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BC 5 or cruisers 5?

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Folen Death Caldari Pegasus Reborn Research Corp Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2009.10.08 09:34:00 - [1] Hi I have 11m sp and still haven't gotten to tech 2 ships (can use most of the tech 2 mods) Now I like the harbie and learning to pvp (x punisher tackle for now) and am thinking to start solo (small gang) with harbie (easer on the pocket than tech 2 cruisers and I really like flying it). So am thinking of training BC 5 instead of the usual route of cruiser 5 then BC 5. What do you guys think? Should I train BC 5 then the turret skills or should I got cruisers 5 then all turret skills then BC 5? Thanks Folen
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.08 10:00:00 - [2] T2 ships are specialised ships; hacs, recons, hics, T3. If you don't have a specific reason to fly the T2 cruisers and don't have the wallet/experience to use them then by all means stick to BC's for a while, but I'm not sure going BC 5 for a Harb is worth it if you have tons of other stuff to train. I'd stick to BC 4, train turret/support skills and later on decide where to go, T2 ships don't work without proper fittings and support skills.
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.08 10:20:00 - [3] As Marko said, T2 ships need a lot of support skills. So I would stick to cruiser 5 and BC 4 until you get T2 guns and tanking abilities. Cruiser 5 along with the other requirements give you acces to Heavy Assult Cruisers and Recons, As far as I know BC 5 is not a requirement for any other ship in game, but that is not a hard fact coming from me. So with that said I would not train Cruiser 5 till you meet all the requirements, for either of the two ship classes listed above, till you can afford to fit them properly, and afford the loss. HACs and Recons are not cheap. Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! =v=
Free Folen	Posted - 2009.10.08 10:32:00 - [4] About support skills I have allot 11m sp and 99% of the points are in combat/combat related skills ( aka pg ,CPU and cap) In couple of days I will have tech2 med laser and I can fit 90% of the tech 2 mods (tech2 mining and web I don't have) So I think my support skills are fine, unless you think I need to have all support turret skills at 5 (like Controlled Bursts and Trajectory Analysis support skills)
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.10.08 11:17:00 - [5] You'll get FAR more benefit out of training up T2 turrets, compared to the relatively minor bonuses of BC5. I won't go into the whole bigger isn't always better argument and try to convince you to fly frigates while you learn PvP....but I'll plant that seed and let you think about it. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Recruitment Re-opening Soon.
Dodgy Past Amarr Lollipops for Rancors	Posted - 2009.10.08 11:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 08/10/2009 11:41:18 Can you afford to fly HACs yet, and would you have a use for any of them? I'm in pretty much the same boat as you, while I do have Amarr BS IV and Large Energy Turrets IV for mission grinding for isk / worm holing pretty much all of my other SP has gone towards the Harbinger and Arbitrator as those are the only 2 T1 sub BS ships that appeal to me. Right now I'm training shield skills for a specific Harbinger fit that is faster than plated cruisers and then I reach my crossroads. Personally I do think BC V is an option if you find the harbinger does everything you want, though Rapid Firing V and Medium Pulse Spec IV will have a quicker pay off so grab those first if you don't have them. Surgical strike V is actually less time efficient than BC V if that's what you want to concentrate on. Having said that since I can afford to sometimes play with the more expensive T2 toys and I have potential uses for T3 I'm going to get Interceptors, AFs, Covops and support skills to go with those and then onto the HACs. BC V isn't ever going to be wasted as it's a pre-requ. for the Absolution.
Folen Death Caldari Pegasus Reborn Research Corp Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2009.10.08 11:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Baka Lakadaka You'll get FAR more benefit out of training up T2 turrets, compared to the relatively minor bonuses of BC5. I won't go into the whole bigger isn't always better argument and try to convince you to fly frigates while you learn PvP....but I'll plant that seed and let you think about it. I think am not making myself clear 1) In 5 days I will have tech 2 turrets 2) And am doing the frig thingy, all my kills are in a frig (but one with my harbie while ratting and a UK tried to gank me in a vaga) I want the harbie for solo/ really small gang, after insurance I shouldn't lose more than 15m a harbie lose The turret skills am talking about are the support ones, 3% dmg, tracking, range and cap use (which I got 3/4 witch am thinking of making 5 later on)
Cutie Chaser Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.10.08 12:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Folen Death I think am not making myself clear 1) In 5 days I will have tech 2 turrets 2) And am doing the frig thingy, all my kills are in a frig (but one with my harbie while ratting and a UK tried to gank me in a vaga) I want the harbie for solo/ really small gang Train BC5, I did not regret when I did, and I doubt very much that you will either. You've got the skills soon to fully t2-fit a harbinger soon, so you might as well get BC5 since that is the ship you want to fly. That being said, you couldn't go wrong with training controlled bursts to 5, and then all other turret support skills to 4. So take a second and get the ones you have at 3 up to 4, and do controlled bursts, then do BC5. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.08 12:42:00 - [9] Well, personally I would go for HAC's first. Then while you are playing with the HAC's then train BC 5, within a month or so you will have both. Originally by: Free Folen p.s : "Slade Trillgon" in eve forums NV Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! =v=
Ruban Spangler Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.08 12:47:00 - [10] Cruiser 5 first because it gives you more ship options and T2 cruisers are fun to fly. This is coming from someone who went BS5 > C5 > BC5. I went back for BC5 before HACs or other T2 fits in order to max a cheap PVP support boat. Bene Gesserit is recruiting.

