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Stakard Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.12 19:41:00 - [1] I've been looking at getting a Marauder for mission running but wasn't sure which is better, Kronos or Golem. Thoughts anyone?
Noemi Nagano	Posted - 2009.10.12 19:45:00 - [2] Golem. Only reason to not take a Golem would be you cant fly it and dont have SP in missiles ;)
Borasatar	Posted - 2009.10.12 19:45:00 - [3] Golem can pick its damage type.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.10.12 20:29:00 - [4] golem although if you have damn good gallente skills and bs 5 already might be worth getting one to use in the mean time. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
Alberico DeSandre	Posted - 2009.10.12 22:33:00 - [5] I have gallente bship V. Kronos is junk. Railguns just don't compete with missiles and tech2 makes the gap even wider.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.12 22:46:00 - [6] Golem has better dps, much better tank, same range. There are a couple of missions against serpentis that a kronos does well in, in all others it's crap. And no all lvl 5s doesn't make it better.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.10.12 22:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Gariuys Golem has better dps, much better tank, same range. There are a couple of missions against serpentis that a kronos does well in, in all others it's crap. And no all lvl 5s doesn't make it better.[/quote Don't think you're quite correct about the ''same range'' bit
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.12 23:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Gariuys on 12/10/2009 23:11:49 Golem with Javelins is about 60km range ( with rigs etc. ) Kronos with rails, and antimatter is 36km optimal with 30 falloff. If you go with thorium you get a 63km optimal, but at that point you're doing 60% or so of the damage the golem is doing. You can use even longer range ammo with the kronos but for missions that's irrelevant since anything that's outside 60km..... For missions against serpentis/guristas/other therm/kin heavy factions. A Kronos performs quite similair really to a golem, less damage, but no delay which kinda makes up for it. But against anything else a golem can adapt, and that a kronos really doesn't do well at all. Which is the main point to use a golem really.
Solo Quest Space Perverts D0GS OF WAR	Posted - 2009.10.12 23:44:00 - [9] Without question the Golem.
Noemi Nagano	Posted - 2009.10.13 09:16:00 - [10] One thing about delay with missiles vs guns which many ppl seem to forget - you have delay only with the very first salvo fired. This is because you will know how many salvoes to fire to your target and flip to the next when the right ammount of firepower is on the way, so you lose only with the first salvo and when you do it right you would in theory end up with just 1 flight time more than the perfect gun-boat - if it would deal the same damage like your missile-ship, which it wont ;)

Giannamichaels	Posted - 2009.10.13 09:36:00 - [11] both have strengths, i love the kronos vs serps and guristas becaus ei can kill frigs in 1 volley and cruisers in 2 volleys instant damage at over 110km. Golem is the ultimate boat with max skills torps and tech 2 rigs. If you have great large hybrid skills and armor skills get a kronos, if your skills lie in missiles and shields get a golem
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.10.13 10:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Giannamichaels both have strengths, i love the kronos vs serps and guristas becaus ei can kill frigs in 1 volley and cruisers in 2 volleys instant damage at over 110km. Golem is the ultimate boat with max skills torps and tech 2 rigs. If you have great large hybrid skills and armor skills get a kronos, if your skills lie in missiles and shields get a golem tbh if you have great large hybrid skills and armor skills train great large laser skills and get a paladin. then, while missioning in the paladin star training for the golem if you want lots of iskies
DARTHxFREE State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:03:00 - [13] Edited by: DARTHxFREE on 13/10/2009 11:05:18 Got a pimp Kronos on this acount, and a pimp Golem on another acount, both 60m SP characters so every related skill to 5. I really notice no difference in performance for gurista agent lvl 4's. So for poeple to say "hands down" or "unquestionably" is hard to belive. Conclusion: Kronos is limited to Gallente/Caldari agents. Go with either you currant skills or what ever skill you would be happyest with, Missles + Shield vs Gun + Armour. Correction on some ones post earlyer, a mission fit Kronos does 48km opt + 30km fall off with Antimatter, seldom do you need change to a ranged ammo. At max, a sentry drone Kronos will do about 1,010 dps Golem has a higher max, but also needs to use Javelin torps quite often, resulting in a lower DPS . /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Einherji	Posted - 2009.10.13 11:53:00 - [14] In a torp golem you dont want to kill rats that are 40km+ away from you, sure there are a few that orbit around 50km but not many. I use a torp golem with 3 tractors and I tractor all wrecks into a big wreck ball and then I bring my alt in to salvage in a hurricane. But if you are looking for a ship that makes real good isk/lp a hour dont use a golem but if you salvage the golem is the king.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.10.13 12:11:00 - [15] Edited by: small chimp on 13/10/2009 12:11:52 how much dps does golem or kronos do? Can golem instapop approaching frigates (non mwd)?
