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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:38:00 -
[1]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=119472&page=1
Seeing as how people not in Shiva test server generally dont read the shiva discussion forum, I thought I would post the link here as I think it is a critical issue to be dealt with.
The question is, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe. This can only mean that people will be able to locate you and warp to you. Consider the impact this will have on running combat missions in 0.4 and below when pirates can warp in on your location.
link URLified for easy redirection -Omniscience
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:38:00 -
[2]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=119472&page=1
Seeing as how people not in Shiva test server generally dont read the shiva discussion forum, I thought I would post the link here as I think it is a critical issue to be dealt with.
The question is, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe. This can only mean that people will be able to locate you and warp to you. Consider the impact this will have on running combat missions in 0.4 and below when pirates can warp in on your location.
link URLified for easy redirection -Omniscience
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
sableye
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:39:00 -
[3]
agent missions in .4 and below were never supposed to be safe anyway.
If pirates can find you then you can find them.
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:39:00 -
[4]
agent missions in .4 and below were never supposed to be safe anyway.
If pirates can find you then you can find them.
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Book
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:41:00 -
[5]
And in my experience, I've had to try to ***** a pirates safespot much more then they have had to try to ***** mine.
I'm all for the system scanning changes. Finally, you can take the wind of smacktalk from a safespot.
"They sharpen their tongues like swords, and aim their words like deadly arrows" |
Book
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:41:00 -
[6]
And in my experience, I've had to try to ***** a pirates safespot much more then they have had to try to ***** mine.
I'm all for the system scanning changes. Finally, you can take the wind of smacktalk from a safespot.
"They sharpen their tongues like swords, and aim their words like deadly arrows" |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:48:00 -
[7]
This change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
 Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:48:00 -
[8]
This change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: sableye
agent missions in .4 and below were never supposed to be safe anyway.
If pirates can find you then you can find them.
I dont think its productive introducing the danger of a battleship busting in on your mission regularly. As for the smacktalking pirates, remember they can use the gear as well. Say goodbye to any missions in 0.4 unless you have the support of a fleet.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: sableye
agent missions in .4 and below were never supposed to be safe anyway.
If pirates can find you then you can find them.
I dont think its productive introducing the danger of a battleship busting in on your mission regularly. As for the smacktalking pirates, remember they can use the gear as well. Say goodbye to any missions in 0.4 unless you have the support of a fleet.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
This change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
Right. But since people who are lower on the experience level wont have access to that kind of resources or skill, they will be screwed.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 21:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
This change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
Right. But since people who are lower on the experience level wont have access to that kind of resources or skill, they will be screwed.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:04:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Say goodbye to any missions in 0.4 unless you have the support of a fleet.
Yes thats right every system, every agent runner will be permacamped by 1000s of pirates non stop forever. No one will ever do missions again in fact. No doubt the servers will close within days of these changes.
Is CCP shy about nerfing things?NO. Are they shy about nerfing pirates?absolutly not. If these changes are too good for pirates changes will be made.
This is not armageddon here.
______________
Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:04:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Say goodbye to any missions in 0.4 unless you have the support of a fleet.
Yes thats right every system, every agent runner will be permacamped by 1000s of pirates non stop forever. No one will ever do missions again in fact. No doubt the servers will close within days of these changes.
Is CCP shy about nerfing things?NO. Are they shy about nerfing pirates?absolutly not. If these changes are too good for pirates changes will be made.
This is not armageddon here.
______________
Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
Araviel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Derisor
, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe.
that is how cloaking modules will become usefull 
EPIC Recruitment post
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Araviel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Derisor
, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe.
that is how cloaking modules will become usefull
EPIC Recruitment post
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Araviel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:30:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Araviel on 28/10/2004 22:33:02
Originally by: Araviel
Originally by: Derisor
, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe.
that is how cloaking modules will become usefull
Quote:
Originally by: RollinDutchMastersThis change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
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Right. But since people who are lower on the experience level wont have access to that kind of resources or skill, they will be screwed.
basic cloaks isnt very hard to get, and if you cant afford them then you shouldnt be flying around in unsecure space in the first place, its like flying a frigg in 0.0 whitout a MWD
EDIT: is the forum playing tricks on me or am i drunk?
