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Character traded for dirty isk, negative wallet?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:32:00 - [1] I recently sold one of my rather high sp (40mil ish) alts for a decent amount of isk. With the isk that i recieved from the sale i then bought a slighly lower SP character (30mil). Being left with a rather large amount of isk i start spending it at ships etc. After about 1 week i see my wallet flashing when logging in and notice the balance is about 2bil short. In the journal i see 2 entries from a GM reversing earlier transactions. Since i recieved no message regarding this i petition it and after a while i recieve a message stating that the isk was dirty and that dirty isk is bad. It also references the EULA 7B. Quote: B. Selling Items and Objects You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game. Now maybe i can't read properly but to me it says dirty isk = bad, dont do it or else... So basically im left with 2bil isk less and the poor guy that sold the character to me is left with 1 less character, 20Ç transfer fee less and no isk to show for it. I understand they want to fight RL isk trading and i fully support that but it should not punish the people playing the game as intended and following the rules. In general this really puts me off trading characters ever again since i can't ever know the isk i recieve isnt bought from an illigal source. Basically you gamble your character and your RL money (paying for the transfer) whenever selling a character. I guess im ranting now but im rather ****ed at loosing 2bil because some jerk bought isk online instead of playing the game!
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:38:00 - [2] So if I find a meta 14 cap recharger and leave it on an open contract for 4b and an isk buyer happens to buy it from me, I will lose both the cap recharger and the isk? That does seem kinda wrong. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor So if I find a meta 14 cap recharger and leave it on an open contract for 4b and an isk buyer happens to buy it from me, I will lose both the cap recharger and the isk? That does seem kinda wrong. I think when it is items the GM's simply give back the item to the seller, however it is harder with characters since then they need to give a refund on the transfer fee. Not sure about them giving the items back tho, never had it happen to me.

CCP Diagoras C C P	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:47:00 - [4] I would suggest waiting for a petition response regarding your issue. Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor So if I find a meta 14 cap recharger and leave it on an open contract for 4b and an isk buyer happens to buy it from me, I will lose both the cap recharger and the isk? That does seem kinda wrong. No, we don't reverse legitimate transfers. _______________ CCP Diagoras Research and Statistics

Essque tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:49:00 - [5] If they won't give you back the ISK, they should give you back your sold char, the 20Ç transfer fee, and ban the guy that paid you dirty ISK. You did nothing wrong, so they should revert everything to the initial status, minus the ISK you've spend for your new char and ships. Assuming your story is accurate, that is. I would escalate the petition and demand just that.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:51:00 - [6] pretty sure last time I saw a case like this the gm came into the thread to say they did reverse their earlier decision as the character had been transfered. so yes best course of action is to keep on with the petition.
Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 16:52:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Diagoras I would suggest waiting for a petition response regarding your issue. Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor So if I find a meta 14 cap recharger and leave it on an open contract for 4b and an isk buyer happens to buy it from me, I will lose both the cap recharger and the isk? That does seem kinda wrong. No, we don't reverse legitimate item trades, even if the ISK was ill-gotten. The person who bought the ISK will be punished, not the person trading with them. Not sure if the response i got was the final one, but it didn't seem like there would be a followup. I have already replied to the petition tho. Just out of curiosity, what is the general policy on this? Is it like you said about item trades, that you do not reverse it, or does different rules apply to character trading.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:17:00 - [8] If the PREVIOUS owner of your character bought the "dirty ISK" and they MISTAKENLY punished you instead after the character transfer, as soon as they check that the things are the way you say they are, they will revert the "punishment" and you'll get the ISK back. _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Akita T If the PREVIOUS owner of your character bought the "dirty ISK" and they MISTAKENLY punished you instead after the character transfer, as soon as they check that the things are the way you say they are, they will revert the "punishment" and you'll get the ISK back. Its rather the other way around, i sold a character and the isk i recieved for the character (traded according to the rules) was revoked due to (i assume) the buyer having bought the isk. I really hope you are right tho.

GM Horse	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:35:00 - [10] Edited by: GM Horse on 23/10/2009 17:35:18 We do not punish those who engage in any sort of legitimate trade with fishy players. If you sell a item to a fishy player, and receive for that item ISK which was illegitimately gained, we would not punish you in any way. You couldn't have known that the ISK wasn't fairly gained - Punishing you would be rather unfair (and pretty daft, too). The evildoer would however be punished. Judging by your description of events, we should have this all sorted out rather quickly.


Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 17:45:00 - [11] Originally by: GM Horse Edited by: GM Horse on 23/10/2009 17:35:18 We do not punish those who engage in any sort of legitimate trade with fishy players. If you sell a item to a fishy player, and receive for that item ISK which was illegitimately gained, we would not punish you in any way. You couldn't have known that the ISK wasn't fairly gained - Punishing you would be rather unfair (and pretty daft, too). The evildoer would however be punished. Judging by your description of events, we should have this all sorted out rather quickly. Ok, thank you for the reply! Feels good to know that as long as one sticks to the rules, one wont be punished. The reply i got from the GM in the petition was that i was guilty, so i hope a deeper investigation can be performed, i supplied dates from when chatlogs can be found and also the thread of the character sale.
wickedpheonix Caldari Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division	Posted - 2009.10.23 18:08:00 - [12] What are people paying for with that $20 transfer fee anyhow? How long does it take to determine if a set of isk is illegitimate? If the time it takes to verify isk is short or even automated and the amount of character trades happening per day is low, it seems to me like isk should be verified before every character trade - otherwise you'd have to go through an absolute ton of reversal steps in order to actually punish using illegitimate isk for character transfer without going to the extreme of banning the transferred character/wiping stats and assets etc.
Tajwel Kura	Posted - 2009.10.23 18:18:00 - [13] I had something similar happen to me. I purchased a character that somebody else was using to purchase ISK, so one day I log on and find that it is in negative balance. But I petitioned and the issue was resolved and ISK was returned back to me. What you have to do is write a petition and while you are writing it put yourself in place of a GM who is going to have to read it. Meaning imagine you have hundreds of petitions coming in every week and you have to make sense of them all and serve just treatment. So if you write a petition just pounding your fist all over it, start going over how your feel and how CCP sucks, just make it into one big ball of bitter words, that ain't of much help to the person who is going to read it. Most likely he or she won't grasp what has happened and will send you a coined reply citing the EULA. But, if you describe what happened step by step sequentially, provide as much detail as you can provide, and give links to character sale threads, the GM will get it very fast and you will have a much quicker resolution. Good luck
Zahidra Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.23 18:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Tajwel Kura I had something similar happen to me. I purchased a character that somebody else was using to purchase ISK, so one day I log on and find that it is in negative balance. But I petitioned and the issue was resolved and ISK was returned back to me. What you have to do is write a petition and while you are writing it put yourself in place of a GM who is going to have to read it. Meaning imagine you have hundreds of petitions coming in every week and you have to make sense of them all and serve just treatment. So if you write a petition just pounding your fist all over it, start going over how your feel and how CCP sucks, just make it into one big ball of bitter words, that ain't of much help to the person who is going to read it. Most likely he or she won't grasp what has happened and will send you a coined reply citing the EULA. But, if you describe what happened step by step sequentially, provide as much detail as you can provide, and give links to character sale threads, the GM will get it very fast and you will have a much quicker resolution. Good luck Now that i think about it might have been slightly annoyed when writing the initial petition, i tried to be polite but i probably got off as a bit aggresive and was ranting more then i was describing the issue. As i work in a similair positions as the GM's i really should have put more thought into it and described the issue rather then complaining about it. Hopefully my additions will be more clear for the GM's. Thanks for the reply btw.
Galtako	Posted - 2009.10.23 20:01:00 - [15] Edited by: Galtako on 23/10/2009 20:02:10 So what's to stop me from creating two accounts with GTCs, and on one buy 4b in isk and on the other contract an item (that's worth 1b or so) then getting the isk buyer to accept the contract? You'll ban the isk buyer, but I would still have 4b. Please don't ban me:)
Pseudo Sasaya	Posted - 2009.10.23 20:58:00 - [16] Hrm. So is forum posting the way to get these issues resolved? An old corp-mate of mine got swept up in 'unholy rage' and was basically told 'sorry, no escalation, no petition, no justification, no recourse, no more response'.
Tian Nu	Posted - 2009.10.23 23:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Tian Nu on 23/10/2009 23:01:53 Originally by: GM Horse We do not punish those who engage in any sort of legitimate trade with fishy players. If you sell a item to a fishy player, and receive for that item ISK which was illegitimately gained, we would not punish you in any way. You couldn't have known that the ISK wasn't fairly gained - Punishing you would be rather unfair (and pretty daft, too). The evildoer would however be punished. Judging by your description of events, we should have this all sorted out rather quickly. what the man say just don't petition CCP under open bar hour.


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