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.13 12:31:00 - [16] Originally by: small chimp Edited by: small chimp on 13/10/2009 12:11:52 how much dps does golem or kronos do? Can golem instapop approaching frigates (non mwd)? Yes, I tend to right click "Engage Target" only once, and it pops all frigates. So basically I one shot ALL frigates, not just one per volley. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 421456
small chimp	Posted - 2009.10.14 17:38:00 - [17] what what how do you get 1400dps from golem?
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.14 17:48:00 - [18] If you use CN Siege with CN Torps and 2/2/1 drones you get 1426 DPS @ 45km... which is pretty honking impressive tbqfh. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sulg Quicksilver Industries Amici Noctis	Posted - 2009.10.14 17:49:00 - [19] Maybe this is PvP thinking, but if the difference isn't huge normally a good pilot can make up for any inferiority in their ship. Or maybe it's just my subconscious groaning, because it's not like all we see missioners running with are Caldari ships. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Warp speed is not fast enough. We must go straight to...ludicrous speed!
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.14 18:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Sulg Maybe this is PvP thinking, but if the difference isn't huge normally a good pilot can make up for any inferiority in their ship. Or maybe it's just my subconscious groaning, because it's not like all we see missioners running with are Caldari ships. It's not that Golem is better than all other marauders. Far from. It's that Kronos and Vargur both are substantially worse than paladin and golem. And in regards to min/maxing pilot skill can never make up for a bad ship, since player skill is presumed to be optimized. Yes, a horrible pilot in a great ship is next to useless, and a great pilot in horrible ship still works. Both will fold to a great pilot in a great ship, and hopefully players will evolve and eventually become atleast decent. As for the 1400 dps, the comparisson was as mentioned done with high damage t2 ammo(as unrealistic as it may be) in both cases. That's why the kronos got so high, that's why the golem got so high. Faction damage mods and implants in both cases. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 207821

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.14 18:18:00 - [21] Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 13/10/2009 12:45:58 Originally by: small chimp Edited by: small chimp on 13/10/2009 12:11:52 how much dps does golem or kronos do? Can golem instapop approaching frigates (non mwd)? Yes, I tend to right click "Engage Target" only once, and it pops all frigates. So basically I one shot ALL frigates, not just one per volley. 10/10, best way to deal with frigs and 1400 dps is very much doable with rage torps+hammerheads on a golem (1420 dps with my alts skills (maxed except torp spec 5), and 5% rof/damage implants). I just wouldn't use them on anything other then double/triple painted battleships, or structures. (might be usable on battle cruisers, would have to test)
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.10.14 18:22:00 - [22] Edited by: stoicfaux on 14/10/2009 18:24:32 Deleted. Reading comprehension ftw. =P ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.14 18:24:00 - [23] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/10/2009 18:25:48 Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren If you use CN Siege with CN Torps and 2/2/1 drones you get 1426 DPS @ 45km... which is pretty honking impressive tbqfh. Impressive, but only against anything bigger than a battleship. If you slow a Pith Exterminator to .1 m/s velocity, and you sic your drones on it, then you can probably kill the Pith Exterminator with two salvos instead of three. CN Torp launchers simply have a higher ROF - which IMO is somewhat useless as long as you're stuck using TPs... -Liang Ed: Not that ROF is useless - far from it... just that it's not nearly as useful as it might be. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sentious Trill Pakistani Taxi Drivers	Posted - 2009.10.15 01:44:00 - [24] For in the flesh damage, my aces missile trained alt gets 7500 to 8000 damage in a single volley against certain npc BS's. 2 volleys and they are dead. Not sure what kind of hi end volley damage the other marauders get though. Maybe someone could post their better volley damage here.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.15 01:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Sentious Trill For in the flesh damage, my aces missile trained alt gets 7500 to 8000 damage in a single volley against certain npc BS's. 2 volleys and they are dead. Not sure what kind of hi end volley damage the other marauders get though. Maybe someone could post their better volley damage here. pretty sure torp golem wins on alpha, paladin was a bit over 6k, kronos around 4k, and varg around 3k. ( I rounded a bit so what)
