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Jenshae Chiroptera
24
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Posted - 2011.09.19 10:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Personally, I think if people want to know my fits, they should have to scan my wreck, at the very least.
However, kill boards are motivating idiots to farm points. This means they are killing a lot of ships that can't shoot back or newbies. Which is hitting CCP in the pocket. Less newbies, less $$$.
So, break the kill mail function. Just have Losses and who shot you.  CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Russell Casey
Black Corsairs
4
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
But killmails are very important, otherwise I wouldn't be able to see how much isk I just missed out on because all the faction/t2 stuff burned up in the wreck. |

Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
2
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
You see, the killmails are the only way of keeping track of "score" in EVE ISK warfare. Removing them would remove a huge part of warfare of any sort.
Now, you say that people "farm points" by killing defenseless ships. I'm just gonna go on a limb here and say you have no idea how killboards actually work. Points are awarded for killing dangerous ship, often lots of points for killing class-up ships such as Cruiser vs Battleship and similar. Sitting in your overtanked Maelstrom, tanking sentries and popping the occasional hauler that jumps through nets you about 1 point a kill. Congrats. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
24
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
So ... only create loss mails?
That way, they can post it if they want. Also, if you API to be part of the kill boards and PvP then your whole list comes out and is real. Corps can just throw all their members to the wolves.
This leaves NPC newbies safer from farming. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
...or why not charge the player to get the killmail.
"You have 3 unclaimed killmails!" - Claim 3 x 500AUR Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
24
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nyio wrote:...
"You have 3 unclaimed killmails!" - Claim 3 x 500AUR
Awesome!  CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
2
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
ops saying and i agree that points for km's dont mean anything ingame.
But km's mean alot when it comes to metagaming.
What types of ships some one flys, where they fly & who they fly with, that's the kind of information alot of people don't like to give out.
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Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.19 11:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why not find a balance?
A balance between 'realistic' information that is given out and information that shouldn't be given out.
If I kill you realistically I know who you are, what ship you flew and if you're in a Corp (simple right click action gives you all that). But what fit you had? that shouldn't be there and can only be guessed upon from what survived in the wreck. I'm sure there can be a simple balance between available and hidden information that can realistically (whiners aside) strike a balance for both parties. Also information like who was in your squadron/fleet/who you were flying with is a debatable mention for the kill mail: technically I saw Joe, Bob and Smith flying around with Fred when I popped his capsule so that could be in the kill mail. On the other hand you technically didn't kill them.
ISK warfare is all good but I do believe if you want to know what someone is flying a scan should be the only way (blueprint sharing/asking aside).
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Jenshae Chiroptera
25
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Posted - 2011.09.19 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seraph Cruoris wrote: If I kill you realistically I know who you are, what ship you flew and if you're in a Corp ...
That makes sense but doesn't stop newbie farming.
Loss mail only + ( API only posts - for kill boards) can help with that. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
6
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Posted - 2011.09.19 13:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
if newbies are stupid enough to fly into low/null sec when they are not ready, they deserve to get popped. and i honestly couldnt care less about points, i just like seeing a history of what ive been able to kill and in what during my EVE carreer. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
42
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Posted - 2011.09.19 13:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your idea threads are really bad. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
25
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Posted - 2011.09.19 13:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Your idea threads are really bad.
Aww. You have a crush on me?  CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
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Posted - 2011.09.19 14:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Your idea threads are really bad. Aww. You have a crush on me? 
Interesting interpretation.
But really, stop posting. |

Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2011.09.19 14:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Your idea threads are really bad. Aww. You have a crush on me?  Interesting interpretation. But really, stop posting.
Get a room you two!  Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.09.19 15:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Players getting killmails isn't the problem
It's players farming killmails with gate camps, newbie baiting, miner, and missioner baiting, and suicide ganks.
There needs to be a change to the killmail system that would suggest to players to either wardec, go to low, or go to null.
It also needs to be changed to suggest to players to actually take risks in pvp, instead of just gate camping right off high sec.
The only suggestion that I can offer up to fix a small portion of this is no killmails are given in high sec for kills committed without a wardec.
This is to fight off suicide ganks, newbie baiting, missioner baiting, and miner baiting.
null sec is anything goes so any and all kills of any type should count.
Low sec is the true issue to fit into this. Perhaps only so many mail are given at a certain point during a certain duration.
In other words, if you're camping a gate, you'll only get so many killmails of the period of, lets say a week. If you kill more than so many ships at a point in a system, (you're camping the gate), then you will not be given any further killmails until you relocate and will not receive killmails while at that specific location again until the cycle runs up. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 15:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Players getting killmails isn't the problem
It's players farming killmails with gate camps, newbie baiting, miner, and missioner baiting, and suicide ganks.
There needs to be a change to the killmail system that would suggest to players to either wardec, go to low, or go to null.
It also needs to be changed to suggest to players to actually take risks in pvp, instead of just gate camping right off high sec.
The only suggestion that I can offer up to fix a small portion of this is no killmails are given in high sec for kills committed without a wardec.
This is to fight off suicide ganks, newbie baiting, missioner baiting, and miner baiting.
null sec is anything goes so any and all kills of any type should count.
Low sec is the true issue to fit into this. Perhaps only so many mail are given at a certain point during a certain duration.
In other words, if you're camping a gate, you'll only get so many killmails of the period of, lets say a week. If you kill more than so many ships at a point in a system, (you're camping the gate), then you will not be given any further killmails until you relocate and will not receive killmails while at that specific location again until the cycle runs up.
All unnecessary limitations on a sandbox game. |

DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2011.09.19 15:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:So ... only create loss mails?
That way, they can post it if they want. Also, if you API to be part of the kill boards and PvP then your whole list comes out and is real. Corps can just throw all their members to the wolves.
This leaves NPC newbies safer from farming. Do you want privacy? Possibly like the contracts system? Meaning, a private contract is kept between parties and no others can see the contents. Public is public.
So, before releasing your info to a public killboard, your settings can either allow or disallow public viewing killmails; only involved parties would see contents. Is that what you were going for with this idea?
|

Mirima Thurander
Deventer Exploration An Acquisition
6
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Posted - 2011.09.19 15:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would be happy with no kill mails at all, i know i killed the guy he knows i killed him, that's all i need to know.
If your good at killing people, people will soon learn who you are and to fear you, you don't need to go LOOK AT ALL MY LEET KILLZ!!
KMs are over rated, i lived in a WH for 6 months and got a few T3 kills did i post them hell no, can i prove i killed them now? Nope, do i care if people beleave me? Nope. |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.09.19 16:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I would be happy with no kill mails at all, i know i killed the guy he knows i killed him, that's all i need to know.
If your good at killing people, people will soon learn who you are and to fear you, you don't need to go LOOK AT ALL MY LEET KILLZ!!
KMs are over rated, i lived in a WH for 6 months and got a few T3 kills did i post them hell no, can i prove i killed them now? Nope, do i care if people beleave me? Nope.
Agreed, killmails are worth nothing to the players but bragging, and often times, it makes you look more pathetic
You were able to beat a missioner with a pvp ship? wow, that's almost like ratting, NOT CHALLENGING
you were able to kill a drake with a gate camp of 20 or more people? You're so good at nothing...
Point being, the killmail system actually messes up the sand box game play of eve.
There are players who bait, suicide, and camp solely for a killmail, which kills the sand box, because without killmails, that may not have happened.
Look, if you wanna brag about a kill, then make a kill that's worth filming. 3 frigs against a drake, worth filming.
5 bs's against a super carrier, worth filming.
23 ships with insta lock, scram, web, jam, damp, pop, and pod against 1 drake isn't worth filming.
Basically, NO MORE KILLMAIL SYSTEM. If ya wanna brag about a kill then make sure it's something worth watching.. Otherwise your bragging means crap to me and everyone else in eve. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 16:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
OP is updated. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 17:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:OP is updated.
This still doesn't alliviate killmail farming with gate camps.
I consider this to be a problem because these players are taking little to no risks.
Missioners take more risks running lvl 4 missions than gate camps do.
They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.
If a player wants to keep track of every kill they have been involved in then they should film every kill they get involved in and save it, or post it on youtube.
Perhaps you can post these videos to the "I was there" eve thing and other players can comment on how your gate camp kills are weak and should be removed from the video archives.
Influencing players to farm killmails is actually changing to "sand box" theme of eve.
Instead of what happens, happens. It's telling the players, go out and make something happen. That's not how sand boxes work. You react to the sand box, the sand box reacts to you. Killmails have changed this.. You are no longer reacting to the sand box, but instead, making attempts for a reward outside of the sand box that changes the overall game play of eve. That's outiside involvement and takes away from the sand box |