EPIC Recruitment post
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Araviel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:30:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Araviel on 28/10/2004 22:33:02
Originally by: Araviel
Originally by: Derisor
, with the proposed system scanning, safe spots are no longer so safe.
that is how cloaking modules will become usefull
Quote:
Originally by: RollinDutchMastersThis change means that standard pirate equpiment for low-sec will now include a cloaking device, and that is all it means. However, since you cant use a cloaking device while youre fighting a mission spawn, guess who gets the big advantage from this one?
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Right. But since people who are lower on the experience level wont have access to that kind of resources or skill, they will be screwed.
basic cloaks isnt very hard to get, and if you cant afford them then you shouldnt be flying around in unsecure space in the first place, its like flying a frigg in 0.0 whitout a MWD
EDIT: is the forum playing tricks on me or am i drunk?
EPIC Recruitment post
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:56:00 -
[19]
I think you are drunk if you claim that no one should leave 0.5 unless they can get a cloak and that they are easy to get. No person new to this game could manage that in less than a month. Before that, there will be a NEED to go to 0.4 because most of the level II agents are not hanging out in 1.0.
As for the "thousands" of pirates camping people in missions, it doesnt take thousands. But pirates sitting on gate camps bored will likely say "lets jump over to 0.4 and gank some newbs." If you dont think they would do that then you are just nieve.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 22:56:00 -
[20]
I think you are drunk if you claim that no one should leave 0.5 unless they can get a cloak and that they are easy to get. No person new to this game could manage that in less than a month. Before that, there will be a NEED to go to 0.4 because most of the level II agents are not hanging out in 1.0.
As for the "thousands" of pirates camping people in missions, it doesnt take thousands. But pirates sitting on gate camps bored will likely say "lets jump over to 0.4 and gank some newbs." If you dont think they would do that then you are just nieve.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Remliel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:06:00 -
[21]
Given you'll need SEVERAL people with the module that will do system scanning to perform this function (I believe Ov said this is going to work on a triangulation function) as well as time and possibly even skills, all you really need to do is just have multiple safespots, or one really, really far one (Ex: Use an indy to make it). Then all you have to do is warp around between them.
The only thing this is going to hose are the people who park Armageddons. 
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Remliel
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:06:00 -
[22]
Given you'll need SEVERAL people with the module that will do system scanning to perform this function (I believe Ov said this is going to work on a triangulation function) as well as time and possibly even skills, all you really need to do is just have multiple safespots, or one really, really far one (Ex: Use an indy to make it). Then all you have to do is warp around between them.
The only thing this is going to hose are the people who park Armageddons.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:29:00 -
[23]
Pirates already know all the mission points, so there's really no change. Also, Oveur hinted there would be a module or skill involved and you need 3 people to triangulate. Most pirates aren't going to bother with the time involved in finding safespots with system scanning when they can just go to belts and gates. Also, with all the stations in low sec compared to 0.0, it's not too hard to dock if you run up against them. Or you can just equip an MWD and zip to the gate if you get chased.
So all in all, not much is changing.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:29:00 -
[24]
Pirates already know all the mission points, so there's really no change. Also, Oveur hinted there would be a module or skill involved and you need 3 people to triangulate. Most pirates aren't going to bother with the time involved in finding safespots with system scanning when they can just go to belts and gates. Also, with all the stations in low sec compared to 0.0, it's not too hard to dock if you run up against them. Or you can just equip an MWD and zip to the gate if you get chased.
So all in all, not much is changing.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: F'nog
Pirates already know all the mission points, so there's really no change. Also, Oveur hinted there would be a module or skill involved and you need 3 people to triangulate. Most pirates aren't going to bother with the time involved in finding safespots with system scanning when they can just go to belts and gates. Also, with all the stations in low sec compared to 0.0, it's not too hard to dock if you run up against them. Or you can just equip an MWD and zip to the gate if you get chased.
So all in all, not much is changing.
Well if that is the case then it might already be handled, but its too bad the gangers dont play at all on shiva. If the problem isnt there then fine. Discussion is for solving potential problems before they become a problem.
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.10.28 23:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: F'nog
Pirates already know all the mission points, so there's really no change. Also, Oveur hinted there would be a module or skill involved and you need 3 people to triangulate. Most pirates aren't going to bother with the time involved in finding safespots with system scanning when they can just go to belts and gates. Also, with all the stations in low sec compared to 0.0, it's not too hard to dock if you run up against them. Or you can just equip an MWD and zip to the gate if you get chased.