Folen Death Caldari Pegasus Reborn Research Corp Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2009.10.08 13:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Folen Death on 08/10/2009 13:15:43 Originally by: Slade Trillgon Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 08/10/2009 12:47:36 Originally by: Free Folen p.s : "Slade Trillgon" in eve forums NV Slade i live in CVA space ( CVA friendly) and UK is red in CVA space , so everytime i see a UK guy i use the intel channel , so i was making a joke about it( posting you , where you are and "not visible", i don't know your ship)( UK dude helping me about ammar ships ) thanks allot for you advice thougth
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.10.08 13:22:00 - [12] Ah I understand Well, good luck and catch you later Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! =v=
Pan Dora Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.08 16:10:00 - [13] Personaly I sugest to train ship skills to lvl V only when: -its pre-requisite for other ships you want to fly. (eg: Cruise V if you want to fly HAC) -its a ship (or ship class) that you use most of time, and the bonuses are good. (eg, BC V if you fly the harbie most of the time) -the bonuses are very good(sometimes critical for the ship role) and you use the ship with a good frequency. (eg: covert ops V for the scan strengh bonus and cloacking fitting bonus) Also, if there is a support skill that has a similar effect train the support skill. _ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game.
Avan Sercedos The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.10.08 16:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Well, good luck and catch you later I see what you did there.
Modrak Vseth Veto.	Posted - 2009.10.08 16:52:00 - [15] Wait on BC5. On the surface it seems like a great skill to train since you like to fly the Harbi, but it's not worth it at this point in your skill plan. How long will BC5 take to train? I don't have your skillsheet or implants listed so I don't know, but I'll guess maybe 35 days. What else could you learn in those 35 days and could you learn anything that would give you the same benefits that BC5 would in less time? Let's take a look. BC5 BC skill bonuses in relation to Harbi - 10% reduction in laser capacitor need and 5% bonus to laser damage per level. BC skill bonuses in relation to Prophecy - 10% reduction in medium energy weapon capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances. Allows training of Command Ships but Command Ships require either Logistics IV or HAC IV, which require Cruiser V anyway. In total, this ~35 days in training gives you 10% reduction in cap use of medium lasers, 5% bonus to medium laser damage and 5% bonus to all armor resists and only effects 2 ships. Alternate skills Controlled Bursts (2X multiplier) - 5% reduction in capacitor need for ALL turrets (including laser AND Hybrid of ALL sizes). EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Armor Compensation - To active armor hardeners: 3% bonus per skill level to Armor Explosive resistance when the modules are not active. To passive armor hardeners: 5% bonus per skill level to Armor Explosive resistance. Effects ALL ships with armor resist mods. Again, I don't have your skillsheet to look at, but 2 levels of controlled bursts will give you the same bonus as BC5 for weapon cap usage and probably takes less a couple of days AND effects ALL Hybrids and Lasers, regardless of size. The 4 armor resists comp skills will take about a week IIRC to get all to IV but that's a significant bonus to passive hardeners (and active hardeners if you run out of cap). Being able to use passive hardeners (ie EANM, resistance plates, etc) for only a slight decrease in resistance bonus versus active hardeners can drastically change your options when fitting a ship. In all, you've spent about 1/5 of the time training skills that will give you the same bonus to the Harbi and Prophecy, will effect at least a dozen other ships AND you still have a lot of time to train other skills, such as Thermodynamics IV (I loves me some overheating).
Chathe Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.08 18:50:00 - [16] BC 5 unlocks command ships but command ships also reqire C 5 of the race in question to fly. So .... yep.


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