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
4
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Posted - 2011.09.19 17:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
You know, everyone is going the long way around on this issue.
Just make it plain for everyone to understand why you do not want kill mails.
Eve is too harsh and cold for you, and as sheeple, it makes you feel bad.
|

Zarnak Wulf
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.09.19 17:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
The real problem is the point values of some ships. Manage to get that Dramiel in a Thrasher or Wolf? 30 points for you! Lose to a Dramiel in the same ships? 50 to 80 points lost! Battleships are worth 400 points but HACs are only 130.... You get the idea. |

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 17:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:The real problem is the point values of some ships. Manage to get that Dramiel in a Thrasher or Wolf? 30 points for you! Lose to a Dramiel in the same ships? 50 to 80 points lost! Battleships are worth 400 points but HACs are only 130.... You get the idea.
Point values are for the individual kill board software developers to determine, it's not a CCP thing.
Quote: They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.
They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely.
The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk. |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 18:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Quote: They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.
They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely. The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk.
I didn't say no more gate camps...
What I was stating is that the killmail system is the sole purpose for a lot of kills that are make in eve to include gate camp kills.
This is effecting the outcome of a sand box.
Remove the killmail system all together and there would probably be many things in eve that would change.
Perhaps instead of farming killmails through pirating, players would actually pick a choose battles worth fighting.
The killmail system is effecting the "sand box" of eve. Players aren't getting involved in pvp combat in a manner meant to benefit themselves, their corp, or their alliance, but are instead just killing for killmails. |

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
4
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Posted - 2011.09.19 18:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Messoroz wrote:Quote: They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.
They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely. The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk. I didn't say no more gate camps... What I was stating is that the killmail system is the sole purpose for a lot of kills that are make in eve to include gate camp kills. This is effecting the outcome of a sand box. Remove the killmail system all together and there would probably be many things in eve that would change. Perhaps instead of farming killmails through pirating, players would actually pick a choose battles worth fighting. The killmail system is effecting the "sand box" of eve. Players aren't getting involved in pvp combat in a manner meant to benefit themselves, their corp, or their alliance, but are instead just killing for killmails.
So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?
It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.
|

Jenshae Chiroptera
28
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Posted - 2011.09.19 19:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Baaldor wrote: So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?
It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.
*Watches the point zoom past Baaldor.*
I post my losses. I post only one kill mail. All the rest I blame my corp or alliance.
I have no problem with PvP and do it frequently. It just irritates me beyond belief that there is these newbie killers, who are not doing it for any gain but to fluff up a point system. Sure, if you are desperate enough to come and shoot my mining ship for ISK do that. Heck, if you need the ISK you can just chase me off and take the cans of ore.
However, shooting mining ships, indys and other things that help fuel this game just for a few meaningless points? That is wrong.
Kill mails make screwed up motivations. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
4
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Posted - 2011.09.19 19:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Baaldor wrote: So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?
It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.
*Watches the point zoom past Baaldor.* I post my losses. I post only one kill mail. All the rest I blame my corp or alliance. I have no problem with PvP and do it frequently. It just irritates me beyond belief that there is these newbie killers, who are not doing it for any gain but to fluff up a point system. Sure, if you are desperate enough to come and shoot my mining ship for ISK do that. Heck, if you need the ISK you can just chase me off and take the cans of ore. However, shooting mining ships, indys and other things that help fuel this game just for a few meaningless points? That is wrong. Kill mails make screwed up motivations.
No i get the point, you just dd not like my response because it does not meet your expectations.
As far as motivations, I can tell you, that the initial motivation is to pewpew, THEN after, it is to fapfap. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
28
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Posted - 2011.09.19 19:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Baaldor wrote: No i get the point, you just dd not like my response because it does not meet your expectations.
As far as motivations, I can tell you, that the initial motivation is to pewpew, THEN after, it is to fapfap.
Where is the challenge in what they do? If there is no risk, then what is the point? No rush, no thrill. It is all just being a jerk. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |

Joss56
Unleashed' Fury Trinova
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 19:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Not sure newbies are lke pokemon km's but in what I'm concerned:
Low sec "X" newb ship = scout | cyno alt | trap
Real newb? -10% chances it is one.
Do I care to have the KM? -I really don't GF about it.
Often I just don't care when I cross newb ships but already lost stuff to a cyno alt buddies, will I continue to not shoot them? -maybe, but chances are that i'll finaly get to the point : not blue shoot, newb or whatever. |
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