Alty McAltyalt	Posted - 2009.10.15 01:58:00 - [26] Go with Kronos. You can shoot ninjas then. BECAUSE OF AWESOME WEB.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.15 02:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton pretty sure torp golem wins on alpha, paladin was a bit over 6k, kronos around 4k, and varg around 3k. ( I rounded a bit so what) Torp Golem = 8300 alpha (CN Torps) [1182 missile DPS] (45km) Tach Paladin = 6300 alpha (AN MF) [915 turret DPS] (45km) AC Vargur = 2900 alpha (RF EMP) [960 turret DPS]* (4km) 425 Kronos = 3850 alpha (CN AM) [851 turret DPS] (50km) * I wouldn't really use faction ammo here. The consumption rate is out of this world. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kenerian	Posted - 2009.10.15 03:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton pretty sure torp golem wins on alpha, paladin was a bit over 6k, kronos around 4k, and varg around 3k. ( I rounded a bit so what) Torp Golem = 8300 alpha (CN Torps) [1182 missile DPS] (45km) Tach Paladin = 6300 alpha (AN MF) [915 turret DPS] (45km) AC Vargur = 2900 alpha (RF EMP) [960 turret DPS]* (4km) 425 Kronos = 3850 alpha (CN AM) [851 turret DPS] (50km) * I wouldn't really use faction ammo here. The consumption rate is out of this world. -Liang Liang, I see your posts in every thread. Are you human or are you some form of super computer? Or maybe both.....
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.15 03:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Kenerian Liang, I see your posts in every thread. Are you human or are you some form of super computer? Or maybe both..... I'm a cybernetic organism: living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kenerian	Posted - 2009.10.15 04:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Kenerian Liang, I see your posts in every thread. Are you human or are you some form of super computer? Or maybe both..... I'm a cybernetic organism: living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. -Liang Arnold Schwarzenegger?!

Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.10.15 05:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton pretty sure torp golem wins on alpha, paladin was a bit over 6k, kronos around 4k, and varg around 3k. ( I rounded a bit so what) Torp Golem = 8300 alpha (CN Torps) [1182 missile DPS] (45km) Tach Paladin = 6300 alpha (AN MF) [915 turret DPS] (45km) AC Vargur = 2900 alpha (RF EMP) [960 turret DPS]* (4km) 425 Kronos = 3850 alpha (CN AM) [851 turret DPS] (50km) * I wouldn't really use faction ammo here. The consumption rate is out of this world. -Liang Can I see that kronos fit? I'm not insinuating you're a liar by any means, but I can't seem to duplicate those numbers and it makes me quite jealous.
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2009.10.15 06:04:00 - [32] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2009 06:05:04 No problem: [Kronos, PVE] Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x2 (I'm presently wondering if I accidentally left drone DPS on for the Kronos in my other post... checking momentarily). At any rate, implants = CR8, AX2, CC8, G2-D, ZGL DPS = 808@51+30, 4041 alpha (928 incl Gardes) -Liang Ed: Ya, left drones in on the Kronos. My apologies. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.15 11:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2009 06:06:07 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton pretty sure torp golem wins on alpha, paladin was a bit over 6k, kronos around 4k, and varg around 3k. ( I rounded a bit so what) Torp Golem = 8300 alpha (CN Torps) [1182 missile DPS] (45km) Tach Paladin = 6300 alpha (AN MF) [915 turret DPS] (45km) AC Vargur = 2900 alpha (RF EMP) [960 turret DPS]* (4km) 425 Kronos = 3850 alpha (CN AM) [808 turret DPS]** (50km) * I wouldn't really use faction ammo here. The consumption rate is out of this world. ** Incl implants, and edited because the first iteration left drone DPS on. Whoops. -Liang Worth mentioning is: Alpha in missions is a bad thing. It means slower rate of fire, which together with dps is all that really matters. Yes, alpha is awesome if you can remove a battleship in 2 volleys and the battleship survives _exactly_ 2 volleys. If it would've survived 1.5 volleys, you'd be way better of with something that puts out half your volley damage under same dps. Golem is the only ship of the above mentioned that can ever see it's alpha hit these levels. There are NPC's with a single resistance at 0, there's no NPC's with two or more resistances at 0. This is of course excluding hullshots. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 705705
Fuazzole	Posted - 2009.10.15 12:51:00 - [34] Poeple make it sound like the golem is 2-3x better then the Kronos, so if a Kronos will do; Gurista Extravaganza - All targets killed + bonus gate 38 minutes. I'd expect a Golem to have it done in no less then 20minuntes. And on that ticket Gone Berserk = 5min Pirate Invasion = 7.5min Damsel = 5min Paladin will do an extra 8-9% DPS on the Kronos but I do think after resistance the Kronos > Palabin for Gurista missions.