So all in all, not much is changing.
Well if that is the case then it might already be handled, but its too bad the gangers dont play at all on shiva. If the problem isnt there then fine. Discussion is for solving potential problems before they become a problem.
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Lygos
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Posted - 2004.10.29 00:10:00 -
[27]
It's about time that the PvE agent runners lived with as much risk as the miners. It's not like you still have to sit still, so quit complaining. Right now all you face are the dangers of docking. Oooh skewy!
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.10.29 00:10:00 -
[28]
It's about time that the PvE agent runners lived with as much risk as the miners. It's not like you still have to sit still, so quit complaining. Right now all you face are the dangers of docking. Oooh skewy!
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Daakkon
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Posted - 2004.10.29 03:41:00 -
[29]
are you noobs complaining that pirates are gonna benefit from this?
hmmm lets recap whats been nerfed for pirates shall we?
first it was the 100% insurance so rarely anyone pays a ransom anymore for their ship only their pods
then there was sentry guns in .4 and under space
oh yeah then there was the criminal flagging system which makes us wait 15 ******* minutes
please cry a river it's about ******* time pirates get a change thats good for them
www.dark-cartel.com |
Daakkon
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Posted - 2004.10.29 03:41:00 -
[30]
are you noobs complaining that pirates are gonna benefit from this?
hmmm lets recap whats been nerfed for pirates shall we?
first it was the 100% insurance so rarely anyone pays a ransom anymore for their ship only their pods
then there was sentry guns in .4 and under space
oh yeah then there was the criminal flagging system which makes us wait 15 ******* minutes
please cry a river it's about ******* time pirates get a change thats good for them
www.dark-cartel.com |
Kildarin Farushna
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Posted - 2004.10.29 05:47:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Derisor
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
My mentality is fine thank you, And I playing on sisi, And I like it I dont give a **** about system scanning crab, I'll still kill the agents runners like I do now. Sound to me you got raped good in a belt doing missions .
____
->Lawless<-
>>>New Formula<<<
>>In your local 0.4 system soon<<
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Kildarin Farushna
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Posted - 2004.10.29 05:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Derisor
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
My mentality is fine thank you, And I playing on sisi, And I like it I dont give a **** about system scanning crab, I'll still kill the agents runners like I do now. Sound to me you got raped good in a belt doing missions.
____
->Lawless<-
>>>New Formula<<<
>>In your local 0.4 system soon<<
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.10.29 05:54:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Noriath on 29/10/2004 06:00:57
Just one question: If you can't warp while cloaked how does a cloak really help you? I mean great, you can sit in space and not be noticed, but what good does that do, if you are warping from gate to gate you pop out uncloaked after a warp, pirate starts targeting you and you can't recloak since you can't cloak while targeted as far as I know... 
I mean it's only gonna help the pirates because they can wait for you without you being able to see that they are in the system...
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.10.29 05:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Noriath on 29/10/2004 06:00:57
Just one question: If you can't warp while cloaked how does a cloak really help you? I mean great, you can sit in space and not be noticed, but what good does that do, if you are warping from gate to gate you pop out uncloaked after a warp, pirate starts targeting you and you can't recloak since you can't cloak while targeted as far as I know...
I mean it's only gonna help the pirates because they can wait for you without you being able to see that they are in the system...
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.10.29 06:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Remliel
Given you'll need SEVERAL people with the module that will do system scanning to perform this function (I believe Ov said this is going to work on a triangulation function) as well as time and possibly even skills, all you really need to do is just have multiple safespots, or one really, really far one (Ex: Use an indy to make it). Then all you have to do is warp around between them.
The only thing this is going to hose are the people who park Armageddons.
If this is the case, it's a big waste of time to implement, as pirates are doing this successfully allready. With I might add, RL skills and the scanner, not just clicking a button and select warp to.
Imo it's a shame to introduce system scanning to EVE.
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.10.29 06:00:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Remliel
Given you'll need SEVERAL people with the module that will do system scanning to perform this function (I believe Ov said this is going to work on a triangulation function) as well as time and possibly even skills, all you really need to do is just have multiple safespots, or one really, really far one (Ex: Use an indy to make it). Then all you have to do is warp around between them.
The only thing this is going to hose are the people who park Armageddons.
