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Riame
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Posted - 2009.10.28 16:05:00 -
[1]
We often see grav/ladar sites spawning next door, and have been mulling over the logistics involved in getting them without crashing the wormhole. Assume 2Bn kg space for the wormhole, and play it safe. I'm hoping for some feedback as to the feasibility or means to improve this operation;
1. 2x Battleships go over fitted for combat. They clear the site. (Wormhole mass is now -200M kg or so)
2. Orca follows with two Hulks/dessies/iteron 5 in hold and the BS pilots either leave their ships there and hop into hulks/dessies, OR, just refit for mining. (Wormhole mass is now -450M or so)
3. Additional hulk pilots fly over wormhole, some in pods to use the hulk/dessies/itty (Wormhole mass is now about -500M).
4. Mining into Orca, with trucks making trips back and forth from the home POS to the Orca, bringing ~25-30k worth of ore each trip and hitting the wormhole for ~10M kg each trip. Assuming 2x BSs and 1 Orca to bring back, and no additional BS traffic from the corp, the wormhole can allow in roughly 2.7M m3 worth of ore all told. Stashing 2x Hulks in the Orca allows a bit more security bringing stuff back.
Any suggestions for improving this, manuevers I didn't think of?
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2009.10.28 17:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Burnharder on 28/10/2009 17:22:17
 Quote:
Stashing 2x Hulks in the Orca allows a bit more security bringing stuff back.
I don't know, as with everything in Eve, the security you get is 1/3 less chance of getting caught, but if you are caught, you lose 3 ships instead of 1.
On your other stuff, you need to write up a plan and go through it properly. Wormhole stuff is really "plan" intensive; it's hard to be spontaneous. One thing your plan doesn't take into account is someone else collapsing the wormhole or using it. You need to make sure you've got a probe in there too.
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Riame
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Posted - 2009.10.28 18:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Riame on 28/10/2009 18:17:47
I meant security as in the wormhole won't collapse as easily. Obviously we'd have eyes on scanner and a scout.
And... as for a plan. Yes? That's why I posted my... plan... I was asking if people had anything to add to it? Keeping in mind that the other side of the mining op is our home system, and thus the likelihood of people traveling over the wormhole is small?
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Passin Through
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Posted - 2009.10.28 18:35:00 -
[4]
We have done some mining in other worm holes.
Here is what we do:
We first scan the system to see if there is anyone there... or any POS's.
If there are POS's we leave system alone. If other ships... we scan down sigs to see what is there.
If the ship was a random one or there are no ships around we kill the sleepers in Ladar, Grav and any other sites we want to run. We then come back and get the salvage and all the gas.
The whole time doing this we are constantly scanning. If we are seeing no one on scan after getting the gas we will bring in 2 or more hulks with a boosting vulture or just have one of the miners boosting 10%. We do NOT bring in an Orca. It uses up too much mass and is a huge target and really too expensive to lose for nija mining.
We will have one alt in an Ity 5 or Bustard taking out 30,000m per load. He is constantly watching the hole to see what it's state of collapse is. Once the hole get to critical about to collapse we pull everyone out.
Hope this helps.
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Thelyias
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Posted - 2009.10.28 19:14:00 -
[5]
I would think either bring the hulks in the orca and then fit them in the system to save some mass and the same on the return trip. You could also refit the other ships that had cleared the mining/harvesting site and perhaps try and see how commandships bear up to the sleepers vs battleships with there higher mass taking up more WH stability and more signature making it easier for the sleepers to do more damage to you.
Again I guess you have to look at risk (of potentially losing the orca (450mil ish worth)+ other ships vs reward of whatever your mining/harvesting.
Prehaps also take a dedicated ew fitted scorp with you to lock down sleepers and any potential pvpers long enough for the other corp ships to escape.
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Smokin' Dragon
Holy Grail Construction
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Posted - 2009.10.28 23:41:00 -
[6]
plant medium pos and intensive minnig array
bring in barges to mine.
take out refined minerals
take down pos and retuen to empire
bring pos back to 1st wormhole
profit
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Letrange
Minmatar
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.10.29 16:01:00 -
[7]
If you don't want to crash the wormhole it's simple - rigged T1 haulers and for a boost go back to BC/Command ships instead of the orca. Do the math, you loose a bit of efficiency but you get much more ore out that way. The other option is the extended stay where you put up a mining camp tower with an orca and hope you can find a way out for the hauling you'll have to do.
Personally I prefer to simply nail all the ark in 3 sites and get a fresh neibour the next day and repeat the process. But that's me.
For the math impaired a hauler's wormhole transit efficiency can be measured by the volume of ore it can get out in a single transit divided by it's mass (doubled). Itty 5's tend to win. You need to double the mass because you're doing two transits per ore load.
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Letrange
Minmatar
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.10.29 16:12:00 -
[8]
incidentally all grav sites I've encountered (even core ones) can be cleared by a single battle cruiser. WTF are you sending in battleships for?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.10.29 16:47:00 -
[9]
I think some of the grav sites in Class 5/6 wormholes may spawn a battleship, but not sure since we aren't capable of those.
And I'd have to agree, the Orca really isn't an efficient ship for ore movement through wormholes. Even at max skill with rigs, you wind up with under 200,000 m3 of capacity for 250 million kilos of ship mass. If I remember correctly, an Iteron V with rigs can get about 38,000 m3 of capacity for about 12.5 million kilos of ship mass. Cargo mass ratio of the Orca is .8 to around 3 on the Itty; you have to make more trips but you can get a lot more through the wormhole using industrials than in an Orca. Deep Space Transports can be used too, depending, but they're a bit higher mass.
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Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Riame
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Posted - 2009.11.01 05:10:00 -
[10]
To reiterate, again, I'm not thinking of using the Orca to haul back and forth. That's what the haulers are for. I did an op today with 4 hulks, one of them swapping into an Occator after a while, and everything would have gone so much faster if we had been subject to the Orca's bonuses. Simpler too, as we spent about 4-8 minutes per rock getting situated.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Passin Through
boosting Vulture
Here's your answer. You can get (most of) the Orca's bonuses with a command ship. It's far less mass, more maneuverable, and stronger. Sure, you'll lose the 3% per level bonus of the Orca but you still have the gang links going. Any fleet command ship can run 3 at once.
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Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Joe Zalt
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.11.01 15:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Smokin' Dragon
plant medium pos and intensive minnig array
bring in barges to mine.
take out refined minerals
take down pos and retuen to empire
bring pos back to 1st wormhole
profit
This is how I'd do it.
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