Fuazzole	Posted - 2009.10.15 12:59:00 - [35] Originally by: NoNah Worth mentioning is: Alpha in missions is a bad thing. It means slower rate of fire, which together with dps is all that really matters. Yes, alpha is awesome if you can remove a battleship in 2 volleys and the battleship survives _exactly_ 2 volleys. If it would've survived 1.5 volleys, you'd be way better of with something that puts out half your volley damage under same dps. Yeah I go by this to Something no ones seems to get with the Palabin; Ungroup your guns <- Decreases Volly If 1-3 of your 4 guns were enuf, you have just lost DPS from the other guns. Use Mega Beam II Why, becuase you get to fit an Aerator II rig resulting in MORE dps then tachyons (tach's can't fit Aerator unless tanking with a medium rep) Also, Mega Beam damage comes in smaller vollys, also a good thing.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.10.15 13:37:00 - [36] Well i found that making 2 groups of tachys work well on my nightmare. 4 is better ofc /like 30s on mission/, but i cant be bothered to control f1-f4 instead of f1-f2.
Cpt Farnham InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.10.15 14:27:00 - [37] So is it just the case that the range of blasters sucks even with t2 ammo, resulting in the Kronos needing to use rails?
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.15 14:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Fuazzole Poeple make it sound like the golem is 2-3x better then the Kronos, so if a Kronos will do; Gurista Extravaganza - All targets killed + bonus gate 38 minutes. I'd expect a Golem to have it done in no less then 20minuntes. And on that ticket Gone Berserk = 5min Pirate Invasion = 7.5min Damsel = 5min Paladin will do an extra 8-9% DPS on the Kronos but I do think after resistance the Kronos > Palabin for Gurista missions. Yes. A kronos will have it's mission where it will be ideal. Not that I can come up with any right now though. No-one claimed it ever to be 2-3 times better than the kronos, just that it is substantially better. On the note of the Guristas Extravaganza, all I can really recall is lots and lots of jamming. I also presume said time includes full travel, loot and salvage? I sadly don't have any comparative missiontimes as of right now, I'll look into getting some whenever I'm really really bored again. Last I recall, Angel Extravaganza was done in just below 30 minutes, however there's been drastic changes to the mission and ships since then so it's pretty much null and void. Also to be noticed, when - as the question was placed here - it's Kronos versus Golem, taking the few missions the kronos excels in and arguing the kronos point through them is a pretty moot point. Try instead grabbing the worst missions for both boats, or better yet a median income for isk/hour. Like most people have said, the golem isn't even THAT fast if you want to speedrun missions, the CNR is in most cases better, let alone picking specific ships for specific missions. That said, I know of no or very few missions the Kronos would do faster than the domi, if you do please enlighten me. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 45608
NoNah	Posted - 2009.10.15 15:00:00 - [39] Edited by: NoNah on 15/10/2009 15:01:08 Originally by: Fuazzole Originally by: NoNah Worth mentioning is: Alpha in missions is a bad thing. It means slower rate of fire, which together with dps is all that really matters. Yes, alpha is awesome if you can remove a battleship in 2 volleys and the battleship survives _exactly_ 2 volleys. If it would've survived 1.5 volleys, you'd be way better of with something that puts out half your volley damage under same dps. Yeah I go by this to Something no ones seems to get with the Palabin; Ungroup your guns <- Decreases Volly If 1-3 of your 4 guns were enuf, you have just lost DPS from the other guns. Use Mega Beam II Why, becuase you get to fit an Aerator II rig resulting in MORE dps then tachyons (tach's can't fit Aerator unless tanking with a medium rep) Also, Mega Beam damage comes in smaller vollys, also a good thing. Pretty sure the volley is shortened by a relative amount if your target dies prematurely. So if only 3 guns are used, the entire group will be available 25% sooner. Not entirely sure this change made it through, but I know there was some talk about it. As for the mega beam vs tachyons... use pulses. The dps of tachyons or greater, but much higher rate of fire and tracking. I keep iterating it, but the kronos is crap mostly because it's the only marauder that can't use it's short range guns viably. Originally by: Cpt Farnham So is it just the case that the range of blasters sucks even with t2 ammo, resulting in the Kronos needing to use rails? Yes. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 713964


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