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Cutie Chaser
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.09 17:26:00 -
[1]
A question to the devs, but I welcome any outside speculation:
Do you expect the costs to upgrade systems to be sufficient to counteract the previous ISK sink that running so many POSes was?
If not, you are reconsider this solution.
In fact, if you don't have plans to already, you should include an upkeep cost to keep upgrades in place.
Also, consider doubling whatever numbers you come up with so that the new system can help serve to reduce the inflation in the current market.
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Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Dregek
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.10.09 17:35:00 -
[2]
more than likely it will be enough now that they are rebalancing r64 materials and its already going to cost x amount per system multiplied by number of systems to hold the sov,
imho if a system is upgraded it should incur an increase in cost to run it. people paying for the system to be upgraded then it must be used regularly/constantly to warrant it and as such can support a larger bill
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.11 08:54:00 -
[3]
the exponential size muitliplayer is a good idea. WIll constrain mega alliances but then again maybe not. This is just a first stage planetary interaction and dust impacts come later on
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Draahk Chimera
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.11 09:56:00 -
[4]
Actually the current (POS) system isn't an ISK-sink. The money goes to the ice-miners and as such stays in game. The new system will take money out of the game.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.11 11:59:00 -
[5]
And those ice miners strangely mine ice 23/7 every single day in the same belt. Just an observation.
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.10.11 14:05:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Actually the current (POS) system isn't an ISK-sink. The money goes to the ice-miners and as such stays in game. The new system will take money out of the game.
Wrong since half the costs of running a POS are trade items such as enriched uranium and coolant which are bought from NPCs (some tiny amounts drop from missions ect)
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 04:12:00 -
[7]
there will no doubt be lots of changes onces its in depending on CCP balancing policies large alliances at least to start with will want lots of space to hold - the more space they hold the more they end up paying for each subseuqent system. so one might be 1m, 2 systems 3m ( 1+2) 3 systems would be 6m ( 1-2-3 = 6) and it would grow from there a bit like war decs
CCP would probably find that more pew pew combat will also become an isk sink. So there are lots of new feedback loops that will develop as a result of this and then planetary interaction will provide additional changes
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Rip Minner
Gallente
Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2009.10.12 05:32:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/10/2009 05:32:46
Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/10/2009 05:32:19
I have read the dev post about this and they were kind of vage and gave the kind of impression that want you upgrade is dependent on what you use and how much of it you use.
So that left me wondering if you set up pos's on every moon in system and moon mine can you up grade your moon mins in system?
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 05:41:00 -
[9]
yes its an interesting one. Will wormholes still generate into systems to ? will the ratting activity of neuts that slip into youre space while its empty count towards the cap. CVA should have a benefit here in that providence having no NPC stations will have ltos of ratters and therefore along with their industrial and amarr supporting base should be able to offer better access to their space if they upgrade from 950k rats to the highest level bs and officer spawns. However that will require more policing instead of true sec status now it becomes those alliances at peasce will have the best space and be targets. CCP has deisgned this system well it will be interesting to see how it pans out
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Ex Mudder
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:12:00 -
[10]
It will depend. Under current rules you need at least 6 Large POSs to hold Sov in a potentially contested system, particularly a station system, so that is around 600 million isk per month per system in fuel. Depends on whether the cost per system is more, less, or the same as that, and what the benefits of paying for Sov is. For example, if you can only cynojam station systems, why bother to pay for Sov in non station systems, and just shoot anyone else who tries to claim Sov there?
Might play havoc with JB networks, if it is too expensive to claim the systems to justify the expense of putting a JB there. This is why I think you will not see anyone giving up space, you will just see a swiss cheese effect as much of the space goes sov-less because no one wants to pay for it, and the big alliances will pound anyone who tries to claim space in their sphere of influence without their permission.
The main economic impact I can see is a drop in the price of most ice products, making non gallente ice mining less lucrative.
