is removing the racial E-war.
Try to keep up before you whine.
PS - I agree its daft they didn't sort out NPCs before releasing the FW changes. Really daft. |
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
193
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Har Harrison wrote:ISD Stensson wrote:Please keep in mind rules about pyramid quoting. Quote:Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome. Where was the Pyramid quoting? Forums prevent too many nested quote levels and all the posts I see have reasonable spacing to make them readable rather than a wall of text. ISD posting an off topic quote that is not related to the OP is more unwelcome IMHO... At least it means that someone at CCP has been following the thread. Not really. ISD are volunteers. They don't work for CCP. CCP is just outsourcing forum moderation to some of the community FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
231
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:Har Harrison wrote:
How many systems do they own? Lots. They can take an offensive plex easier than we can - That means you can have more offensive opportunities than them
How many of them are empty? No idea - fighting on the front line When your enemy has you out numbered and out gunned you need to change tactics
How come you are not doing the same to them? We can't AFK a major in a rifter due to the amount of incoming MISSILE damage from TARGET PAINTING NPCs... That point is valid all the pesky gallente do is sensor damp
If I were in Amarr right at this very moment I would be in Aset/Turnir round that very quiet area gradually lifting the contention level.
I've suggested that to Amarr guys on the forums many times.. In fact I have an alt in Amarr that I sometimes log on.. I stuck him down in Brin area and started running a 4 system loop of minors. By the time I made my round to the 4th system I got a fight.
Few days later I did it again, and got a fight after the 2nd plex. If they want to attack & capture systems they should be hitting the back end systems where the farmers wont bother going.
The problem is while yes both Caldari & Minmatar can run plexes easier, the bulk of the whines about it being unfair are because they want to just easily farm plexes as well. It's not that they can't get PVP, but they want PVE made easier.
If you want PVP.. Then you choose the right ship for the size plex you intend to run and you go run it. If you want to play farmvile & warzone control you go play PVE with alts.. At least that's what seem to be the general trends. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
545
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:The problem is while yes both Caldari & Minmatar can run plexes easier, the bulk of the whines about it being unfair are because they want to just easily farm plexes as well. It's not that they can't get PVP, but they want PVE made easier No. You miss the point. But make them easier is what CCP is planning to do by removing e-war. The most popular fix presented by players is to enforce killing all NPCs to capture a plex. Thats not making PVE easier for farmer alts now is it?
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
193
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Mutnin wrote:The problem is while yes both Caldari & Minmatar can run plexes easier, the bulk of the whines about it being unfair are because they want to just easily farm plexes as well. It's not that they can't get PVP, but they want PVE made easier No. You miss the point. But make them easier is what CCP is planning to do by removing e-war. The most popular fix presented by players is to enforce killing all NPCs to capture a plex. Thats not making PVE easier for farmer alts now is it? Someone who gets it.
Amarr don't want the plexes made easier for US. We want them made HARDER for the Minmitar, coming in line with what we face!!! FW - Inferno is better, but you need to fix the NPCs and fix the plex bugs CCP |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
66
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
Someone suggested this already, but I'd like to see timers run back up once people leave the plex.
Force people to stay fight for their reward, instead of running to the next empty plex all day long, only to circle back when the system is clear. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
56
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Posted - 2012.06.13 14:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
The problem is the Amarr want to sit in their home systems and just PvP on stations and gates with carrier support and little risk of losing ships, and unlike the frogs, they haven't figured out that this isn't going to work in FW anymore. So now they must ***** because they have to actually move around and dare I say it, PvEww.
There is a reason that the Cal/Gal front is balanced, it's because we both go out and roam around plexing and PvPing. The Amarr don't do that and honestly how they are unable to stop offensive plexers is proof that they don't roam because they only own like 10 systems...How can you not stop people from plexing in so few systems? Honestly if the Amarr really wanted to **** of the minnies I would start making minny alts and just take all of the remaining Amarr systems so that the only place they could plex is in the Cal/Gal front. See how much they like missile spam and SeBo arty Thrashers abound. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
545
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Posted - 2012.06.13 14:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
Schalac wrote:The problem is the Amarr want to sit in their home systems and just PvP on stations and gates with carrier support and little risk of losing ships, And where did you make up that information? We have welped 2.5k ships this month so far. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
56
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Posted - 2012.06.13 15:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Schalac wrote:The problem is the Amarr want to sit in their home systems and just PvP on stations and gates with carrier support and little risk of losing ships, And where did you make up that information? We have welped 2.5k ships this month so far. Fweddit is an anomaly in the Amarr scene. You guys are slowly bringing Amarr out of the funk it's in, credit due, but the rest of the militia...
Honestly, I see your best course of action, and that is seppuku. Let all the Amarr systems get taken, take part with minny alts if necessary. Let the LP fountain run dry and force CCP to look at NPC balancing. At the same time it forces minny pilots to do Cal plexes and those can't be done as easy as Amarr. |
Bronnwynn
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
0
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Posted - 2012.06.13 15:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
This is not quite as cut-and-dry as you make it seem. The Amarr can camp our stations in high sec with much more impunity, and have a more favorable resist profile when attacking. To be honest, what should be done is to have no EW or the same EW, and omni resist/damage profiles in plexes. It shouldn't be preferred to be one race over another, in what you fly or what you face. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
271
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Posted - 2012.06.13 15:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:It's not like mission farming - It's worse!
Seriously,they are the same in that the farmer can bail with little to no consequences. They just move on to next mission/plex a few jumps away. Then they come back after the "griefer" gets bored and goes looking elsewhere for targets.
There should be a way for the "griefer" to win other than staying to cap a plex with no chance of a fight, or camping a mission forever.
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