If this is the case, it's a big waste of time to implement, as pirates are doing this successfully allready. With I might add, RL skills and the scanner, not just clicking a button and select warp to.
Imo it's a shame to introduce system scanning to EVE.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2004.10.29 06:04:00 -
[37]
Well, you can wrp to a gate, cloak, approach, uncloak/jumpp fast if you have decent timing, and recloak on the other side. hell, with a covert ops cloak, you can be uncloaked for maybe a fraction of a second the entire time you are taking a trip through 0.0 if you are careful(i recently tried this, and it works, jsut takes timing when you are approaching gates). As for safe spots not being safe, ccp will almost have to do something about mission spawns, and safe spots, you can just get several, far apart, then make all sorts of BMs between them, and hop around a lot(if you're that commited to staying away from the rats).
------------------
Silver Night
Director - Production and Science
(\_/)This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature
(O.o)to help him on his way to World Domination.
(> <) |
Silver Night
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Posted - 2004.10.29 06:04:00 -
[38]
Well, you can wrp to a gate, cloak, approach, uncloak/jumpp fast if you have decent timing, and recloak on the other side. hell, with a covert ops cloak, you can be uncloaked for maybe a fraction of a second the entire time you are taking a trip through 0.0 if you are careful(i recently tried this, and it works, jsut takes timing when you are approaching gates). As for safe spots not being safe, ccp will almost have to do something about mission spawns, and safe spots, you can just get several, far apart, then make all sorts of BMs between them, and hop around a lot(if you're that commited to staying away from the rats).
------------------
Silver Night
Director - Production and Science
(\_/)This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature
(O.o)to help him on his way to World Domination.
(> <) |
Noriath
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Posted - 2004.10.29 07:15:00 -
[39]
A covert ops cloak only goes in a covert ops ship though, I was thinking more like Prototype cloak 1...
I think that reducing speed by 90% is a pretty big deal for having to uncloak if you want to warp - I mean the 15km from Warp to Gate with 10% speed on a battleship or indy would acctually take somewhere between 18-22 minuites whith such a cloak.
Can you cloak while an enemy is still trying to lock you as a target, or will that already make it impossible?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.10.29 07:15:00 -
[40]
A covert ops cloak only goes in a covert ops ship though, I was thinking more like Prototype cloak 1...
I think that reducing speed by 90% is a pretty big deal for having to uncloak if you want to warp - I mean the 15km from Warp to Gate with 10% speed on a battleship or indy would acctually take somewhere between 18-22 minuites whith such a cloak.
Can you cloak while an enemy is still trying to lock you as a target, or will that already make it impossible?
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.10.29 08:37:00 -
[41]
Frustrated pirate hunters blobs want to scan pirates at their safespot - and forget that scanning safespots will make piracy way to easy.
Cloaking devices and pure friggi-hunt-teams will be the answer.
Guys - use your brain before you demand making ganking easier. Pirates will use it!
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.10.29 08:37:00 -
[42]
Frustrated pirate hunters blobs want to scan pirates at their safespot - and forget that scanning safespots will make piracy way to easy.
Cloaking devices and pure friggi-hunt-teams will be the answer.
Guys - use your brain before you demand making ganking easier. Pirates will use it!
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Phios Phane
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Posted - 2004.10.29 09:10:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
That random assumption would appear to be the underlying concept of this entire post. Wild guesses as to how things are going to be without much acctual proof.
---------------------------
The Cold War, EVE style ...
[ 2004.10.17 10:04:18 ] Crystal DeAngelis
> is cos teh vietkong used littel groups and didnt get any lag |
Phios Phane
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Posted - 2004.10.29 09:10:00 -
[44]
Quote:
I just know the mentality of the ganker and they are a cowardice, cheap lot that get their rocks off by trying to **** people off.
That random assumption would appear to be the underlying concept of this entire post. Wild guesses as to how things are going to be without much acctual proof.
---------------------------
The Cold War, EVE style ...
[ 2004.10.17 10:04:18 ] Crystal DeAngelis
> is cos teh vietkong used littel groups and didnt get any lag |
Omniscience
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Posted - 2004.10.29 10:14:00 -
[45]
Please do not crosspost threads. Thankyou.
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Omniscience
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Posted - 2004.10.29 10:14:00 -
[46]
Please do not crosspost threads. Thankyou.
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