And what inflation is that? The Eve market is deflationary last I checked, except in the area of mods and ships requiring Ferrogel. And that can be fixed by boosting hourly ferrogel output from its current rate of 400 units/hr per complex reaction.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:16:00 -
[11]
Ya I want to see how this plays out too. I use to work with a brother corp to fill orders for compested mins to Allances that have stoped buying. CVA as a main buyer but after they kicked everyones ass that was fighting them that stoped.
Will be more then happy to start supplying again though if there systems come under heavy fire again :)
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:20:00 -
[12]
has anyone given thought that the jump bridge networks will be removed entirely or more tempoarary bridges allowed remmeber ccp wants to reduce the sprawl of the large alliances mroe wormholes but less JB might be the answer - titans would have an enhanced role then
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Rip Minner
Gallente
Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:22:00 -
[13]
Ya I was thinking about the cheez effect too. Only pay for station systems/JB systems and R64 moon systems. Pound anyone that trys to move into the empty systems.
Thats also why I was wondering if you can upgrade moon mins.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:36:00 -
[14]
ccp needs to make it mroe random. Perhaps moon upgrades might lead to bette rmaterials but .... remember
Supply of dypso is being expanded. But at the same time t2 production will need less dpsyo and more r16 and 32 minerals which means its shifting towards the middle of the moon chain and theres lots of them around. Prices will rise in the middle making operating thees poses more profitable.
Changes to cap ship will mean taking down poses will be 10-15% easier
Plus comets that can be mined and contain moon goo arent coming in dominions but very close behind they will be exploration ( wh space will have the best but hardest defenses followed by 00, low sec and high sec) these comet fragments will contain random moon materials in small amounts further breaking the moon chain
Then dont forget planets and their impact on production chainms with organic compounds
T2 suplies are being boosted across the board 50% insurance rebate on t2 ship losses. production tiems are being sped up, material requirements in the middle beefed but top end being reduced. So supply is fixed, demand is fixed ( skill reqs being lowered to for some t2 stuff)
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Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.10.12 10:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cutie Chaser
A question to the devs, but I welcome any outside speculation:
Do you expect the costs to upgrade systems to be sufficient to counteract the previous ISK sink that running so many POSes was?
If not, you are reconsider this solution.
In fact, if you don't have plans to already, you should include an upkeep cost to keep upgrades in place.
Also, consider doubling whatever numbers you come up with so that the new system can help serve to reduce the inflation in the current market.
Upkeep is supposed to scale up with infrastructure upgrades. Brilliant, isn't it? |
Fotti
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Posted - 2009.10.12 14:42:00 -
[16]
I see isotopes and heavy water crashing (if heavy water can really be worth anything less) and stront skyrocketing. A lot of empire mackinaws will be hanging up their ice harvesters when dominion hits.
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Cutie Chaser
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.12 17:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Upkeep is supposed to scale up with infrastructure upgrades. Brilliant, isn't it?
Well, it just comes down to the question of whether or not the upkeep costs will be sufficient to counteract the massive number of POSes that will be coming off-line with the release of the new system.
Just because they have an upkeep cost doesn't mean they've crunched the numbers to ensure it will be equivalent :P
***
Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.10.13 05:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cutie Chaser
Well, it just comes down to the question of whether or not the upkeep costs will be sufficient to counteract the massive number of POSes that will be coming off-line with the release of the new system.
Just because they have an upkeep cost doesn't mean they've crunched the numbers to ensure it will be equivalent :P
The POS in old sovereignty had some purpose - the defense of your space, it was an investement.
Charging you because you care and work more in your space is just ridiculous. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 10:15:00 -
[19]
moon pos still have a very valid role ingame. They will be moon mining and a remote base of operations. Processing planet, safe spot and so forth and so forth
Sov will depend on sov control of the sov markers, planetary control, perhaps planetary development and yet unknown other factors ccp thinks about 40 factors all up in terms of how sov will work
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